Jus been reading these posts and I understand that Captain's are not GODS in BMI, what a pisser Ive been under a serious miss illusion(or is that a Russian aircraft)) for a number of years and now a find out I am not getting a pay rise or the pension I expected I am definitely going on strike now, no but hang on Ive just read that letter from GL that came this morning seems like BALPA, (Budget Airline Pilots Union) are the culprits and are refusing to talk to mananagement, the Barstewards! So its all OK now lads Oh but hang on GL forgot to mention the pension talks, no looks like he forgot to say that BMI forgot to run the new pension plan past BALPA, well its an easy mistake to make isnt it as the deficit was only indentified in May but every other company new about 5 years ago.

Christ and these are the people running an airline!

regards to all Ex-God

Well don't know if anyone else saw the other bit of 'news' today, but more job losses have been announced......

Oh dear, the management seem to be starting the propaganda machine already judging the letter that dropped on the mat this morning. Get ready for the tales & spin of how honest & willing they've been recently to discuss things with our BALPA representitives. How nasty & unwilling the BALPA CC have been. Don't fall for it people, this is standard practice for any company facing looming industrial action. How come they're suddenly so willing to negotiate? Well the answer will be in the forthcoming ballot!

Regards, The Count

Which department now GMIDC?

Thats exactly why I left. I was sick of being told by management, "if you don't like it, then leave. There is a queue of people at Tescos that would gladly take your job". Eventually I did. Went elsewhere for a £5k payrise for doing less work, and better benefits too !!.

What they fail to realise is that those people at Tesco's are actually being paid MORE than what we were getting on the ground, without all the hassle of dealing with Mr Jumped Up Businessman who had just missed his flight.

There are some great people working at Bmi, and it amazes me how the company has survived this long, as it is run purely on good will in ALL areas.

I've not looked back since I left.

:hmm:

Bye Bye Baby
 

Ground Ops, due to the new crewing system that has been installed it's been decided that baby should support itself rather than relying on Big Bro.

17 new positions at baby, 23 to go from bmi = 6 redundancies. :{

baby leaving home will allow ops to concerntrate more on mainline and LH.

Makes you wonder, who's next!

Flying Frog

I understand that the new Crewing system is not yet doing as BMI want, auto roster for one. How anyone would believe it would auto roster from day 1 i dont know :\

2 lovely pieces of propaganda from TB and CR via e-mail,

apparently having done the round of crew rooms they are able to conclude that;

imposing the 2.4% pay rise this year was doing us a favour as it got the money in our hand that much earlier. :yuk:

the problems with the IR over sector pay is only costing us 36p a day :yuk:

the FOs should not think about the future, you're lucky to be here at all :yuk:

we're only doing this out of spite, to give the management a bloody nose :yuk:

We are doing this because you chose to ignore our warnings and your blunder has cost us £2000, we're doing this because you think it is acceptable to unilaterally change our terms and conditions, we're doing this because we're fed up of being treated as an irrelevance :ugh:

No roster system would work no matter how good it,there isnt enough crew for it to do its job properly
Now the crewing line now has an option to sell days off!:D :D

Rgds


K.I.L.:D

K.I.L.
I presume you mean that the willing to sell line is a good thing to avoid the unnecesary calls to crew who do not want to be bothered on days off.

Nobody should be selling days off at this time as the pilots at the bmi group are in official dispute with the company. Anyone who does is letting down their colleagues hugely and it doesn't go unnoticed as to who the culprits are. I just received an excellent letter today via email from Jim McAuslan. Hopefully the bmi senior management will realize the severity of their current stance. A strong 'YES' vote is now a necessity to take this forward and send a message to Donnington Hall. The pilots demands are not unreasonable and NT and friends should take note...

I remember the Company's refusal to even meet with Big Jim (BALPA General Sec) despite his drive up to the Hall in 05. What goes around comes around - I say this in a non-spiteful way. When will NT and the others realise that the most valuable (and expensive) resource in an airline which after all is a SERVICE industry are the people that work for it. STOP abusing, start managing, demonstrate some leadership and get the factory floor to work for and not in spite of. Non of this is rocket science. Why not build in a fixed rate pay-rise say for a period of 3 years and then build that into the Long Term costings? This annual agro would just go away and then the airline could concentrate on seeing further into the future than lunch-time.:ugh:

Now Now Count would that be bullying tactics.
After reading all the previous drivvle that some of the pilots have to say I thought you were against that kind of behaviour.
Or is it "do as we say not as we do".

Latest Propaganda Today
 

Would all idiots please take one step forward.

Best of luck from the Great White North to BMI staff who are suffering with clueless management.

We'd heard over here on the Pond's west-side about the infamous insulting of the BALPA rep, being turned away at Donington. A telling indictment on management disregard for the situation brewing in front of their eyes.

I heard a story, from a BMI Driver, in the early 90s, when the F100s were just introduced, Bishop stopped a meeting of his management to watch it climb away...

Tells me one of 2 things - Bishop is either an arrogant nutjob, or he had a passion for aviation which he has managed to lose, and piss off customers and staff alike,whilst stuffing his ample pockets full of fresh bank notes.

Tragic. What a shift from award-winning sparkling diamond service to fake shimmering diamante, no fault of those on the front-lines, needless to say.

The 'New Business Model' (NBM) has been universally dubbed as 'Nigel's Big Mistake' within the company. It was an ill-conceived idea at a time when knee jerk reactions were the order of the day. An initial improvement in the bottom line was more as a result of reduced overheads than increased revenue. But penny-pinching and loosing track of the big picture is a recurring theme these days, or is it just fattening up the calf to be sold off to the highest bidder?

A vast amount of business traffic have voted with their feet as a result, but BA aren't complaining boasting something like a 15% improvement in that department!

It is usually ill advised to look backwards rather the forwards, but only now can we see how good the 'Diamond Service' really was, and I for one really miss that scone and clotted cream! :)

Selling Days Off
 

OK Count, I'll go along with you in principle, but I do have sympathy with those who feel a bit vulnerable at present and see selling as an opportunity to put a bit more of the company's money in their pocket in case they find their pay packets reduced by their support for industrial action. There's still the mortgage to pay and new shoes to buy for the kids. There are of course the habitual sellers, it's their right to sell after all, but they may wish to consider whether their actions are warranted in the present circumstances.

YS

I'm sure that the 'habitual sellers' have never realised either that the are doing people out of jobs, commands and a more stable roster due to incorrect crewing ratios!

If you have to rely on selling days to make ends meet then it really is a sorry state of affairs! :=

Actually I think most of the habitual sellers realise it only too well and don't give a monkeys. The way things are at the moment aircraft would be parked up but for people selling days and whole weeks of leave, as you say it's a sorry state for a company to be in caused by sorry management.

Captainbordseye,
My statement was only to point that yet again the Company has tried to have magic performed from another rostering system (Number 3) only to find that it doesn’t work unless they have enough crew to start with.
Its been a while since I think they’ve done anything good!:ugh: :ugh:

Rgds

K.I.L.

Some more interesting thoughts from our beloved leaders

Whilst the sector pay fiasco has impinged less on the FOs than Captains due to the lesser amount of sector pay they receive it would be fair to say that most FOs aspire to the LHS and as such they have a vested interest in ensuring that their future terms and conditions are protected. Contrary to what TB asserts by my calculations FOs are worse off to the tune of £1372 pa net, assuming the IR edicts are implemented. The Company has given no guarantee to continue underwriting sector pay beyond this year

I'm sure that a more in depth search for the necessary funds will produce a positive result after the ballot result is known.

Non BALPA members could be in a potentially difficult position if a strike is called. I'm sure many would be reticent to break ranks and report for work yet they will not have the protection union membership affords if they don't report - time to join up guys?

Time to join up guys?--no not really, time to decide whether you want to cripple the airline. The reason that BMI is still with us is because the Bishop style of management has been concise and reactive without delay. Remember the 1-11s, remember London City?

Bishop is at the age were he dosnt need to work anymore, so think long and hard before you re-act to short term stupidity. He could sell the slots and walk away-- how are you fixed?

Yes, there is always a veiled threat in the background. A powerful motivator???
I doubt if the owners could stand the ignomy of selling up due to an industrial dispute. They would be laughed out of the business.

theresalwaysone

C172Navigator

You two above.
Just imagine if the whole world would be made up of people with the opinions you two seem to possess.
Where on earth (or in the sky) would we all really be?:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

C172 Navigator - I don't work for BMI, but I'm following this with interest. I'm really concerned that if your viewpoint were to prevail, you'll be looking at an ever-degrading set of terms and conditions. You need to have a long hard think about your position, IMHO.

Your justification seems a little flimsy.

We'd all like the additional money.

Its not hard to evolve an argument (done many times before) as to why this is strategically a bad thing to do. But then your post betrays a lack of strategic thinking IMHO.

Most of us do it because we're feathering our own nest. Lets not kid ourselves here.

I presume you are a pilot, who like me, has invested, perhaps, six figures in your training and acquisition of a license?

The argument that anyone with this kind of vested financial interest in job security, would gamely plough towards a course of action which would jeopardise this, is hard to fathom.

Maybe its you who is not thinking hard enough about the strategic consequences of your actions?

Which of the unions demands is unreasonable?

As I understand, to those aspiring to LHS occupancy, the bmibaby management suggest reading "The Southwest Airlines Way"!

The irony.

No Herb Kelleher here - relational competency? Where?

Four MD's in four years? Room for cynicism?

Has MOL and his LOCO cohorts got one over this industry? We're working for >10% less in real terms than four years ago.

Who is subsidising who?

Is the greed at the bottom of the institutional ladder or the top?

Are you so sure the wool hasn't been pulled over your eyes?

A vote in favour of industrial action is hardly the same thing as industrial action.

What is the budgeted top line for 06/07 anyway? What about the bottom line?

Is there a war-chest for A330 purchases if the Transatlantic market de-regulates? How much is the sale of one LHR slot worth?

Where is SMB on the rich list this year?

So many unknowns....

For gods Sake People
When will you lot realise there is no Money in the pot.
You all seem to think the group is lying and hiding vast sums of profit (there isn't any at the moment, and if you have your way there won't be any in the future either)
The strike will not acheive what you want it to, although I think you are all losing sight of what your objectives were in the first place.
-
Your actions will only jeopardise everybody elses future, if your not happy just does all a favour and leave.

bmi mainline strike issues
 

The main issue in bmi mainline is clear.

An agreement in late 2004 was accepted by bmi pilots and bmi management following a protracted series of negotiations, pilot meetings and ballots throughout that year.

This agreement covered three years - 2004, 2005 and 2006.

The most important part of it and the golden carrot to bmi mainline pilots was the 2006 element.

That said that a survey by independent consultants would look at bmi mainline pilot packages in their entirety and compare them with what other airlines were giving their pilots.

A very important part of that agreement was that data relating to BA and Virgin pilot packages would not be excluded from this exercise. Up to this time bmi management had always dismissed claims for any comparision of bmi mainline pilots terms to those of the main competitor airlines at LHR.

That survey took place in 2005 and negotiations were then meant to commence for the 2006 pay award based on the survey data.

bmi management then decided earlier this year to ditch the whole agreement and imposed the corporate pay award on the pilots and said that that was the end of it. No negotiations, survey binned , the end, we're not talking about it.

So basically the signatures of the bmi Personel Director and Flight Ops Director that appear on the agreement documents from 2004 are completely and utterly worthless.

All the negotiations in 2004 were a complete waste of time and we have been strung along by bmi management for the last two and a half years.

How they can expect us to to be taken in by their current promise of talking about 2007 to solve this defies belief.

How can we ever trust a written binding agreement signed by the same company directors again ?


As someone has already said, Midland management must have invented the term "Machiavellian" and for now this is what the "m" in bmi will always stand for with the present set of management.

None of us want to be in the position that we are in now - but bmi management through their own actions haven't left us with many choices.

captbirdseye -

You are wrong and judging by 99% of entries on this thread, you are in opposition to the vast majority.
I suggest that you leave, as your future may be jeopardised if you stay.
Just imagine that there'll be a huge majority of YES votes. What are you going to do? Go to work? Don't make me lough.:{

Foolshole I am not wrong, although yes I do seem to disagree with the majority posting in PPRUNE on this topic
-
But let me assure you I am not in the minority overall, I think that you will be very surprised, the bombastic approach BALPA have undertaken is probably doing them more harm than good.
And let me assure there is no backing from Cabin Crew , Ground Staff, ops, Crewing, engineering etc etc who all also have an important role in the company.
-
We shall wait and see I just hope that common sense prevails and we do not cut our noses to spite our face.

There will always be a minority of people who are willing to live off the efforts of others. To date I don't know of any non BALPA members whose principles are such that they refuse / donate to charity any pay increase earned by the efforts BALPA.

This is just a fact of life and I don't lose any sleep over it, however it is hardly a stance to shout about.

I don't think anyone ignoring an industrial dispute will be viewed in a warm and friendly manner. If they choose to go to work then that's their option, but like I said before about working days off, it doesn't go unnoticed. You will be ignoring the vast majority of your colleagues and basically crapping on the pilot profession as a whole. Quite frankly, it's dispicable. You obviously don't understand the process that is required to improve the way we as pilots are treated by the management.

Captbirdseye

The issue is that Pilots know if they go on strike and the Company folds then they will get other jobs, albeit probably on less money, not where they want to be, and working harder (except baby crews).
From what i've seen of mainline bmi rosters they are fairly cushy (compared to low cost, charter, freight, BA etc).

Everyone else is in fear of loosing their jobs, not how much payrise they did / did not get. The public support will be thin on the ground when as the BBC Midlands state, Pilots "go on strike over low pay". Yeah right.

Or if the Company gives the Pilots a nice payrise they will take it back from somewhere else, lay off loads of Staff in the Hall or outsource something else.

At the end of the day you guys have a choice, move on the grass is always green.

Dr. Spin It is no comfort but - every companyis doing the same, irrespective of what line of business they are in.

As to think that Bishop will sell off and walk away? I do not see that happening. There have been countless well documented times when he could have done that in the last 20 years and he never has. I expect that he will die whilst in the chair at the head of the table, or he will go down with the ship.

Sabena, springs to mind.

birdseye:

You have got this awfully wrong mate. I am Balpa.
Nothing can do me more harm than a management that isn't managing to manage!:= := :=

Firstly, I dont work for BMI, but am as concerned about the gradual deterioration of pilot T and C's across the industry as the next person.
IMHO, it is the likes of C172Navigator, who fuel management fires.
Do you think you will get a medal? Promotion? All you will do is show management you know how to grab your ankles. I am assuming you work for BMI R, do you really think Uncle B will remember your dedication in a years time? NO! You will still get a forced base change, etc, when it suits him.
Make as much money as you can, because if you get a reputation as an individual who will compromise all of his peers for his own myopic agenda, I dont think you will be swimming in job offers.
Are you suggesting it will be like the miners strike - oil barrels at the crew room door and flight crew chanting "Scab"?
Its a small industry, chanting is not normally necessary.:yuk:

Bundyboy, I know you don't work for BMI, but that sounded like a threat to me, as have a few previous posts. And you want pilots to be treated as professionals...?

A little selfish don't you think?
 

And I’m sure that you would also be willing to forego any improvements in you salary, terms and conditions, and pension when a favourable outcome is reached since you are obviously happy with all three. :hmm:

Your are probably laughing down your sleeve by saving your 1% BALPA subscription, and will just quietly accept any ill got gains.

It is a very narrow-minded and selfish attitude, and a little immature to think that no one will ultimately care.

Just a little advice. I would keep your opinions to yourself at work lest you wish to reap the onslaught, at a detriment to CRM. :oh:

There is no 'I' in 'Team' and you don't sound like the team player anyway. I hope all goes well with your Thompsonfly application! :E

here here,
all for one

rgds

K.I.L.