Phenom,

Yep 757 based at LBA,NCL,MAN and EMA at the moment with another 75 going to EMA for next summer. Rumor has it another 75 is making its way up north too, the talk on the town at the moment is either EDI or NCL!

If the company are going to take cadets one of the positives as far as the company goes would be to bond them in for 3 years, which is the current time span the company adopts. Think this is one of the problems facing the company at the moment as most of the sponsored guys they took from CTC have finished there bond, hence a load of guys buggering off to the sandpit. I guess the company will want a certain amount of security for the next couple of years with regards to crewing levels and bonding would be one way to achieve this.

Guys who have joined the company with a type rating already in hand only get bonded for a year!

Interesting that they are asking what you expect to get payed! At the moment there seems to be quite a bit of discontent about pay and our general T&C's here, mind you there always is I guess, no matter where you work!

oh and by the way, we are currently going through a statuary recognition process with BALPA, hopefully in the long run this might help us all...fingers crossed heh....:hmm:

Filled in application Monday 30th, checked it again and sent it in Tuesday, phone call yesterday, telephone interview done today the system works perfectly.

Good luck to all those who have applied :ok:

Rostering
 

Hi chaps,

Could anyone enlighten me as to whether days off are fixed once rostered or can they be changed after the roster has been published? Is it generally random days on and off or is there a tendancy for larger blocks of working days followed by larger blocks of days off, albeit not necessarily in any pattern?

Thanks in advance.

Regards

KD :ok:

Good luck to you!
Can you please say what experience you have?
:ok:

...and are you 737 or 757 rated fastjet45?
Good luck!

KingDingaling,

You can request three Requested Days Off (RDO's) per month which once granted can not be changed as are any rostered days off once the roster is published. The roster is totally random comes out approx three weeks in advance and generally quite a lot of standby's, which of course they can either change to duty days before hand or obviously just call you out on.

This summer season haven't had too many changes or stand-by call outs but that is due to us being severely under-crewed this summer and being on max hours for the entire summer period.

No not rated but plenty of jet time.

NM,

Totally agree, I was not insinuating that Rostering or Crewing were in anyway out to screw us, but as you said they are under pressure from above and as we have seen this summer, things have been fairly difficult out on the front line due to crewing levels and at the end of the day they can only plan and execute with the resources they have at there disposal.

However, things like early to lates with min rest on max hours has been occurring with a far greater regularity this summer. End result, pissed off, over worked and knackered (but NOT fatigued!:=) crew:{ ..dare I suggest underpaid too:ooh:

Rostering
 

Monkeynutz thanks for the reply - very useful.

No worries :ok:

But i assume that Jet 2 will pay for experienced FO's type training costs??

wouldn't hold your breath...

Hi guys,

Applied on the 24th of August, as did quite a few.
I was wondering if any non-rated Experienced Jet time F/o here were called yet for telephone interview?

It seems to be mostly low hour guys getting the call.
Still waiting for the call, any of you lot in the same boat?

My present experience is around 3000TT and 2500 ERJ 145 jet.

Any info appreciated!

WB

online form on 25th got email reply.
Telephoned on 31st to say interview on 1st
got call today for assesment next Friday.
Seems to work fine for me??
However the form online stuff was a nightmare, maybe part of the selection.

Who is going to apply to Jet 2 with their appalling terms and conditions apart from your 200 hour wonder cadets? Anyone with a little experience and some common sense is heading East:ugh:

This is just Jet 2 testing the water yet again to see how many muppets there are out there.

Take this recruitment for what it is, a potential job. Enjoy the process and see what it turns up for you. We're a happy bunch when not messed about by management, the crews at all the bases are great. There's the odd company Nob who kisses butt but we all know who they are and laugh at them with little mercy!

My only advise is:-

Apply, be assessed, be interviewed and do the sim but DO NOT sign up for anything contractual rashly, see which of the other better paid, equipped operators are going to recruit and then apply to them as the market is going to be bouyant and you may get the job you really want, as a poster has already stated 'many are heading east'!!!.

I'm of the opinion that Jet2 are either doing a tree shake to see who on the market or have plans for expansion and are keen to sign up by contract the best of whats out there at a cheap rate on a crap contract.

That of course unless your keen to live at Manchester or Leeds!!!

mona lot, NM and tellyavib,

Spot on....

sure thing, same old same old. three years running this has been going on

Whats been going on three year years running?

Tellyavib:

I think that post is probably spot on to be honest, Jet2 are pre-empting what a lot of other carriers are going have to do (ie.RECRUIT) and just getting in early to see who bites.

I think it would be a little hasty to sign up to any crap contract if successful before seeing what else is on offer later in the year especially if you have experience etc...They'll soon improve it if enough don't sign up!!!

I applied on the 24th, got a conformation so presume all ok, have heard nothing since, TR on 737 with 1600+hrs. It appears they are contacting low hours or Non - TR at this point or maybe i haven't even made it through the paper sift, who knows..!

Good luck to all.

Dan 98
I also applied 24th, got a response and had the telephone interview Friday. TR on 757, 10,000+ hours so not just low houred guys getting the call. However, dismayed to learn that only the 70% contract is on the table. Hopefully, as you say, there won't be any experienced takers and they'll have to improve. I worked it out that I'd be taking home about £1,000 a month less than what I was earning 10 years ago. It's ok only working 7 months a year but I have a 12 month a year mortgage to pay, I hope they get a poor uptake if only for the industry's sake.

Tomrosie,

Interesting to hear,maybe i haven't made the paper sift or don't have enough hours for a TR FO, early days though i guess. I expect with your hours and being 757 rated is more attractive maybe than 733 too.

The very fact that they are even asking would you be happy to accept a 70% contract and what would be an acceptable salary confirms they are testing the water and that they know what they are currently offering is !!!!!!!:E

I am currently on a contract that is due to end 30th of October, if Jet2 is 70% and they even offer me an interview I may as well just go back to my current employer next spring, better the devil you know!!

Lets hope things improve, for everybodies sake as i think most have 12 month mortgages, i know i do.....Think i'll be dusting down my HGV licence for the winter!:\

Cheers

Does anyone know what salary they'd be offering new type rated FOs?

So what is the going rate for a full time FO at Jet2????
Can someone give an indication then I will know what to say if Im asked about expected salary. I don't want to undercut myself.

cheers

mint

Full time type rated FO: 42K.
Full time type rated Captain: 67K.
No payscale.
No type rating: expect to have to pay for type rating upfront. Going rates were 20K for 737, 17K for 757.
Expect a lower probationary salary for 6 months (FO: 36K, Captain: 61K).
There is also minor duty pay and variable sector pay.
If you ask me, FO pay is average and Captain pay is low.

thanks Xwind, good post!

As a result of the policies that Tony initiated. Jet2 have been relegated to the floor. In this economic enviroment nobody will commit. What's worse is he's back rubbing salt into the wound

Thanks Crosswind exactly what Im looking for.
So how long can one expect to be on a 70% contract before given perm 100% contract?

Are you still effectively a Jet2 employee during the 30% of the year your not working? (understand its 7 months on and 5 off)

How is the salary paid, 7 months worth spread over 12?

Roughly how much per month does duty/sector pay add up to on average?


I think the first 6 months on 70% of 36K is very harsh and to be honest that would put a big strain on my financials, and if I was required to locate then I simply can't afford it. bugger:ugh:

mint

On the 70% deal Captain's take home around £2800/month & F/O's £1800/month during the Winter & about £350-£450/month more during the Summer. But I would also like to point out a couple of other relevant points to would be applicants that they should consider.

1) Don't rule out a 'Pay to Fly' scheme similar to EZY & a few others.

2) If your application is successful, DON'T post anything on Facebook or other Social Networking sites if you think the offer is 'crap' as you may get a 'Sorry, we don't want you. Here's a cheque in lieu of notice' letter as one poor sod found out earlier this year.

3) The 70% deal is for 7 months service during the peak season (April-Oct) with 5 months off during the lull (Nov-March) thereby shafting your chances of getting contract work as usual minimum terms are 6 month requirements.

4) You'll be flying antiquated B737-300's or B757's, maybe you should consider a more modern type, B737NG or Airbus.

5) Don't expect to make a career from the company if you're coming as an F/O. The newly elected, 'Ferrari driving' Head of the Crew Council who is responsible for negotiating Pay & other terms & conditions holds F/O's in such low regard, he said to a new F/O & Trainer on an aircraft handover, F/O's should be paid less as they are a transitory species!!!!

If you are one of the fortunate ones to receive an 'allowance from Mummy & Daddy' or have no Training debts to repay or have no mortgage & family to support then consider Jet2. However if you are one of the rest, look elsewhere. It's a great working atmosphere with excellent Trainers & fantastic Op's, Crewers, Rosterers & Engineers but that don't pay the bills.

Good luck whatever & wherever you choose.
:ok:

its a terrible deal. £1800 per month! You've gotta be desperate to take that.

I think I used to pay almost that much in tax and stoppages in my last job on a 733! It isn't a good deal, but if it get's you through until some better deals come round then all well and good. It's better than the £60 a week or so of job seekers allowance.

Remember that the 733 and the 757 are dead types. Boeing no longer produces them, and many airlines are chopping in old variants for newer as reporting in Flight's Global Airline Census a few weeks ago. A 73 NG rating is worth having with hours in the air too, but 733 experience is not in demand these days. If you have to pay for it Ryan Air might be a better place to spend it!

I dont think its so bad considering the way things are....70% is better than 0% which im getting now

Yes, it's better to earn money than nothing at all, BUT, that's not what's discussed here. You can't use that as an argument to this discussion as it's a different topic.

MW

Theres several diiferent discussions on here if you care to read through all the posts and I wasnt arguing like most people tend do on here I was stating a fact and my opinion if that ok with you.

Wow - £1800 a month for an FO :yuk:! Aviation in the UK is going down-hill fast, about time 2 fingers were stuck up to these employers.

Praying on the desperate...:=

If/when BA open their doors next April I hope these airlines are left high and dry. :ok:

Firestorm got it right....if you have decided to pay for the job (or M & D want you out the house yesterday) ...get something useful on your licence.

Too right, aviation in the UK is finished if your a pilot! Come to the ME. My Philippine house maid earns more than some pilots in the UK.:D

Turkish 777
 

So what would be too bad then? Even if out of work, what is the lower limit? This money is crap for this job and is not defensible. Do you genuinely not understand that statements like yours are exactly what these excuses for management feed upon?

The following figures are for a large and well known UK charter company, who operate within the same market and economy.

Year, Captain, Senior First Officer, First Officer
1 £78,035 £49,381 £38,038

(sorry can't seem to maintain formatting)

Now whilst they may not be achievable for everyone right now, they are at least what one should be aspiring to.

Jet2 not only want to pay at the very lowest end they want to pay £6000 less during probation and want to bond even type rated guys for what is mandatory training under JAR. Probation was always a period of "settling in" which allowed either side to give shorter than normal notice to terminate employement. Nothing whatever to do with paying less salary for the same job (unless you need a trainer to accompany you for the whole 6 months online which would be a tad unusual). It is just one more scam to claw back a few quid for them.

They are scum (the management, in case of doubt) and if anyone needs to join them due to no work at all, then of course that is understandable and their right, but for God's sake don't justify it by saying its not too bad.

Last year's recruitment:

No one knows what is in store for this year's recruits and as the advert is for any pilot, so long as he has an fATPL, the T&Cs could be of any combination imaginable.

Last year's recruitment drive specified type rated captains and first officers with minimum hours on type. The salaries for 100% contracts were as specified by Crosswind, post 156:

Captain: £67,000 p.a. approx.
Senior First Officer: £44,000 p.a. approx. (only after 2 years' service in JET2)
First Officer: £41,064 per annum

Compared to the salaries quoted by Starbear's post 171, then, the captains' salaries are lowish, as also the senior first officers', but the first officers' salaries are OK.

Last year the contract of employment offered was for working 7 months of the year, "summer season", and a "rest period" of 5 months. The salary offer for this contract was 70% of the salaries quoted above. So taking the first officer salary as an example, 70% of 41,064 pounds is equivalent to £28,744 per annum, which is paid over 12 months of the year, which equals £2,395 per month. Apart from the foregoing and during the summer working period and as stated by DADDY-HO in post 161, there are another £350-£450 approximately per month to be taken home for sector pay etc.

The ground training period, which lasts approximately 2 weeks did NOT fall within the Work Period (01 April-31 October), as specified above and took place in March during 2 weeks and was paid at 50% of the full time annual salary.
The bond for the ground training was for £6,000 but if you shared the SIM with another pilot it was reduced to £4,500 and the bond is for a period of 2 years.

The full 70% salary was paid with effect from the start of the work period on 1 April. After successfully completing the line training, which included 6 flights, 12 sectors in total and a final check on the 7th flight, there was a probationary period of two months, where JET2 or the employee could give each other one week's notice to quit. The normal 70% salary (£2,395 per month) was also paid during this period.



Comments:

1.
Bonding for the ground training is a bit cheeky but not unheard of in other companies. Normally it is for a lesser amount and for a period of 6 months but there are variations.
2.
JET2 almost close down in the winter months. They purchase outright older aircraft, which are cheaper and can store them in the winter without having to pay leasing costs. The company is seriously profitable.
3.
The employment contract is for 12 months of the year, so that the pilot's National Insurance is paid throughout the year.
4.
Working 7 months of the year is equivalent to working 58.333% of the year. So getting paid 70% of your annual salary for working 58.33% of the year gives you the advantage of 11.67%. This is not an unreasonable advantage since you have earned your money in the summer and getting it spread out over the year but it is still better than putting it into the bank to earn interest. There is the amount of flying hours over the summer 7 months to be considered, as well.
5.
The winter 'rest period' is not yours to do as you wish. Whatever employment you wish to undertake must be approved by JET2 in writing. Of course you ARE still employed by JET2 during your rest period, so you HAVE TO refer back to JET2 for whatever you want to do during "your" rest period. Stating specific limitations on possible employers and activities in the employment contract would be by far a fairer and more reasonable proposition.
6.
JET2 reserve the right to call on you to return to work, whenever they choose during your rest period. Again giving specific conditions to be met by JET2 would be by far a fairer and more reasonable proposition.

There are numerous arguments for and against the above contract but the best solution is to convert all 70% employment contracts into full time employment as soon as possible.

If last year there were type rated experienced pilots in the UK to be recruited on 70% contracts, this year the situation is changing substantially on a daily basis and by next year JET2 will probably need to make important changes to pilots' T&Cs to keep flying. The company is also introducing more and more destinations, which means more and more flying......

Couldn't agree with you more Starbear!!

Jet2 are obviously relying are desperate individuals, the more i hear i wish i hadn't wasted the time applying now as my answer to 70% would be NO and as a TR FO on the 737 my answer to a 2 year bond would be :mad:off!!

The position of FO is becoming more and more devalued everyday and until we stop accepting being shafted it will continue, they can't fly without us remember:ok:

Now is the time to say NO as the market is set to improve, if the company is seriously profitable as quoted by DjerbaDevil then I am sure they can find room for improvement if everyone says NO.......................

Personally I think the reason they are recruiting early is to get people on crap T&C's before the market improves.....

Market improving?
 

Sorry, can someone point me to the actual evidence of an improving job market in the UK please?

I can't see any improvement. Who else is recruiting?

Or, are we just "talking to make ourselves feel better"?

The economy is moribund. A double dip recession may be upon us. 600,000 well paid, previously secure public sector jobs are to be cut (sone of those people will never work again) and house prices are dropping again.

Feel good? Not to me.