bmi (industrial action vote)
 

bmi baby pilots to ballot for industrial action next week

bmi mainline / bmi regional pilots the week after

Interesting times indeed!

Any ideas what day(s?) a strike would be planned for bmibaby (if indeed thats what they voted for in the ballot) as I am due to fly on them on Thursday, so I'm hoping that (as I would guess) they would strike after that :)
Would be a bad start to our US holiday if it was Thursday though, though I seriously doubt it :}

The onnly information I have is a letter sent by the General Secretary of BALPA which would indicate Strike Action by mid to end August. Don't book with bmi baby if you are travelling then.

mme,

Nothing can possibly move that quickly. Ballot papers to be issued, votes cast, votes counted, action decided. Weeks away.

whats the dispute over, if no-one minds me asking? (non-pilot, non-spotter, interested by-stander :) )

The dispute is over - ERODING CONDITIONS AND OF COURSE ERODING FLIGHT PAY.
Without going into too much boring detail, this company's management have adopted a "don't give a !!!!! stance". They have ceased to negotiate with balpa and started emposing conditions of pay which are completely unrealistic.
Pilots are now literally losing money since April, as the Inland Revenue have increased their taxation of sector pay. Negotiations were taking place between the management and the IR in a stealthy manner, despite opposition from balpa before April, the result of course is the above.
The management think they will get away with this by just burrying their heads in the sand.
Well - there's water under the sand and they are beginning to smell it!!!:ok:

one four sick

Ballot
 

I understand all 3 groups were balloted for initial feeling....all were in favour of action around the 96% margin. I gather talks have now broken down and its heading for action.

This year a pay rise was imposed by management with no improvement to the T's and C's and NO negotiation!!!??? What sort of an outfit operates in this manner? Flying Club behaviour.

They are underestimating ill feeling amongst the crews and believe support for action has been hyped by BALPA....IT HASN'T and it will bite them this time I feel unless they come to their senses.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a complete shame this is. I fly with Bmi a lot on the Heathrow - Edinburgh route and cannot praise the crew/service enough. In comparison to the rivals - and you know who you are - Bmi just simply cut the mustard. Shame on the management if they try to upset a well oiled machine. I work for a large TV broadcaster and we are in exactly the same position - professional work done by hard working folk totally taken for granted by the current management team. Good luck Bmi crew - try not to let it get you down.

Btw I would have been flight crew if my eyes hadn't been so bandy so have to make do with sitting out back!

timv
 

Timv,

hopefully common sense will win the day.....BALPA remains proud in that to date its never actually had to call the troops out yet...but there's always a first time....

Unfortunately those at board level in bmi seem to have forgotten the importance of dealing with the pilot workforce with respect reference their annual pay negotiations. This is most likely going to result in a strike ballot which will ultimately lead to notice of impending industrial action. I don't think Nigel & Tim are particularly experienced in this scenario and therefore may find that the damage caused could and most probably will, lead to their downfall. They're playing a very dangerous game if they want to continue their careers within bmi. Mr Bishop has been ruthless in the past with people who screw-up! I certainly wouldn't want to be a pilot manager either, the mis-management will ultimately threaten their positions as well. It's time for the pilots at bmi to stand-up and be counted or face further degradation of their conditions & pay.

Regards, The Count

I'd have to second this, I've flown BMI mainline and Baby (as pax) and I've been nothing but impressed with the level of service from flight and cabin crews and groundstaff alike and in the quality of the aircraft. You're all doing a great job from what I can see and its very sad when professionals feel they have to resort to strike action to make themselves heard to their 'management'. I hope you can resolve your dispute without detriment to yourselves, your pax and the airline, but sadly there's nearly always losers in these affairs... :uhoh:

bmi group strike ballot very likely this week.
 

Different issues in each of the three parts of the group - mainline, baby and regional.

But the common thread is the attitude and manner in which the bmi group has refused to negotiate with the pilots.

In mainline the main issue is the unilateral cancellation by bmi of the major part of the 2004 pay agreement which took place a few months ago.

That agreement hammered out over many months and ballotts in 2004, said that for 2006 a negotiated settlement would be arrived at following a survey of bmi pilots' packages versus those of other airlines.

That survey was carried out in 2005 but then in early 2006 bmi said that the whole process of settling the 2006 pay award was going to take too long and a modest group award was imposed on the pilots. End of story. Thank you for waiting for two years, go away and don't make a fuss about it.

At the same time there are many other issues in bmi mainline that fuel the present feeling of upset and annoyance -

Massive hikes in proposed pension contributions -from 10% to 18.5%, which are somewhat high by any measure.

A new rostering system which continually produces lates rosters and with the wrong nightstop preferences.

An abysmal off-airport staff car park and bus service and despite constant promises just gets worse. This wastes around 40mins every working day, extending the day and crucially is before official report and after official report - ie in so called "rest" time by CAA definition and is not "duty".

A nine year wait (at present) for a central car park pass. Central car parks are just a few minutes walk away.
(If you are a non-pilot working in a bmi ground service dept - cabin crew management/check-in etc you can get a central pass after a few years)

A lack of a promised 80% part time scheme (another part of the 2004 agreement forgotten about by bmi).

No new commands since 2001.

Promises of expansion and commands through long haul - " the engine of growth". Minimal expansion and only wet leased in capacity with denied promotions.

And to finish off - one recent example that sums up the whole bmi attitute to its staff nicely - in a new LHR crew room revamp they've taken away all the chairs for the pilots and cabin crew briefing areas and just left high tables to stand by and lean on.

No longer can you afford to sit down, digest, mull, discuss and plan your days multisector duty with your colleagues in a professional manner.

bmi - professional staff working for questionable management - who refuse to answer the questions.

upandoffmyside,

What a great post, says it all really, at least for mainline. - well said!

I have to agree, an excellent post. Highlights a lot of the current problems witin bmi, there are many more...

For Baby the major gripes are:

1. Imposition of group pay award (although management insists group pay awards don't occur!) no negotiation - just go away we can't be bothered with you :ouch:

2. Unilateral changes to the profit share scheme to the detriment of the pilots - this despite the fact that the profit share is defined in the 'Playground rules' and as such form part of our contract of employment :ouch:

3. Lastly and most painfully, they screwed up our arrangement with the IR regarding tax position of sector pay. The CC requested no increase in sector pay during the 04/05 pay round to protect the advantageous tax position we enjoyed - did management listen and respect that? of course not and they imposed a 3.2% increase on sector pay. Result was that the IR decided to review the sector pay and generously decided we could now expect only £5 tax free per day provided we completed 3 or more sectors :ouch: :ouch: :ouch:

Thus Baby pilots have actually experienced a reduction in take home pay thanks to management incompetence - about £2k for captains :ugh:
The Baby CC have tried to negotiate with the Company over this issue but have been stone walled by management. Remember this is still the 04/05 pay round that has to be resolved, something that should have been completed in April 2005 :ugh:
Baby pilot's patience has been exhausted and frankly we're up for the fight, expect a good ballot result and some disruption in August.

Bash the Bish takes on a new meaning :mad:

And the stand up tables in the crew room is a *^+$ ing stupid idea

edited for incompetence with a calculator!

Oh please tell me that you were only joking with this being one of the gripes of Bmi pliots ?.

Maybe the other 99% of LHR workers that have to park on the perimeter and take the bus should also go on strike too.

:rolleyes:

You and others like you miss the point every time. Pilots work to rigid regulations with respect to flight time limitations. I appreciate the fact that someone who works in an office at Heathrow would feel they have the same right to a central car park pass but you have to acknowledge that whilst we might work for the same company we also work in DIFFERENT professions of which 'being a pilot' has the greatest number of regulations. Your post perpetuates the myth that pilots think they are a 'special' case. They aren't and they don't. I would support any working group who have the bXXls to stand up to their management and say enough is enough. Unless you are one of them? you should support them to - you might need them on your side one day.

lhr car parking
 

It's clearly not a headline grabber in this dispute but it's a significant and long standing gripe along with the all the others that bmi refuse to do anything about.

The Magnatex (Car Park F) parking service is the worst at LHR. Its combination of distance and lack of frequent buses is unequalled at the airport. No other staff car park is served by only four buses per hour for large chunks of the day and six per hour for part of the day.

Many other staff car parks have buses at less than ten minute intervals and are closer.

No body's got a problem with perimeter car parks at all - there are some excellent ones at LHR, which in many respects with frequent buses are preferable to central area.

bmi refuse to recognise the negative impact this service has on the daily working lives of the staff. You have to be in Magnatex to really appreciate it.

I agree,with all the expected recruiting from other airlines in the winter I dont think anyone would be out of a job for to long.
Well put guys and I know some management read this and I really do hope we dont end up with industrial action as no one wins but if needs must, so fix it before it really gets broken.

P.S. and dont even get me started about the pension!:ugh: :ugh: :mad: :mad:

Rgds

K.I.L.

I'm a Kiwi SLF who has been travelling annually to Glasgow for the past 5 years or so. Air NZ to LHR and then BMI to Glasgow. January this year was my last time and I do mean my last time to ever use BMI.

I have never had a flight that was on time but I guess that is just the way at LHR. I have noticed a steady decline in staff attitude and one just got the feeling that not everything was well within the company - and that's just as an occassional pax.

Service and attitudes at Glasgow are or were just terrible.

Because my travel in January was at short notice the fare (LHR / GLA / LHR was horrific, the flights as usual were late and the killer for me was the fact that I was asked to pay for the tea or coffee!!

I knew at that point that BMI was stuffed and that a thread like this would only be a matter of time.

I agree that a company usually reflects its management and it would seem that BMI sadly is a glowing example of this.

Good luck
 

Sorry to butt in on your thread guys, but this sort of topic is close to m,y heart.........your management attitude is quite the norm these days unfortunately. This is due largely in part to us pilots "inactivity" to be united and ability to stand up to these money pinching sods!!!! It has been happening all over the world for too long and our industry has been dragged down because of it. Sooner or later we have to make a stand and i hope that your cause is strong enough to do this.
Signs all over that pilot bodies are fed up with this on going degregation of conditions and hopefully the worm is turning, now its our turn!!!
Good luck guys/gals!

What is the state of the pension fund deficit these days?

IndianZZ,

How's this. I am reliably informed the bmi regional staff who position with bmi mainline before / after a duty are still 'on duty' as it were (often after a very long day and hours of hanging around LHR) but are expected to buy their own tea / coffee because it's a bmi mainline service. They are at work, but have no access to refreshments and most wouldn't even dare to bug the cabin crew for a glass of water because they're too busy trying to sell stuff like Heathrow Express tickets and the like.:confused:

Signs of a caring employer? No wonder there's trouble at t'Mill. You don't get owt for nowt and staff attitudes will reflect the state of morale.

No offence folks, but I think the gripes about not having tea and coffee available at work, unless paid for, are misplaced. I work for one of the largest airlines and we have to pay for every cuppa. I don't begrudge that at all - in fact I would expect it. Tea and coffee don't grow on trees :ok: .... ha ha, of course they do. But it still needs to be paid for by someone.

Concentrate your efforts on the other terms and conditions and stop harping on about a cuppa. It looks petty in the extreme when veiwed from out here. Hey, I'm on you're side and have met several former BMI pilots who have joined the airline I fly for - I've heard first-hand. Perhaps just direct your efforts with a bit more thought about what is really important.

Don't forget we at bmi regional have to buy our own food when we're operating the flight too. There are no crew meals provided and it's room-only accommodation when we get to the hotel.
Are biggest issue is that we have no scheduling agreement. We can report for our rostered 4 sector duty and end up on a three day nightstop. Our rosters are changed at the last minute leaving us unable to make any personal committments around the published roster. Similar operators like Bacon and Flybe have agreements in place which allow pilots to refuse last minute changes and give compensation if they choose to accept.
If we could make progress on the above we'd be a more contented bunch - and I haven't even talked about the payrise.:sad:

Couldn't agree more.

Very, very regular Midland SLF here and you have my full support in your actions for better conditions (if the way they're treating you is anything like the way they're been treating regular customers since last summer, I can fully sympathise). But it doesn't look good if you're getting free tea and water when the revenue pax sitting around you have paid upwards of £260 for a flex economy ticket and still have to pay for their cuppa. Stick to the top issues, and good luck.

MrBernoulli

It's not about losing focus and fighting for the "wrong" thing. You need to understand - it's all about EROSION. A once free provision, now has to be paid for. It's going backwards and that's what needs stopping. No matter how small it sounds. When joined to all other "gripes" it just adds weight.

saymachnumber

Your conditions are similar to baby's. We also get hoyked around without notice and suddenly you're on a 4 hour later finish from what you've planned.
It is inconceivable that this could continue for much longer. I have heard of pilot's refusing extensions to their duties lately. The airline is like a wounded animal, literally staggering around and relying on a few people that may have any sort of goodwill left in them to "help" prop the program up.
Days off are bought in a frenzy. You're never safe from crewing trying to collar you, even if you're up to 98 hours!!! Always answer your phone drunk if you don't want to work extra.

Terrible state of affairs, echoed in many other airlines, and most of these appalling management styles, and the erosions of Ts and Cs are copied from Ryanair, which is, guess what, non unionised.!
But hopefully, that will change, and as others have said, hacked off pilots will support each other, fight back, and improve conditions and SAFETY for crew and pax alike. Good luck guys.

I'd like to ask you a genuine question - WHY are you paying £260 for a flex economy ticket when you have to pay for your own tea and coffee? I don't get it. With the greatest respect why do you not vote with your feet?
Do remember that cabin crew or flight crew when travelling either off duty or on duty spend a large amount of time in a VERY dry environment. You have to take in far more fluids than you would otherwise have to. Please don't begrudge them a free glass of water to maintain their health.

On the other hand, free coffee and tea are diuretics and make you even more dehydrated!

JW411

Then mate, they'll have to be given more and more.
At the end of the day dehydration is not acceptable in aircrew.
If you've ever flown you'd know it.:ugh:

AP

Sorry, a bit of thread drift here but from The Coffee Science Information Centre:

Quote

Q: So will drinking coffee make me dehydrated?

A: No, coffee is an important source of fluid in the diet and moderate consumption, of 4-5 cups per day for the general population, will have no adverse effect on fluid levels in the body. In fact, experts in nutrition state that coffee can contribute significantly to daily fluid intake.

Q: I have read that I should drink a glass of water for each cup of coffee I consume – is this true?

A: No, the diuretic effect of coffee in moderate amounts is no greater than water. The British Nutrition Foundation confirms this by stating that you do not need to drink more water to compensate for consuming caffeinated drinks.

Unquote

You really should not believe everything you see and read!

Indeed not, especially when your information comes from an organisation which represents the interests of coffee manufacturers!

Anyway, back to the thread...
Do you work for Midland? If so, it isn't a very good idea to encourage your high-spending customers to go elsewhere :hmm: I sometimes pay the £260 because that's what Midland charges those who need to get from EDI to LHR and back at short notice (fair enough...BA charges a similar amount). I stay loyal to Midland partly because of the lovely people who work there (those that still do). If I really want a cup of tea I can get one in the lounge or just buy one.
Regular customers are aware of dry cabins - we spend a lot of time in them, too! As I said, crew from both sides of flight deck door have my full support in this current climate...but it really doesn't take too much imagination to source your own food and drink prior to a positioning flight. If you want to take the issue up, why not ask for coffee and bottled water to be provided free in the crew room? Besides, if water is essential for health in the air, how come pax have to pay for it :E

Sorry yes I forgot - 55 minutes from EDI to LHR is a big strain. Your crew are doing 6 hours plus per day in that environment. If you are prepared to pay £260 and pay for your tea and coffee all in the name of 'loyalty' to an airline then thats fine, I wish we had more like you - Just don't go and complain about it in a forum like this - you have a choice.:E

My flippant comment about coffee and tea was meant to be a joke but it seems that some of you out there are totally lacking in a sense of humour.

Fuzzy112:

You quote research from the Coffee Science Information Centre in evidence!
How incredibly naive. When I was flying long-haul in DC-10s we had medical research prove that by the time we had completed a London - Los Angeles flight, the cabin was only 7% humid. (Very few aircraft nowadays are fitted with humidifiers). The human body likes the atmosphere to be around 90% humid.

Do you think that the Coffee Science Information Centre assumed a 7% humid atmosphere as their model when asked those rather basic and heavily loaded questions?

I was suffering from some strange symptoms after a long flight like this. For example, little bits of light flashing in my eyes and sought help from the aviation medics. I was diagnosed as being dehydrated. I was told to stop drinking coffee and to drink as much as I sensibly could of the nearest thing to water. I never ever had another problem.

Accident Prawn:

"If you've ever flown you'd know it".

I do apologise that 49 years of professional flying is not enough for you. I look forward to further advice from you. In the meantime, get a sense of humour.

BMI Pilots:

I do apologise for the thread creep but I felt I had to answer. I wish you every luck in improving your lot. I have had many mates who have been screwed by the management of BMI without so much as a by-your-leave.

Sorry, humour is lacking in bmi at the moment. If you have had your mates screwed by bmi management in the past then you of all people will know why. Perhaps you could cut me some slack as well. I am humbled by your superior knowledge. All I did was type Coffee and diuretic into a google search and thats what came out. I don't mind taking advice from people like you. It is when we get passengers in this type of forum making it seem like they have the faintest clue what is going on behind the scences on their aircraft. I would not for one minute be so patronising as to tell them how to behave or what they should do at their work. Why should we have to listen to such rubbish here?:mad:

Having been responsible in part for the creep of this thread, I wish to point out that access to tea and coffee is only one tiny issue, I am reliably informed, in a miserable morass of crew-unfriendly, demeaning and dictatorial treatment by the company.

All of this is stuff I have been told at the airfield bar.

Lets get some more detailed commentary from those at the coal-face. Unless of course, people feel afraid to speak out on this forum for fear of a witch-hunt and censure.

Roy
There is a thread running in the bmi forum. However, I think that those of us within bmi are loathe to put private thoughts on such a public bulletin board as this where they will be sniped at by those outside bmi. There is a reticence to hang out dirty washing.

What is needed is a response from us pilots that shows resolve and commitment to acheiving a respectful response from the company. That way we will get the deal we need without the acrimony of inter-divisional wrangling and back-biting.

In my view the only way to acheive this is by using the nominated negotiators (BALPA) - they are the only people that the company will deal with. For those pilots outside BALPA, it would be a positive step in the right direction if they would stop bickering - after all they benefit from from the collective bargaining in the long run.
Anne :)

The issues that are driving the pilots to ballot for industrial action do not revolve around tea and coffee provision, they are much deeper and all stem from blinkered management attitudes towards employer/employee relations.
Imposition of group pay awards.
Not paying said group pay awards for nearly 12 months.
Refusal of management to sit down and discuss issues, even when the Gen Sec of BALPA is the one requesting a meeting.
Unilateral changes to terms and conditions.
Loss of net income through management stupidity / arrogance.
Whenever I have positioned on Mainline, Baby or Regional the cabin crew have offered a 'crew coffee/tea' without fail. So let's drop the cr*p about tea/coffee.
A great bunch of flight deck / cabin crew led by the most inept managers I have had the misfortune to work for. Bring on the ballot!

Hear Hear Looker :D

ajamieson is a passenger who is likely to be affected when we go on strike and yet he actually supports the crews standing up for what is right :ok:. We are fortunate to have passengers like him/her. Allowing the thread to wander into making it look like having free tea and coffee when positioning is a big issue is :=. Okay it may be just another example of bmi's arrogant imposed changes on its workers but to focus on it is daft.:ugh:

As ajamieson says: stick to the big issue.

Anyone know when do we get to vote? bmi used to be considered a reasonably good airline to travel on, if not to work for, and it seems management are doing a good job of wrecking that too.



Bring it on.

babybaby :{