G-I-B
The 767 rotates back to LHR every few (six?) weeks for hangar maintenance. All other (line) maintenance is done at MAN.

Brainfade

If that is idle speculation on your part please say so, if you have facts to back that statement up, again please say so.

Just to be sure,

You are saying that ALL ground staff in the regions will be non BA.

You are including
Check-in
Engineering
Operations
Dispatchers
Aircraft Services (That’s tug drivers and waste servicing to you and I).
Local Marketing and Sales
And of course All local Administration.

If I have missed anyone out I apologies.

Brainfade, your statement, if true means that there will be a hell of a lot of redundancies very soon.

That is not funny at any time but on the run up to Christmas!!!!

Please post on here responsibly, there are some who will act (rashly) on statements such as yours. This is not a game, peoples lives are at stake here.:(

Could be.
Flybe use handling agents at all airports, even our main bases.
We do have some ticket desk staff at the big hubs, in house engineering at bases, and the odd base supervisor. Cant see this changing as thats the point of the LOWCOST model so when the takeover of bacon is complete the rest of the above may not have a place in the new structure as at most of the non london airports there will be no other BA presence.
However the bacon fleet could well be around till 2009 and will need support so the ground staff may be around till then (maybe).


http://www.nextgenerationairline.co.uk

TURIN
Ask your boss for an assurance of continued emplyment if you like. What I say is what will come to pass- according to me!:}

I CAN assure you that BA will not be handling when the BACON a/c are working for Flybe.
And I can assure you that the remaining BA handling is going out to tender- so it's going too. Yes, everybody! and Yes, Mucho redundancies.

But. Please DO NOT act solely on stuff you read on pprune. There is a warning at the bottom of the page.

Just a heads up, please check tho, as you're plainly concerned, as I would be (am actually).

Let us know what they tell you, eh?

Guys and Girls,

Following on from the "whats happening to the ground based operations" conversation, the BHX BA customer facing staff almost rioted today and the (fairly strong) belief is they are going to walk out if they aren't told something in the next couple of days. They have been told even less than aircrew.

Can't blame them myself; would make it a pretty long day for us behind our FD door though!

BS

PS: DE IS A C**T

Yes, BA will contract out all ground handling services in the regions. Engineering is slightly different as BA do contract this service out at various regional stations, and as I understand, it makes lots of money... Check-in, Loading, ticket desk and baggage tracing office will go at all regional airports as handling agents can do this part of the work cheaper.

The decision to sell Connect to flybe directly affects me as a BA Mainline employee. It is true that nothing has been said officially - but - look at what we do know, and look at the way the company has been outsourcing around Europe and the world, and in particular look at how 'efficient' Newcastle is - so we are told...

I agree that the BHX (and EDI GLA ABZ and MAN) staff 'may' stage some sort of action in protest to the monumental 'foul-up' BA have caused, and continue to drag-out. BA are not stupid. Far from it. Can you imagine the chaos that will ensue if all regional staff (over the next few weeks) are told they are out of a job in MAR Staff will leave, call in sick or turn up at will for their shifts - rightly or wrongly...

There is a staff forum in GLA tonight, and EDI tomorrow. Further forums for the other stations will be held over the next week or so. Dont expect any further info from the London Management - as per above, we will all be told when it suits BA - at the last minute :ugh:

DE is a Coot.
 

BugSpeed. DE is a coot! Is he bald or something? Must be wearing a wig (or wiglette) in the photos.

But seriously, the ground staff are furious; and quite rightly so. Expect very major disruption very soon. Captains: Discretion Report Forms at the ready.

I seem to remember when Manx acquired Loganair in '94 we were treated to an evening at the MAN PostHouse Hotel where Uncle Norman gave a very grand speech and we all knew what was, for better or for worse, happening.

I beleive Servisair-Globeground is the preferred ground-handler of BA. The entire ground handling contract for 'domestic' affairs has been put out to tender in the past week or so too. It has been said that BA regularly 'test' the water for ground handling but at a time when Connect has just been sold, plunging the ground-based regional staff into turmoil, it does make one wonder. BAH HUMBUG:(

brain fade, tristar 500,

Just wondering where you got the information regarding the flybe/loganair franchise deal which you suggest may be announced shortly?

Loganair have just sent letters to all it's employees satisfactorily announcing that year end Mar 2006 was their best year financially yet and quote "In an ever changing aviation scene - as witnessed by the recent announcement of the sale of BA connect to flybe - a strong Balance Sheet gives us more confidence for the future - whether it be to facilitate fleet expansion when we identify new commercial opportunities.........". This letter comes with notification of a generous bonus to thank all employees for their hard work. This doesn't sound like an airline about to lose its present franchise status in the short term (the BA franchise renewal isn't up till Mar 2008).

Even then, what does WW have to gain by removing Loganair as a franchise?? Loganair could still feed the EDI/GLA/ABZ - London flights with transit pax and pay BA for the privilage. Loganair will use a third party for handling at these airports and all BA have to do is collect some cash for doing nothing!!

Who knows what the future holds at Yogi bear but I would've thought that flybe will have enough going on with BAcon to bother about them for the moment.

It would be very nice to hear at least something from the powers that be soon. I'd love to be able to actually sleep at nights again, because I'm a bit fed up of staring up at the ceiling all night as at present, and if this carries on, I might not be fit to fly soon, oh dear.....

So what is happening with BAR, the new ground handling company formed from the ashes of BAR the former airline. BA own the share capital in theis company and until recently, it was trading at a modest profit providing services to BAcon. Current MD and Finance Director of Bacon are the directors of BAR. Will it also just be allowed to fail, or will it be encouraged to grow?

AFO,

Unfortunately they haven't told the FlyBe lot anything either - my guess though is there is a Dash/400 left seat with your name on it somewhere (if you want it)- can't say about the 195 though.

The latest on the pay offer was very favourable for the Dash (average for the 146/195:{ ). It puts the starting salary for a Q400 capt. at 50K in 2007 and 53.5K in 2008 + increments per year but they have not included lifestyle issues in this one so not sure how the vote will go, should get an answer by end of the month.

We haven't been told anything about the 2 seniority lists. I guess they are busy with other things at the moment.

Hang on in there buddy, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

PJ

It doesn't matter what you pay a prop captain, people will still leave. Pilots want to fly a jet, simple as that.

All that flybe are doing are advertising the fact they DON'T have a clue what they are doing. If they did they wouldn't try to hold Pilots with offers of 50K and non reducing bonds. Simply put if they were a good company pilots would never leave. In the last 12 months they have had to recruit over 130 pilots. With a total of 330 that is shocking. Allow an extra 30 for expansion makes it embarisingly shocking. 50 grand for an Airline captain is shocking as well. I can get a job at Lever Brothers on a Continental shift (4 on 4 off) and get paid 52 grand!! Wake up boys and smell the coffee.

HB,

actually a lot of pilots are v happy flying the Q400; I am one of them.
Most LH seaters are in flybe to fly from the regions, most like the Q400.
The £53,000 was actually very welcome news; the pay offer is separate from T&Cs; J. French is increasing the pilot numbers by 5% per aircraft (irrespective of whether the BACON deal goes through) to alleviate roster instability issues. There is to be a separate ballot re the T&Cs later.

So, the recruitment for the additional 5% of pilots will go ahead and pilots are very happy with a 19% pay offer. We don't all want to go to LGW to fly jets.

FB

And the same goes for the majority of Bacon pilots. Most of the Big jet wannabee people have already gone. Many of the remainder will not be too concerned about the type, but would not be impressed by the current pay gap between TP and Jet/ nearly jet. Sort out the pay and most would be content with the prop. The 195 would obviously be of interest, but most would look at base and type of work done by a fleet before they worried about how pointy it was. Most 145 and 146 people would not mind a move to propland if the pay was the same.
Don't overestimate the rush to get on the new jet.

I heard today that the BACON boys will be going to the bottom of the seniority list.:ugh:

If true, it should come as absolutely no surprise at all. I still can't believe that the BACON folk think they have any bargaining power at all... I'm afraid your bosses gave that away when they agreed to this deal.

AO,

you must be receiving your news re seniority from a different source to Flybe pilots - we've heard nothing re the lists - I don't think the CC's have met yet.

FB

This is FACT :

The deal isn't even done yet, so anything you 'know' or have 'been assured' is definitely speculation and quite possibly rubbish.

Nothing has been decided about anything, be it t's and c's, seniority, anything you want to name.

The two Ccs will meet for the first time officially tomorrow.

It's a take-over, not a merger, and TUPE rules may not apply.

In the cut-throat, increasingly 'green', low-margins regional loco world NOTHING beats the Q400 comercially. (there may even be a 100 seat version in the offing) If your too proud for props, tough!

:rolleyes:

You don't have to go to LHR or LGW to fly something that pays you the going rate. Plenty of operators paying proper money in the regions. The latest from Exeter is that the 195 salary will be less than the prop and the disturbing thought is that you guys will let it happen. Flybe is doing what Ryanair has already done. Rattle the industry. Easyjet has just ordered another 54 aircraft for the regions, 5 on 4 off. 90 grand plus, you lot are on another planet. Oh I forgot you like low pay, cold food and an aircraft that shakes! Wake up and smell the coffee. You do have boilers on board don't you?!!!!

:rolleyes:

See what I mean? Hudson, me old pal, that is utter Balls!

The 195 salary will be less than the Q400, will it? Where did you hear such nonsense? If the current pay deal goes through, by April '08 the basic entry level 195 Captain will earn £5654 more than his/ her Q400 equivalent.

the Jet people would like the difference to be more, but you make my point exactly: by and large people are trading rumours and speculation, almost all of it rubbish.

It helps no-one, most of all the people affected to peddle rumour as fact.

"The latest from Exeter", indeed. What, the city-center Macdonald's?

:ugh:

Hudson,

I've had enough of your posts, what absolute rubbish!!

An E195 skipper on less that a Q400, it's time you 'woke up and smelt the coffee'. (The only way that would work is if the latter were a trainer or had more Service in Rank/PayPoint payments).

Save space on this Forum by not posting such utter drivvle!!! :ugh:

The 195 is a phenomenal aircraft with already a 98% dispatch out of BHX.
Just a thought as well, if you left Flybe you would be taking a step back in technology of nearly 20 years to fly 'buses or boeings, this thing is what I want, as do many of my colleagues. :ok: :ok:

Keep your hair on guys!!!! This is a disscusion and rumour board. Forcing your views on other people is very childish.

I just do not understand why you tolerate the low wages and poor conditions. Of course to fly a 195. No engineering support, no reliability record, no towbars, no steps, no spare parts, no........ I'll stop. Looks nice though!! Can you walk under it??

Heard today that the seniority list is to be merged with BAcon so it may not have been worth it to hang around at flybe.

Anyway lets not get upset, life is just a game!!!! (Mission statement from Mac D's in central Exeter!!!!

you're a rock hudson.

Hmmmm. You do talk rubbish don't you. Plenty of engineering support, if it goes somewhere there aren't any trained engineers it takes then with it. The aircraft takes a bar with it if it goes away from it's usual routes. Airstairs are built into the aircraft and yes they do work. Finally the engineers here never have any problems with getting whatever they need, not that it breaks that often (98% dispatch reliablity):ok:

More hudson rubbish.........

Tell us what you know re wages and T&Cs, come on lets have a laugh.......

(as you don't know anything about the aircraft)

Are you just wilfully making stuff up, Hudson?

"heard today that seniority lists are to be merged..."

For the sake of all those who are presently worried sick and hungry for real news, please read this very carefully: Nothing has been decided, the CCs don't meet until tomorrow and anything at all that you have heard, invented or been imparted on engraved tablets is speculation, at best.

Please find another subject to make ill-informed (un-informed would be nearer the truth) commentary about. You are helping no-one here.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not "forcing my views..."; what I'm telling you is 100% fact.

Goodbye!

:* :ugh:

I find it interesting that someone like HB who has proudly announced they have moved onto bigger and better things in their life professionally, still find the urge to revisit that good old haunt called flybe on a regular fashion!

They may pay less, have smaller aircraft blah blah blah, but something still keeps HB interested in the news, views and gossip of toy town regional flying.......ho hum.

I don't give a monkey's A*** what I fly.

Whats important to me is how much I'm getting paid to fly it and how much time I get off to spend it with my family.

Simple as that.:cool:

I also heard today that the BAcon Pilots will go to the bottom of the seniority list. I think it is a done deal already despite what the CC's come to agree.:ok:

The Bottom line is they are coming to us not the other way round. If it were the other way around you can rest assured that we would have gone to the bottom of their list.:{

If they don't like it there is always Easy Jet!

I am sure most of the BAcon Pilots are considering them anyway. It would still be a far better place than Flybe that's for sure and you still have the opportunity to work in the regions as well.

:ugh:

Tory,

Are you able to read English?

Nothing whatever is a 'done deal'.

Nothing.

Period.

What you may hope or even believe is not the same as fact.

:=

WoW Fred!

No need to get your Knickers in a Twist.

Don't Shoot the Messenger.:=

2 quick points:

1) Don't be so sure the pay offer will get voted in by the BALPA members!

2) Those at BACon flying the 145 might find that they aren't overly attractive to Easy/Ryan etc unless they are willing to buy their own 737/A319 rating like all those over TRSS applicants. So for now its the Q400 or the dole queue. Their choice.

Ba News !!
 

British Airways has announced that it has reached agreement in principle to sell the regional operation of its subsidiary airline BA Connect to Flybe.
BA Connect also operates from London City Airport and between Manchester and New York. These services will not form part of the proposed sale nor will the regional ground handling business, British Airways Regional Ltd.
Willie Walsh, British Airways chief executive said: “Point to point regional operations are not a strategic part of our business and we believe that such activities are better undertaken by a regional low cost airline.
“Despite the best efforts of the entire team at BA Connect, we do not see any prospect of profitability in its current form.
“The proposed sale to Flybe provides the best opportunity to secure the long-term future for the many dedicated staff in BA Connect. British Airways will have a 15 percent investment in Flybe on completion of the disposal.
“London City services complement our mainline business at Heathrow. For this reason they are not included in the proposed sale.”

It is envisaged that once the sale of the regional business of BA Connect to Flybe is completed, there will be a transition period until the start of the summer schedule on 25 March, 2007 while the handover of responsibilities is undertaken.

Info from today www.ba.com

Flybe agrees to acquire BA Connect
www.flybe.co.uk

Tory,

Now I'm sure you are being deliberately obtuse. You have just made my point; you are NOT the messenger, you are a rumour-monger. Not the same thing at all, I think you would agree.


:* :ugh:


BMED,

Your point is well made, in fact it's pretty much the same words as Flybe put out ten days or so ago. The critical caveat is that Flybe is still going thru' what the management-speak enthusiasts call 'due diligence'. In normal language that means that nothing is signed, agreed or committed-to yet. Comme j'ai dit deja, everything else you hear is rumour and speculation.

Night, night.

From the views expressed to me by the BACON colleagues I have flown with since the announcement, Flybe might well end up with a load of empty aicraft and no crews to fly them!
Every single pilot I've flown with is trying their hardest to get out!!
Good luck to all, leavers and stayers alike!:hmm:

..........Those at BACon flying the 145 might find that they aren't overly attractive to Easy/Ryan etc unless they are willing to buy their own 737/A319 rating like all those over TRSS applicants. So for now its the Q400 or the dole queue. Their choice.

I'm not so sure, rumour has it that EZY now accept the 146 and 145 as DEP ie they pay type rating, you get bonded. Even consider them as DEC if you have sufficient experience:cool: :cool: :cool:

According to a forum headed by Regional and London Management for the Regional Staff, Loganair does not 'fit' with BAs longterm plan. WW trying to get out of ALL franchise deals, LC being the one that costs BA the most to look after on the ground. LC will very shortly - if not sooner if WW had his way - go their own way. This came from one of the managers at one of the forums!

It cant be all that bad...
 

Come on everyone. Look at the bright side as well. As I said before, I enjoy my job on the q400 very much. And yes there are of course things to be sorted out just like any other airline.

When it comes to news.....:confused: We in Flybe don't know much either. No clue what they will do with the seniority list. I still think merging by PLACE on list and not doj is probably the fairest solution, but I said all this before...:ugh:

We in Flybe have alll worked hard to make the company what it is today. You guys in BA Connect have worked hard for what we (hopefully) are getting. That means it's all of our joint effort's, present and past, that will make Flybe what it will be after January. Lets all try to sort this out as positively as we can. :)

As for rumors....

We are under the impression that Flybe will ground all the Dash 8-300's and retrain the pilots on the Q400. Surely that cant be a bad thing?:D

The rest of the BA fleet will be phased out over the next to years and replaced with the Q400 and E195 as we get them.

I have also heard the rumor about Flybe and Logan Air. Dont know any more than just that, exept that Logan Air wants out of the BA frenchise as it's apperantly not that great for them.:suspect:

Anyway, best of luck to all of us. The future is bright (Not orange):zzz:

Have you got the spare capacity of 400s to ground us all on the 300 to train us? Would be nice but don't think it'll be this in the short term.

BOSD
D8 Capt Manchester

Looking to the future!