Jet2 Sector Pay
 

757 operator. I have no connection with Ardacre or Maat other than they may also work for Jet2, I have no idea who they are.

You are correct I have not posted before. You have stated you do not work for Jet2, may I suggest you look after your interests and allow us at Jet2 to takecare of our own internal matters.

I am quite sure neither I or other pilots at Jet2 need your guidance.

Well Boeingmann, judging by your one and only highly constructive post I'm not sure that you'll be a success at that without outside assistance.

The world is full of people who jumpe to the wrong conclusion like you assuming I, Maat, and Ardacre are all the same person. Who needs your guidance, not us at Jet2 thats for sure. Save your guidance for the airline you are currently working for.

Boeingman
 

It must be very reassuring to have all the answers to all the questions. Do you ever accept criticism or advice?

You may have a gripe with me, but at least I will listen to all opinions, no matter where they work. Experience cannot be learned all in one lifetime and we do well to use the knowledge acquired by others.

Like flying, you learn something from everyone you fly with, some good, some bad. It's then up to you to filter what you envisage to be the good stuff.

I welcome the input from Pilot Pete and 757 Operator.

Silverhawk and 757 operator. Who is singing from the same hymsheet now ??

Silverhawk,

Thanks for that. I didn't interfere frivolously. Except for you, nobody seems to be trying to unite the Jet2 pilot force. I suspect that many pilots are with you, but with no Pprune posts of support I felt that your efforts could use some recognition in the face of some unpleasant opposition.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but word has it, on the financial streets of London, that Jet2 is in fianancial difficulty. PM has allegedly been sniffing around venture capitalists to try to raise more cash but has not succeeded, they simply don't believe that Jet2 can compete with the bigger, more realistic low cost carriers. :ugh:

Therefore, it doesn't matter which union you join your poor, dismal pay, anchored at the bottom of the UK scales, will continue because PM & ID possibly cannot pay you any more than a derisory amount.

With a post like that JFP most of the rest of us can see how incredibily naive you all are at Jet2. How on earth do you expect to continue to trade when every other loco is flying their crew to 900 hours per annum? No wonder PM had to sell his aircraft then re-lease them back.

RNS Number:5273B
Dart Group PLC
13 April 2006

Dart Group PLC ('the Group')

Pre-close Trading Update

Dart Group PLC, the aviation and distribution group, issues the following
trading update relating to the second half of its financial year ended 31 March
2006, ahead of the Group's preliminary results announcement scheduled for 15
June 2006.

Trading Before Exceptional Items

Second half trading has been encouraging in both Aviation Services and
Distribution. Accordingly, the Group remains comfortable with current market
expectations for its year ended 31 March 2006. In the second half, further
investment in the aircraft fleet was made with the acquisition of a Boeing 737
Quick Change aircraft and a Boeing 757 passenger aircraft.

edited to add that market expectations are a profit of £12 to £15 million.

Still got the clubs
Very intresting post. The winter leave thing got me thinking a bit. To Be honest the summer has not gone great so far, lack of aircraft due late engineering inputs causing 3 extra aircraft to be subbed in. The inpending expensive move of the head office from Boh to Lba. You have me a bit worried now a cashflow injection may be needed....
Hope I find out soon as I dont fancy moving to sunny Leeds to get shafted.
The Gimp

I for one do not trust still-got-his-clubs' motives. Who does he work for now?

If you take into account the pay and conditions, pay-per-pilot-hour in Jet2 is roughly the same as in Ryanair or easyJet. We fly less and get paid less. Also, remember that some Jet2 pilots are working much harder, ask the Leeds guys.

Would this QC be G-CELO ?, this aircraft has been returned to the Icelandic register as TF-ELO because of engineering issues.

The only new aircraft I know about is G-LSAC (757) due an airtest and entry into service mid month.

Not forgetting AD which is also due to enter service sometime in June, if not July.

I've just checked the CAA database, G INFO. All Jet2's aircraft are registered as being owned by the Dart group.

I also checked the G INFO database for a light aircraft that I know that has just been bought by a friend. That aircraft is registered as 'Potential change of Registered Ownership in progress'.

So how can one check that still got his clubs information is correct?

Rudder Pedals,

Be nice if they had told us in Ops about the mysterious AD, we could then perhaps have prepared the necessary paperwork.

It takes longer than one or two months to arrange all the relevant manuals and certificates before an aircraft can be added to the AOC etc. and we have been told nothing as yet !

ILS

Maat. Could it be the latest QC we have bought staying on TF and be operated by us via an Iceland AOC with our crews having validations as before?? There may be a certification problems with the cargo door on this aircraft.

Boeingmann

Spot on the cargo door is the issue... seem to remember same problem with last islandic transfer and the heavily delayed pure freighter!!! Again the costs are mounting due bad planning and risky purchases. The Yes men are saying it too much to Pm for me. :ugh:

Bartelby

Surly a development such as this would of come in the way of an official announcement via the dart group??

It is a petty that you have not used your time after leaving the company to understand business and finance in general before posting the above........ :=

Going loco, do you remember Air Europe? How about Laker? Ever heard of Sabena or Swiss Air? Is the Captain of the Titanic familiar to you? All claimed that they were safe, doing well, better results than expected & look what happened. :{

Trainer too 2, you are living proof why the one thing that PM has got right is your new sector pay. You are worth only £2.50 & that's stretching it! I am telling you what was discussed in The City, not hearsay, sunshine.

Maat, all jet2's aircraft are not owned by the Dart group as such, PM went through an exercise of flogging them off & then leasing them back to raise much needed cash, don't forget that these figures would appear in the profit that Going loco tried to impress with.

Think about it & your derisory sector pay, lack of negotiation, moving ground staff to cheaper offices & an area of lower salaries after so many years in BOH starts to make sense, doesn't it? It seems that everytime someone tries to open your eyes to, what to everyone else is the bleedin' obvious, a certain number of you get very aggitated. Just wipe the sh!t out of your eyes & you might just see the freight train coming that's about to hit you. :ouch:

"Maat, all jet2's aircraft are not owned by the Dart group as such, PM went through an exercise of flogging them off & then leasing them back to raise much needed cash, don't forget that these figures would appear in the profit that Going loco tried to impress with."

I do remember Air Europe. Success story of the UK, then aircraft parked up with no indication of thing awry with the company.

Which is why I wondered how one could check the ownership or leaseholder of aircraft. The registration plate on all our aircraft I have been on states Dart Group as owner, the CAA database has the aircraft registered to Dart group. The last company financial statement states that 20(?) of Jet2’s aircraft are owned by Dart. I don’t doubt what you say, but, as your first instructor probably told you, never assume, check.

Which returns to my question: How can one check the ownership or leaseholder of an aircraft?

So when did this alleged 'sale and lease back' of aircraft take place? It still states on the dart group site that the group owns 20 737's.

Still Got His Club.

The office move is due to BOH wanting the site of our offices for their own expansion. Leeds area is not an ''area of lower salaries''. If any one needs to "wipe the sh!t" out of their eyes is you.

still got his clubs....don't bother mate: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, as the saying goes.

The problem with the Jet2 jockey's is their amateurism and general lack of avaition experience. It shines through throughout this whole thread and the previous threads, generally regarding this airline's shoddy, low standards. ID got a round of applause from his minions in Manchester for giving the FOs £2.50 per sector and the Captains £6.00 :D it say's it all.

They are in the low cost sector and some of them think that it's fantastic to only be flying 40 hours per month when everyone else is flying 90, they are happy to be paid less. MANBLK hasn't factored into that the fact that they have the largest bill for contractors of any other loco, the nodding dog, NH, will tell you that this is all ok, though. He doesn't think about the airframes standing idle on the ramps of Northern England earning absolutely nothing (in fact costing) while they are not in the air. They won't survive at this level if they continue as they are. Fact. Their yield & load factors aren't good, how's the loads on the BLK routes or the EDIMAN?

I believe that PM has in fact sold on some of his aircraft & then re-leased them back. If he hasn't yet then watch this space. Why does he insist on recruiting people with low hours who will pay for their ratings? Because, 1) no experienced person will touch them unless they are contractors, 2) he can manipulate and bully them into taking piss-take level pay increases, 3) he can bond them and force them into staying with his tin pot outfit, hell, he even tries that one on with guys who made the mistake of going there already type rated!

How many of you who have had a pop at Silverhawk have got his experience & years in the industry? I don't think his plan is the best idea put forward but at least he's trying to achieve something. Boeingmann's mum probably still sends him to work with a hanky and his name written in the back of his jacket and yet he rips into silverhawk without anything constuctive to say.:=

As I've said, still got his clubs, don't bother....:ugh:

............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

I'm impressed.... 14 pages before the first of the trio of Jet2 bashers appears.

Well done Pulp Fiction, those anger management classes have obviuosly started working :D

ILS

Back to the sale and lease of aircraft. I thought most of the aircraft were paid for with mortgages. What would be the point of selling the aircraft to pay off the mortgage then spend money on a lease? That would not free up any cash, would it? Can't see that PM would of made a profit on the sale of aircaft.

Since still got his clubs hasn’t advised me how to check the ownership of Jet2 aircraft and whether they have been sold by Jet2 and re-leased, information which he must have had to make his post asserting that Jet2’s aircraft have been sold and re-leased; also Pulp Fiction posts:

“I believe that PM has in fact sold on some of his aircraft & then re-leased them back”

And he has not told us how he got his information; is it logical to assume that this information is in fact either based on un-proven hearsay or even the posters wistfulness?

Pulp Fiction posts: “How many of you who have had a pop at Silverhawk have got his experience & years in the industry?”

Do you know Silverhawk PF? Or are you assuming that Silverhawk has got has lots of experience & years in the industry? - Not a pop at you Silverhawk, I admire your motivation, I just think you are wrong about the T & G and joint representation with CC.

Pulp Fiction also posts: “They are in the low cost sector and some of them think that it's fantastic to only be flying 40 hours per month when everyone else is flying 90, they are happy to be paid less.”

Well yes! I don’t want to fly 90 hours a month, I want to be home every night and I want enough money to pay the bills and enjoy my life. Since I can do this for half of what a RYR Captain gets paid, why work more than I have to?

“The problem with the Jet2 jockey's is their amateurism and general lack of aviation experience.”

Do you include the ex Loganair, ex Monarch, ex Emirates A330/340 Captain based in EDI in this statement?

Or the ex Orion, ex Air2000, ex Brunei, ex Gulf Air, ex GO Captain based in STN?

Or the ex Virgin Atlantic A340 Captain based at LBA?

(Lots of others I know, but that is a fair spread of bases)


With respect to you PF, if your goal is 900 hours a year and as much money as possible then that part of your post “general lack of aviation experience” applies to you.

The question remains, for any to answer please:

How can one check the ownership or leaseholder of an aircraft?

according to the plaque on the aircraft, owned by Dart Group PLC, Wonder who they are? possibly the holding company for Jet2.com. What a funny coincidence that is. Cant' think why PM would want to seel them to his own company. Gee could it be a because all of the Jet2 aircraft and formerly Channex are all in the same boat... owned by the parent and leased to the subsiduary!
Here here Maat,
Box

The Brass Plaque in St Peters Port is surely far more important BoxJ99 ?

Learn to read your end of year accounts boy , or better still buy me a couple of pints of best and I'll explain Voodoo Economics, Trusts, Liens and Forex Swaps. It will be the best investment of your sector pay for years. P+L it's all in the wrist action and can be done on the back of fag packet!

PS the foocker loadies are comin to get yer!

Freight Doggy

I look forward to it with baited breath although I prefer my reading material more highbrow than company accounts ... the Star or the Mirror LOL

I look forward to our session with Shuperstar its always good to find out what trouble he's in now!

all the best mate, give me a shout when you're up here next and we'll go and dicuss the creative book keeping!

Box

OI!!!!
Wot trouble am I an now???? I'm already duty rumour at LBA!
Just coz two gimps in another thread have no idea about security!!!
Pilots think security is two big geezers in bomber jackets throwing them out of a bar!!!

Remember Box we are all owned by Dart Towers!!!!!

Yes the foooocker loadies are coming...............!!!!!!:ok:

Hi Maat,

How about the German ex-everything Captain who went on to fly for Helios (with the tragically predicted result) because your management ignored the FOs, two Training Captains, and a line Captain when they all flagged up that he couldn't actually fly?

How about an ex Dan Air Captain who can't stay awake long enough to reach top of climb?

How about a 'Careful' Captain, has he managed to land in Chambery yet without polluting his pants?

My goal is certainly not 900 hours a year, Maat, it's just a fact of loco life that if you want to stay in business you have to be at the very top of productivity. You are naive in the extreme if you think that working half of these hours with aircraft sitting idle will keep an airline in business.:=

Pulp Fiction,

I don't think there's anything wrong with being careful!

As for the other people you mention, why didn't you raise these issues, or do something while you were at Jet2?

And how does all this have anything to do with Sector pay?

OS

So where are the idle aircraft? Defo not LBA, the ramp there is often empty.

idle?
 

jet2 impress,
There have been a few at Man generally (idle a/c), but that is changing with the night IBZ etc.. there will only be a few hours down time per a/c each 24 hr period.
Are the 757s over at LBA seeing a lot of action now?

Yeah, the 757's at LBA are being used alot more. I believe they operate 4 sectors each per day, covering TFS, AGP, ALC, PMI and occasionally FAO.

Jet2Impress!

Jet2 Sector Pay
 

Jet2's business covers three areas;

a) Freight - Long term Royal Mail Contract

b) Charters

c) Locost

Further our parent company, The Dart Group, has other interests namely distribution, one of the largest in Europe. All of this makes for a completely different type of business operation compared with the other locost airlines which only have the locost to generate revenue.

All of Jet2 737/757 are owned by the parent company and are purchased via mortgages. There is no advantage to sale and re-lease these aircraft as the cost will be much higher. If Jet2 ever needs cash
injection there are many other ways of securing it.

As for "Pulp Ficition" and "Still Got His Clubs". They have shown by their posts they have no knowledge of Jet2's activity or meet PM. Their posts are designed to undermine the confidence within Jet2. These
two are fools of first order and should be ignored until they disappear.

A caution –

Pulp Fiction / X-Centric and most likely the golfer are one and the same.

He is a disgruntled ex employee of jet2.com

Although his posts are vitriolic and juvenile, I sense where this thread is going ! (again!!!!!!)

Don’t rise to the bait.

Why doesn’t someone ask why he spends his (limited) home time on the internet - slagging off his previous employer (and colleagues) when he might be better served spending some time in the books and flying the aircraft to an acceptable standard ?

Of course, the answer is clear to the good people at jet2.com but not so obvious to the good people at PPRuNe. ;)

P.S. Pulp – the Captain who was “cautious”. I hope that even a silly, chip on the shoulder little fellow like you could learn something from that ?.

But probably not.:rolleyes:

"...when he might be better served spending some time in the books and flying the aircraft to an acceptable standard ?"

What do you mean by that remark, Homer?

Vim

So where are we up to about a union?
 

I've put my T&G membership on hold for the time being, in the hope that Jet2 BALPA members will get their union to organise a meeting of members and prospective members at Leeds and Manchester soon.

If they'll do that, I'll certainly go and listen and I'm sure many others will too. If they can't or won't, they clearly have an apathy with regards to Jet2 in which case they are obviously the wrong choice of union.