Little prince. I'm moved to post here, which is something I usually avoid, 'cos your the first one that seems to be able to see the wood.
If only our (Hopefully) departed managers had you insight.

Wee Weazley Welshman
 

Apologies if that offended - I didn't mean it as a comment on either company in any sort of professionally comparable terms of any sort. I have mates with both, some who slag each off, and some who think each is a top operator. I merely meant to show the direction most likely to be taken by people who have the desire and the ability to move on.:ok:

Incidentally, I note iwht interest a previous post about numbers. That had actually crossed my mind - the fact that the total number of bacons exceeded considearbly the planned expansion. I have no idea how accurate those numbers are, but there does seem to be an imbalance. A realist may therefore presume that Jim and the lads will not be unhappy to see Baconeers ride away into the sunset, the more so because there will then be no possible redundancy costs.:rolleyes: This the real world gents, sh1t happens all the time, and we are collectively no different to train drivers or assembly line workes as far as the laws of economics work. The one thing we never ever do is take any action; that's the only thing I admire about BA, their pilots do, often, act together to protect their jobs and Ts/Cs. That's why they are, or were, the best in the industry. You watch how they make old Willie step backwards over the pension issue, I still don't think he's a believer, but he will be in six months! We had several opportunities to achieve a similar result, but we bottled it every time - that was one of the final reasons I jacked it in and moved here - there was never going to be any improvement and the writing (which had been on the wall almost from the start) was being outlined in red an highlighted electrically for all to see.
BTW again, out new Head of Training is another top bloke, ex Manx/BRAL, and very talented. Just shows that not all of us had our heads in the sand, and that there's a great life outside BACX/BACON.
I do hope people will see the realities.:bored:

If anything the new airline will be SHORT of pilots.
Flybe gets the a/c and the pilots flying them. It will need the pilots unless it plans to not fly the a/c. There are no extra pilots in BACon.

I notice my prev post about BA leaving the regions has passed without comment.

But I thought a lot of the new types are actually replacements for existing hulls? Not all, but a lot? I think most of us are too busy trying to get ANY sensible and coherent information about what is actually going to happen. I know three people who have been offered RJ course - only one has accepted, and I know one RJ guy who has accepted an Emb course. It all seems to depend who you speak to. Managers falling over themselves to tell you nothing at all - does anyone genuinely know who is going where? I would have thought that PH etc will have to stay where they are as terms of the AOC. In the same way, the Embs and Dashes are on BACON's AOC, Flybe can't just take them over. I would have thought that Hutch.Evans etc would need to remain in charge (!!!!!!) of all of these types in two different operations just to stay legal. An oddball situation - do we ever have anything else.

Brain fade is correct
 

your observations about the fate of the BA mainline employees in the regions ground handling operations is spot on.A deliberate attempt to get rid of all mainline employees in the regions,this following hot on the heels of the closure of the shuttle cabin crew outstations.T5 is BA's only interest,I feel the all the eggs in 1 basket will come to haunt them for one reason or another in this unpredictable world in which we now live.

B.E.A. and B.O.A.C.
 

Looks like the similar things that happened when B.O.A.C and B.E.A. joined together.:ugh: :ugh:

What is next on the cards with the 1st of January fast approaching with the first major step of the Flybe plan,:confused: :confused:

nobody knows yet GBALU!!!

"I notice my prev post about BA leaving the regions has passed without comment"

Not totally unnoticed - from the Edinburgh Evening Post:

"107 ground staff face the axe as BA sells off Capital routes
ALAN RODEN TRANSPORT REPORTER ([email protected])
SCORES of baggage handlers and check-in staff at Edinburgh Airport face being made redundant by British Airways.

Following the planned sell-off of the loss-making subsidiary BA Connect to rival Flybe, up to half of the 218 workers in the Capital could be laid off. The airline giant today announced a review of staffing levels at four regional airports - Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Manchester.

The sale of 15 Scottish routes means British Airways will not need as many ground staff at the airports. Some of the workers should be able to secure new jobs with Flybe, but dozens of others are likely to become unemployed.

A spokesman for the Transport and General Workers Union said it was too early to tell how many may be made redundant.

"It is hard to say what is going to happen. What we want is to make sure our members are fully informed of what is happening and that they are properly consulted."

He said the union was planning to hold meetings with Flybe over the jobs threat.

British Airway's operation from Edinburgh is set to be reduced to just flights to the three London airports, as well as Madrid and Rome.

BA Connect routes to Birmingham, Bristol, Hamburg, Manchester, Paris and Southampton will be taken on by Flybe.

Including London City, which will be retained by British Airways under a new subsidiary, these routes account for 53 per cent of its Edinburgh operation - suggesting nearly half of all staff could be surplus to requirements.

In Glasgow, 160 staff will be affected by the review, with 56 in Aberdeen and around 300 in Manchester. At Edinburgh, those affected all work on the check-in desks, or as baggage handlers and customer service liaison officers.

A spokesman for the airline said there would be a "significant impact" on ground operations as a result of the proposed deal.

"Up to the end of the transition period on March 25, there will be no changes," he said. "However, a significant proportion of ground-handling activity at these airports is driven by BA Connect operations. As a result, BA has launched a review of its regional ground-handling activity, which it hopes to conclude as quickly as possible. Senior managers will be visiting the four airports [to meet with staff] next week."

My own personal forecast on what will happen:

- Flybe is not interest in running two separate companies
- Flybe has no interest in moving any of the inherent costs from BAcon to Flybe.
- The whole of BAcon employees will be put under notice of redundancy.
- Positions will be offered in the new BA company and Flybe to everyone under notice - under Flybe or 'new BA' agreements.
- There will be no marriage of seniority lists etc. The only members of the workforce Flybe will consult with are those already employed by Flybe. BAcon crew will only be consulted on terms of redundancy.
- The new commands which would now appear in Flybe would have to be applied for by both Flybe FOs and any BAcon pilot.
- Pensions, flight tickets etc will be frozen at the point of redundancy from BAcon, under the current BAcon terms for ending of employment.
- BAcon crew will basically be forced into applying as their current type ratings are not in high demand at their current bases and the charter boys do not have any expansion plans for Summer
- Flybe cancel c. 30% of BAcon routes as being unprofitable even with Flybes costs.
-BA withdrawal from the regions and subcontract all work to third parties, as most of the Uk regions will have less BA flights than airports outside the UK.
- BA takes any new slot they can at LHR and move as much of the LGW longhaul operation to T5 as they can.
- All the new BA jobs will be based at LCY as a dual base with LHR

A personal view and it will be interesting over the next 6 months how much of this comes true.

nothing to do with thread:

thank you to the moderators for moving this back to rumours and news, it has appeared over the past year that if it is not BA then it is not news and moved. Wel done for recognising us mear mortals :-)

SWBKCB

Well, I'm glad.
There's been FA in the Herald not to mention Brum or Man press.

Pilots may (I'm one) be ok. Ground staff are totally screwed.

ALL BA STAFF AT EDI ARE FOR THE CHOP!

As for BA 'presence' in the 'regions'?

Apparantly a matter of supreme indifference to all.:hmm: :ugh: :rolleyes:

You were doing so well until you got to....

.....which is illegal under UK law. But then if you haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread then how are you to know that.:hmm:

Well, CM - is that why the 1992 letter of 'selection' for BA(EOG) from the DanAir 'pilot pool' began

"You have not been selected for redundancy"

Has the law changed?

Oh yes, many laws have changed / evolved since 1992.

and I'm still waiting for my TUPE transfer to Eastern Airways

Bonding
 

Anyone care to speculate what the position will be regarding bonding?

Lets face it, at some stage for the common good, BA Con will cease to exist and we will all be merged into one big (hopefully mainly happy, if everyone tries to get whats best and fairest for all..) family.

I guess at some stage in this process we will move to the Q400 (and for a lucky few) the E195, and our current bonds will become void. So what's the deal if you have the Q300 on your licence, which I imagine many of us have, but not current.

Do we need to take a full conversion course for the Q400, or is it just a differences course, which I guess would require a minimal bond. Also, could a new employer force us to take a fresh bond for the whole conversion if only a differences is required?

Not looking to stir the sh1te with this, just a genuine query.

I still hope that both pilot communities can pull together on this lumping together of what are two large airlines, and if BALPA, and the new management take a sensible view about building a stable long term alternative to the jet only LOCOs, we can all have a part of something different and exciting, hopefully without too much pain, for anyone. There is enough of that around for our ground services colleagues at the moment.

No one saw this coming, but at BA Con we knew something had to give, so some change was inevitable. Some of our folks will walk for whatever reason, and those that do good luck and be successful. For those on both sides of the fence that want to just see the dust settle and some meat put on the bones of the plan, please lets act like the professionals we are and avoid points scoring and barrier building. God knows we've suffered enough in the past from one side being played off against the other by the management, and you can guess who the only winners will be if thats the case.

Here's hoping for a new, aggressive and strong airline that we can all be proud of, and want to stay at and make work, not because there is a gun to your head, but because you get a fair days pay and decent and sustainable Ts & Cs, in return for a fair days work.

OAP:ouch:

Finding the right balance.
 

Having followed this thread for 14 pages now it is interesting to see folk falling into different categories:-

1. The pragmatists, who seem to take the balanced view and seek the fairest and most practical way forward.
2. The aggressors, who still seem intent on 'rape & pillage'.
3. The pessimists, who see doom & gloom around every corner.
4. The ostriches, who think nothing will change and the best of everything will remain.

Fortunately the pragmatists seem to be in the majority so there is a good chance we could all end up with something fair and workable. There will inevitably be some exceptional winners & losers, there always are but we should all aim for the best solution for the overall majority. Managed well we could all have an airline to be proud of and that's fit for the future.

On of the Q400 biggest problems is its common type ratting with 300/200/100 series D8 as this means we have got the same nightmare overhead panel and switchgear as the older types. However in this case it does mean that all you bacon boys with 300 ratings should only need the differences course and this is good news as Flybe now have a "square" bond for full type ratings on the Q400. £13k ish over three years, non reducing, so if you left after 2 years and 364 days you would still owe the full wack (ouch). However since its not your choice to change type, it is being done at the companies beheist as your current types are removed from the fleet should you be bonded at all? Question for your balpa reps maybe?
The last flybe base plan I saw had only D8's in GUR after the 146's are removed and I think all of the island flights from the mainland are on Q4's already so no need for the 195 to get into the really short fields on the domestic network. Any of the bacon routes go into places in europe with runways shorter than SOU?

Other jobs around INV????????????
 

:D :D Well done Paul, I'm sure that's pretty difficult up at INV, but very wise given that the route will almost certainly become a Q400 route and pretty definitely operated from LGW. Who are you moving to, surely not back to the Logy?:confused:

Nope, nice long strips of concrete

yours A. Pragmatist

BRAL, mind that revolving door, I'm right behind you! YEEEE_HAAAAA! :}

:ok:

Is it a fact that ALL EDI staff are to go?
Who will attend to the shuttles and the 3rd party work currently undertaken by BA?
I am specifically thinking about Engineering but my question applies to all groundstaff.

Don't forget that the soon to be Ex MD of Bacon and his finance director are also directors of a newly formed ground handling company based in BHX. It was formed out of the ashes of BAR. It was profitable in it's first year of operation and it appears to have made it's money providing aviation services to BACon. I think it also owns the INV ground handling operation too. Will it shrink and die or will it grow???.

Yogi are recruiting guys.... anyone for a 40% paycut? You know where to send the CV.... :{

Best of luck to everyone at Bacon, hope you find something else soon, I doubt flybe will suit everyone... but there are plenty of jobs out there... (other than yogi:p )

What's yogi?

A fictitious bear.............. :ok:

Yogi is the long standing nickname for Loganair, ie Yogi Bear.

A ficitious bear..............

Try another spell checker!:E

Sorry arem, I'm licksdexic

Turin

Most of the BA staff out in the regions deal with 'Connect' flights, which of course will be no more.

This will leave 'Shuttle' flights, but BA are putting the handling of these flights out to tender a la CDG.

Servisair/Swissport etc will no doubt get the work?

So why would Ba need anyone if the Connect flights are no more and the Shuttles are 'tendered out'?


Heard today there a meeting at LC on thursday. Maybe Flybe are taking then over too!

Shurely shome mishtake!

Heroic Scottish Pilots.
 

The fact that hundreds of ground staff are no longer required has put my concerns about probably not getting the leave I applied for next year into perspective - or perhaps 2007 will be one, long, enforced holiday!

It's been 10 days since the announcement and there has been no further information, apart from speculation and rumour. My escape plan is almost complete, but I'll leave Loganair to those heroic Scottish pilots. I'd rather stick to ILSs and 3000 metre concrete runways.

BTW, Brain Dead, there is also a rumour that FlyBe will acquire Suckling/ScotAirways, but that really is just a rumour.

Thanks, Sky Fud.:)

Given that the former BAR handling services have been bought out by DE to form a new company, is there any chance that a new handling agent may well be formed to look after these flights in the regions? If not does BA have a handling agent of choice typically? They've just started being handled by Servisair down here at EMA for their new GB service to TFS, but was wondering if Servisair was the norm.

BA will almost certainly NOT need ground staff at EDI GLA ABZ or MAN once the BAConnect/flybe deal finalises in MAR07. BA cannot (will not) justify the costs of staff, out-dated equipement renewal, accommodation, staff travel, pensions, uniforms etc etc... when a handling agent can come in, do the job and all for an agreed fee. Newcastle for starters has proved this possible, not to mention CDG and numerous other European and Longhaul stations. A tender for ground handling (To the usual handling agents) has indeed been put out to all UK airports which BA fly into / out of... Staff at the regional airports will be informed 'Officially' by Christmas Eve:ok:

Put it this way, LOGANAIR is out of the picture - WW has made that clear. I have heard over the past couple of days that flybe and Loganair will announce a franchise deal, where LC op for flybe and use Dash8-300s inherited by flybe from Connect. As speculated already, an announcement is supposedly due on THURSDAY 16 NOV;)

The new EDI-LCY- and beyond services are going to operate via yet another 'new subsidiary'. Mmmmmmmmm... How long will WW let it run? Yes it does make money in its present form, but will tinkering around with the format make it any better and cheaper to run? Again, BA will not handle it due to costs involved. 10 x AVRO RJ100s pencilled in to operate to the city and rumour has it to LHR/LGW during the quiet periods of the day.

Merry Christmas WW, and the team at Waterworld:D

Tristar

Yes, I heard the same rumour today about 'our' dashes going to LC.

What I'd like to know is the name of the RJ operation. Connect? BA red? BEA?

When I commented about the lack of BA ground staff, it was simply to draw attention to the fact. NOT to comment on the desirability (or otherwise) of the action.

I'm sure it will save BA a bunch of money. The point is that over a thousand BA employees will be chopped and there's been practically FA in the papers about it.

Having said that, some are way overpaid and highly underworked/underinterested.

Gonna be a big Flybe op at GLA if this is correct. I think the folk who stay on at EDI for the RJ may come to wish they'd gone to Flybe- but who really knows?

Brain Fade

Iam on your side boss! Did you read the BA News that came out on Thursday? Only mention was by WW in his weekly column - about how bad the pension fund is - tell us something we dont know already... Then a small piece 2 pages further on in 'BA Connect Not A Part Of Our Strategy'. What is he all about? LHR will have a 'melt-down' when T5 opens. Already having to go cap-in-hand to the BAA at LHR to 'aquire' 38 aircraft parking stands at T3 due to lack of space at the 'Be all and end all of BAs empire - T5'. Aircraft going there include the B757 fleet as they are not containerised. Mind you, neither are the A319s...
:ugh: :D :ok:

I did also hear that the hangar in GLA was being 'checked out' recently to see if the Dash8-300 would fit inside which surprise surprise - IT DOES! SAAB were also over recently trying to off-load a few SAAB 2000s they cant get rid off... Very good rates and terms were being offered.

The flybe 'franchise' sounds good for LC, as they will get more work and more exposure to domestic and European routes on a more realistic scale. Think of the route network flybe would have!

PS - Next on flybes shopping list... bmi regional ;)

There is nothing in the papers because officially there is no news.

Nobody will say it but undoubtedly they are waiting for a 'good day to bury bad news'. Bound to be one on the run up to Christmas.

Love that ps 1011.

We all know the boards off bmi and fbe met in JER some time ago and i know ABZ at one point considered the q400, but i cant see smb losing the bit of the company that makes a little cash until they've saved his bacon in LHR, no matter how much BA want it to happen.

IN

So who will look after the MAN-JFK and all the shuttle flights?

The MAN-JFK is a dedicated aircraft and needs in house support as there are no other RR powered 767s operated outside BA in the UK.

The LHR & LGW Shuttle night stops will also need attention.

BA ground staff are also contracted to other operators. This is a sizable income for BA. Are you saying that BA will cut ALL ties in the regions?

The MAN-JFK aircraft now is rotated quite iften with a B767 coming up a shuttle flight

G-I-B

TURIN

Yes, I am.

The 767's handling will go 'out to tender'.