Anotherflapoperator.
Have you tried Thomsonfly? Best T& C's and good money after pay rise? Think they are still recruiting.

Good luck everyone

BACON FLYBE seniority merger
 

I notice there is a lot of talk about seniority effects in the merger/takeover.
I have some contact with high flyer industrial lawyers in the uk. The general view is that airline seniority lists are not lawful due to the new anti age descrimination laws which came into effect in October. The view is that it is a form of indirect age descrimination and is bound to be declared illegal when the first case comes to an IR tribunal. Similar test cases have been set in Eire (not aviation ones) where the EU law was enacted earlier than the UK. You can pay more to reward length of service but you cannot deny a job position on length of service. To do so would be considered denying one age group younger or older from an opportunity. It looks as if in the future all Captain positions will have to be done by interview like any other job taking into account experience, ratings, suitability, etc. Everybody with the necessary qualifications would have to be given an opportunity to apply for the captain position. A bidline system for trips might be OK as it might be considered a length of service benefit, but not the actual job promotion proccess. The airlines are aware of this apparently, they are just waiting for the first move by an employee. Balpa I feel is hoping it will go away. When somebody from Bacon or flybe feels agrieved we may see the first case in an IR court in the UK. If these lawyers are correct in their forecast, the changes to the pilot promotion world in the EU will be immense.

That all sounds very plausable, WWW, pity though as all it will do is put money into lawyers pockets and not help the intended victims of age discrimination. The principle of seniority is well understood within the aviation industry and to have it derailed by EU legislation just demonstrates (again) how well meaning regulations can be hijacked and turned to anyones advantage. Another example is the Human Rights Act.:sad:

BOSD... Flybe is due to be 30-40 Captains short by March 2007, due to resignations and aircraft deliveries over the winter. Couple that with the overlap of domestic routes between BACon and Flybe and yes I think it is very plausible that the Q300 could be grounded more or less immediately and all those pilots retrained on the Q400.

As for whoever it was sat in the RHS of the 146 on Fraggle Rock with 3500 hrs. Don't worry you will be straight in the LHS of the Q400. We need Captains and you have more than enough hours for command at Flybe. Commands at present in Flybe are awarded purely on hours, their is no internal waiting list to do it by seniority. Their is not one single F/O left in the company at present with the experience to promote to the LHS, so everyone like you at BACon with about 2500hrs could be looking at immediate promotion, and as said above if the new pay offer gets voted in, £53,500 salary by April 2008!!

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the concept of the franchise deals.
BA have no authority to buy a franchise partner such as Logan Air, Sun Air, GB and BMED. The franchisee uses the livery and BA as a ticketing agent but are separately/privately/publicly owned companies. They are not contracted to fly routes on behalf of BA. So any 'takeover' would be conditional on those franchise partners accepting such a proposition.
Is this not correct?

BA and It's Network Partners .
 

I wonder if British Airways is tired of it's
Partner's and just wants out ? , As you can see with BA Connect .

Any insight would be a good read ;)

Cheers .

Also Cityflyer was a franchise , Before it changed to Citi Express and now BA Connect .
British Airways would of brought all there franchises I heard if it was not for 9/11 , And Cityflyer was the first one . But that is not fact , just gossip !!

More about B|MED , GB Airways , Logan Air , Sun-Air ; Denmark and Comair in South Africa :

A franchise service means that you fly with an independent airline, which operates to British Airways own high standards of customer service, quality and hospitality.

• Our franchises specialise in specific routes and regions extending our network, offering you greater choice and flexibility.
• They use British Airways name, livery and flight code.
• Inside the aircraft you find the familiar British Airways cabin interior and staff uniforms.

BMED just going to correct you on something that you have mentioned about Cityflyer .

Cityflyer was the first BA franchise which later got bought by BA for £70 million and became a subsidiary. Cityflyer then merged with Eurogatwick to form Eurofleet LGW and now Gatwick Fleet and NOT BA Connect !

Cityflyer Franchise started 1993 and got bought before Sept 2001.

There is no reason BA would want to close there franchise deals in relation to cost. The franchisee foots the bill for all its operations just like a regular airline. They are independant companies using, under licence, the BA name. BA benefit from this by having an extended route structure at no cost and the franchisee may well be required to use BA handling ground services.

Besides, back to BA Connect..... and thats because today is my very last day in the company so good bye and good luck to all my friends and former (at 17:00) colleagues.

With BA Con going it is going to hit Titan`s business with all the ad hoc work they have done over the years

G-I-B

Good luck JAARRGH, whoever you are!
Hope to be following you through the escape hatch very soon!!:D

Ah ..I see , Cheers for Info .
So Citi Express where did that come from ?
Was it always part of BA ? Based in Manchester ?

Cheers :ok:

BMED LHR

CitiExpress was born following BA's acquisition of BRAL. CitiExpress brought together what was Brymon, BRAL and Manx Airlines. It was headquartered in Manchester with back office in IOM. CitiExpress became BA Connect.

For a while the regional BA ops (ATP's etc) out of Manchester carried British Airways Express titles, but this is/was separate to CitiExpress (I believe).

Hope that helps :)

BA bought the BRAL group and then merged all 3.
It was then ruined by Messers Evans and Witts and Walsh.
Good luck to Jaarrgh, I'm off soon too I hope.

Thanks for getting back !!
 

Cheers for the info ..I Understand it all now ;) ,
And to JAARRGH and tallaonehotel I wish you all the best in 2007 and the future :ok:

Once Again thanks for the info , I forgot about those Airlines ..I'll be reading all about it later "Need to do my Home work " Lol...

Bear in mind that Brymon, Manx etc. were only bought to get the EGLL slots. The routine was:

1. Buy the carrier
2. Move the routes to EGKK
3. Back fill the slots at EGLL with long haul
4. Run down the carrier and dispose of it

This has largely come about because of the way in which slots at UK airports could not be bought 'over the counter', so the trashing of the regional carriers was the only alternative.

{I am not and never have been an employee of any company in the UK airline industry}

What's happening to BA's regional bases?
 

Rumor has it that there is a woman working her way around the country closing down or dispersing BA's regional bases we have heard to date that Southhampton is disolved, that Glasgow is having all there work subbed out to contract handling companies? then today she has arrived at Manchester, there is a meeting taking place as we speak (11:36am) with BA staff, could this be the end of BA Manchester? i work for the current handling company that BA use, guess there's a possibility that we might be doing the whole package soon? can anyone shed any light on this maybe give some clarification to the current situation!!!!:mad:

No offense Paul,

but this has already been discussed on a few threads. BA Connect Sold to flybe thread and others........ a little searching should reveal all the answers!

m.

BA might be closer to the Long Haul only concept than you think.

Substantial rumour that WW has been in contact with Ryanair management about offloading Short haul to that airline.Maybe BA Connect was just the start.

I can hear all the replies now but with all thats going on in the airline industry at the moment stranger things have happened.

I can imagine the flight crews responce but whatever you may think of Ryanair they have got the low cost model right and are now the equivalent of Southwest in Europe.

Whats happening to BA's regional bases?
 

I'm fully aware of te sale of BA Connect to FlyBe i should do considering i work on there aircraft daily if you read properly what i wrote, i'm asking have the regional bases started to be closed already, in ref to Southhampton, Glasgow and now maybe Manchester it effects all of us here so would like to know if Manchester is to be closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Ok Sorry.

Southampton closed at the end of the summer schedule. The aircraft based there was moved to EDI and either MAN or BHX. Routes still operated but only EDI and MAN.
EDI. GLA etc.... Yes BA have been having meetings. Did not reveal all in the meetings, but basically using the BACON deal as an excuse to pull out of handling in the regions and put it out for tender.
Ba have been very good about not giving too much away at the moment. Do not want to pi$$ of the staff and cause a strike!! The feeling in from EDI ground staff is that BA will retain a few customer service staff but the rest will be contracted out. (Just like the ground handling in MAN)
As for BA in MAN. After March there will still be the LHR & LGW Shuttle flights and the GB flights.
If you are already working for the handling agent in MAN, then this should not affect you. It will only be BA employed staff (check-in, gate staff etc)...... well, and those that do ground handling for BACON.

Hope that helps answer you questions.

P.S. none of this is FACT as yet, just speculation

British Airways Regional Staff
 

I work in the passenger services department at BHX and we do not have a clue what is going on although we are assuming we will be out of a job as when the Flybe deal goes through we will only have Eastern Airways and Brussels Airlines to handle and I dont see WW keeping us going for that.

I personally fear like others that BA ground staff will no longer exist outside of London and WW is just waiting to drop the bombshell around Xmas time.

I just want to know wether to get out now or hold on for a little bit of severence after 5 years with BA only time will tell I suppose.

Regional bases...all BA staff redundant
 

Paul,the lady in question doing the rounds is Beverley Bennett.The message is that all BA groundstaff in the regional airports are to be made redundant.No redeployment offers or opportunities due to the numbers of staff involved.BA services that continue to operate such as flights to and from LHR/LGW will be handled by third parties.

The dispatcher who got on our flight yesterday confirmed that all the ground staff in the regions would be made redundant. A total of 800 job losses. There was talk of a possible TUPE transfer to whoever would be doing FlyBE's ground handling. However we all know such promises are worthless. After all some of my colleagues are still awaiting their TUPE transfer to Eastern Airways after the LBA Junkstream fiasco.

Thanks for the response guys it has been confirmed an hour ago that all the work is going to be tendered out! its a shame for the staff that will be affected, nice Xmas to look forward to now eh! i work for the handling agent so only the BA Connect flights are a problem to us as for the LHR/LGW/BLL and the GB flts is biz as usual
It it true they are slashing the JFK down to 3 flights a week? :ugh:

Well it did not take Flybe(BA Connect) long to sh:mad: on the engineering base in the IOM.

In what would otherwise be amusing circumstances we have the IOM minister of Trade and Industry saying rumours about the base closing were ‘scurrilous’ while at the same time the closure announcement was being made on the local radio.

Presumably any grants from the Govt given to build the facility will now have to be paid back.

Best wishes to all those staff involved and hope you all find new work soon

I can't honestly see how the rock's maintenance facility could be viable without massive IOM Govt support to whoever is operating it unless there were large numbers of locally based aircraft using it.
Perhaps IOMG Plc is not happy pumping cash into an operation which does not share the kudos of a national carrier? Maybe Euromanx might be interested in inheriting the site?

thank you david evans ,your Qand A letter explained everything....that being, you havent the guts to say whats planned for your staff..pilots to aircraft cleaners have been left in orbit at BHX....merry f in xmas

What with 3 leased aircraft?.

Hilarious that a goverment minister on the rock made a public a**e of himself over this!. Alex D would make a great BA board member!!!.

EuroManx actually own their dash's but lease the ATR. You are right though, why would EM want a hanger with their fleet size!
Link about IOM hanger closing
http://www.manxradio.com/readItem.as...6&cate=General

The IOM base facility can process a fleet of 35 aircraft and it is these sort of numbers that would be required to make it pay.

The reason Manx Airlines set up the facility in the first place was beacuse the rates in the UK were too expensive and BM was getting ready for the shiny 737, Introduction of the ERJ 145 meant another bay.

The new FlyBe regional aircraft maintenance facility must be one of the biggest in Europe and can take on all the work that is being done in IOM as well as it's own and third party.

This is not good for the IOM or the airline industry as many of the skilled aircraft engineers will leave the industry.

More AIDs - Airline Induced Disruption

Part 69 - I have to correct you, Euromanx lease the Dash's from Bombardier.

Slots.
 

Just a small point - Anotherflapoperator- in addition to the 3 slots at LHR used from the IOM, there were the Brymon ones for the PLH-LHR route.

Together they added up to some millions.

We have heard nowt in engineering except that all ground handling is to be outsourced. Whether that includes us is anyones guess.:mad:

Good luck all it was nice working with you.:ok:

Hansol, don't want to get into a slagging match, but do check your facts.
You are quite right they WERE leased. They are not any more.

Good luck once again to all the BA staff

There is a huge opportunity here for an investor. Zero corporation tax, and if resident, a £ 100,000 cap on personal income tax. The possibility for bizjet maintenance could be a runner. It would be tragic to see this go down the tubes.

There most be someone out there? Amsair?

Where did you get your info from?

As far as the 'entire' EDI ground staff community are aware, its 'lights out' for us all. Although not officially advised by BA, what we do know is not good...

IE we in the regions EDI GLA ABZ and MAN are NOT cost effective, we are NOT competative in the handling business and we are NOT part of WW big plan. All Regional ground handling has been put out to tender - that has been confirmed. Loganair will also go to a handling agent in Scotland, as BA really have no time for them and the cost implications of handling them are astronomical. Allegedly they get a complete turnaround for around £18.00! T5 will be the centre piece of BA operations, with the regions, Europe and Longhaul stations being handled by Agents. Minimal cost, no pensions, no staff travel and no accommodation/equipement problems at each airport. That with the fact that EZY are milking BA dry on LGW especially, then to be honest it isnt looking good. We will be advised on Christmas Eve by Beverley 'Chopper' Bennett - the BA staff member in charge of The UK Regions, LGW and International... Had her at a forum this week in Scotland. Didnt tell us anything we didnt know already. Said all but we are out.

Hope this clears up some doubts about staff being retained. I will be very happy and surprised if I am in employment with BA in the regions on April 01 2007.

PS - Your point regarding a strike may not be too far off the mark... Iam not suggesting that there will, should or indeed be one but the talk on the ground is one of bitterness, anger and complete dismay. The regions have put up with quite a lot of 'you know what' over the last 18 months with understaffing, lack of serviceable equipement and complete lack of managerial leadership. This is the 'Final approach' of a long and turbulent flight.

Why NOT strike then?
Wouldn't blame you if you did!
BA are saying nothing as the only news they can give out is BAD!
Better for them to say nothing, or make deliberately ambiguous comments, as to tell the truth means the BACon operation will never make it through until the spring!

You're letting them away with it.:hmm:

mmmmmmm
 

this guy means business..he will close down all bases that are not commercially viable, farm out all ground handling at staions that dont warrant ba ground staff...all but lhr and usa stations. I'm cabin crew at lhr but was prev crew for bacx at man. my crew manager told me 2 years ago to get my arse to london if i wanted to work for BA. She also said that BA at LGW will be no longer once T5 opens. They'll move LH flights up to lhr...manipulate the bermuda 11 agreement if needs be and get rid of lgw sh........if you think this is a load of crap, lets see march 28th 2008

Yes, those of you unfortunate enough to be suffering the uncertainty of working at LGW should be looking closely at how they slice away at Bacon, BAR and BA staff in the regions. This has been spun to the media as just the sale of Bacon to an up and coming profitable company with lots of "job security / continuation". It is now becoming clear that this mst have been in the planning wver since WW spent time shadowing RE and there is probably a large team of "Redeployment consultants" behind te scenes looking into how to lose as many people as possible as cheaply as possible using every loophole in the law they can possible find.

I understand that two of BA connects "Managers"(used in a very loose term by all accounts) have appeared on a BA main line seniority list.