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I must not take the bait.
I must not take the bait. I must not take the bait. :E |
BACX
whats the matter mate. Green eyed about working for a !!!!ty little airline? Bird!!!! we may be but give me that over the pile of crap you work for any day. LF You are everything we hate about ex forces pilots. People think you're a wind up merchant. I don't. I've met them. NN |
Yes and you're everything I've come to expect from a civilian trained oik.
LF |
NN
The green eye quote may, or may not be correct. However the rest of your post is completely unneccessary! (Not to mention inaccurate!) CAT lounge not suiting you? |
lord FH
what a laugh!!! your profile really did make me howl!! three stripe captain!!! met them and most are merchant bankers!! you are no more RAF than a CSD. overpaid with attitude!! :-) |
I still love you Flashy.:rolleyes:
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Interesting thread.
I was originally attracted to the prospect of BA, believing that arguably the best salaries & T&C, plus the prestige and all the other benefits (pension aside) made an attractive package in comparison. I am willing to accept that all companies have their downsides and problems, and that you will always have a few w@nkers to put up with wherever you work. However, having read through this thread, I would now definitely NOT join BA. Not because the 'negative' posters have won the argument, but because the argument exists, and the fashion in which it has been conducted is diabolical. I have never seen such a bunch of squabbling, bitching old women working for the same company - if this thread is anything to go by, the atmosphere at BA right now must be absolutely toxic. Is the attitude to ex-mil pilots as expressed in here prevalent throughout your company? If so, another reason not to join. The simple fact is, Mil pilots (of whatever flavour) are trained and held to much, much higher standards than civ trained pilots - when we join an airline, we have generally spent 10-15yrs minimum, usually with 7-12 yrs of that in command, doing things with aircraft that a civ trained pilot could only dream of. It's only the money that attracts us, in the main. I expected that at least an ex-mil pilots sheer bredth of flying experience would earn them some respect (we've all done routes, LH, SH, MH, everything in between, day, night, good wx, sh1te wx, weeks / months away from home; plus a whole lot more that a civ trained pilot would never get to do) - perhaps i'm just naive. I must say that, despite the absence of T&Cs, long dets in the desert, sh1te pay, no unions to fight your corner, and getting shot at, staying in the Military looks quite an attractive prospect after reading this thread. For those who DO choose this company, best of luck. (meant with sincerity) 16B |
, Mil pilots (of whatever flavour) are trained and held to much, much higher standards than civ trained pilots - when we join an airline, we have generally spent 10-15yrs minimum, usually with 7-12 yrs of that in command, doing things with aircraft that a civ trained pilot could only dream of |
....but 4000+ hrs on transport aircraft is.
"If you're all so great then why can't you fly an Airbus any better than a non-mil pilot?" ....because you don't fly an airbus, you use the stick to ask the computer very nicely if it wouldn't mind moving the Elevators / Ailerons. Mil pilots are used to having full control authority over their aircraft. ....and we would know what to do with it if someone took a pot-shot at you going into BAH or similar, not an unrealistic prospect in this day and age. OK, a bit of frivolous banter, I admit, but like I said, breadth of experience..... |
Seems to me that most flight crew are at their happiest when moaning. It's the same across all companies. We need to look at what we're doing and accept we get paid well to do a great job, yes the social life suffers but would anyone seriously rather be in the rat-race working a 9 to 5 behind a desk?? Especially as Ex-mil, civvie or Cadet, we are all drinking buddies in the bar afterwards!!
I am in the following dillema, do I apply to BA now and get on the seniority list and then have the opportunity to move between short and long haul, or stay orange and have a command in a year?? from what i can gather about BA, I think staying put is the option of choice. |
16 blades, you obviously did so well during your RAF career that you're still flying a turboprop, so where does your knowledge of the Airbus (or any jet) come from ? perhaps you flew a few hours on the JP or got chopped on the Hawk and spent lots of hours in the bar talking about jets. But no doubt you'll tell us you WANTED to fly that aircraft rather than a jet, be it a small or large one :rolleyes:
Anyway that really doesn't matter, the point is, regardless of what you fly (and I did 20 years on Betty's payroll) you don't need to bring your attitude and arrogance to the civilian world. There are good, bad and indifferent pilots in the military & civvy street. I've now had 10 years on this side of the fence and was made to feel most welcome from day 1. Just because the rules are different doesn't mean they are any less of a pilot that you in your Hercules. I would recommend you remain at Lyneham. |
16 blades;
The arrogance of your post is dreadful!! Respect is earned not a right, no matter what your background is. In my experience there are just as many good or bad, tossers or good eggs from the ex mil background or civil. The good egg ex mil pilot realises that civil flying is a different job that sometimes requires different skills, fits in and works well with his crew. Read your posts again........ what do you think you are? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
I believe you have misread 16 Blades' post, as what I see there is not a message of extreme arrogance but a posting of fact.
The point is that there is a great deal of difference between the fabulous training that the RAF provided and continues to provide to this day, and the attitude that one is God's gift to aviation. I cannot see where 16 blades has stated (unlike Lord FH) that he is such. I can only see that he asks for a degree of acknowledgement of the the experience that he brings with him. The same goes for the wealth of experience that a self-improver who has flown in far more basic aircraft than most other people for a regional, or the cadet who was chosen as one of thousands who applied, and did a rigorous course to get where he is. Perhaps, rather than putting off all of us who aspire to your esteemed position, you should focus the attention of your wrath on the management who allow a culture such as this to develop. I seriously thought that with the amount of work that has been put into the training system within BA to ensure that CRM and teamwork exist that many of you could be more mature than this, as young airlines such as EasyJet are patently showing you up at your own game. Point of action - get off PPRuNe, stop whinging, and go and offer to write for the Fleet Newsletters for example. It might be easy to vent your frustrations here, but why can you not be more constructive and provide articles that nurture the positive culture that I know BA has. So long as you sit here doing nothing, management are going to write more articles and do more stupid things that divide the workforce and chip away at CRM. If you don't pull together, incidents like the stalled 777 will end up in a smoking hole. |
re heat, good post, however i do disagree with you regarding 16 blades, i quote;
"Is the attitude to ex-mil pilots as expressed in here prevalent throughout your company? If so, another reason not to join. The simple fact is, Mil pilots (of whatever flavour) are trained and held to much, much higher standards than civ trained pilots" is this a fact? or is it arrogance? Considering this person has no experience of civil flying I think it is the latter. He does believe he is better. |
16
everything you could expect an arrogant ex forces ****** to say. Stay put. Re heat Get some facts right (777???). Oh and try getting a pilot's licence. Its so much better to read something if you are dealing with an equal and not a "City" boy however annoying. NN |
Actually normal_nigel
I can't know precisely to which incident Re-Heat refers, but I believe we did very nearly lose a 777 a while back. And a very interesting story it was too! Maybe YOU should get some facts right! Think you should do some growing up mate, and take a closer look at YOUR attitude! Your posts seem rather immature! |
Has anyone heard anything about DEP recruitment at BA?
Silly me, I must be on the wrong thread. |
DEPs
The Director of Flight Crew announced last week that some contracts will be in the post by the end of September. N.B. The plan has probably changed since then! :D |
Tandem
"I believe" "very interesting" blah blah blah Grow up. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. If you think that discussing almost "losing" a 777 on a public forum you obviously have a really mature handle on things. That will really help BA. Prick. If you must know the only recent "incident" which in the end was a none event was on a 744. Now who should check their posts? NN |
The "stalled" 777 was not a "recent" incident, unless there has been another one.....
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Gentlemen, please!!!!
My last post was tongue-in-cheek, intended as some light-hearted banter, as I alluded to at the end. My postings here have not been intended to offend - if they have, I apologise. The point I was making, and thank you Reheat and Tandem for spotting this, was that the SCOPE and BREADTH of military training is far beyond that in the civil aviation world. Airline pilots are not trained to fly transport aircraft at 250' (or lower), in hostile environments, often on NVGs, to airdrop stores to ground forces or ships, or land on remote short semi-prepared strips. If you read through my posts carefully, nowhere did I say or imply that ex-mil guys are BETTER PILOTS than civ-trained guys, just that the range of skills we have developed are much broader. Yet this thread seems to imply that ex-mil guys and the experience they bring to the civ world are not valued very much, at least not at BA. Yes, I am fully aware that civil aviation is a different kettle of fish, but surely experience on the mil transport fleet is relevant? You guys make out that it is worthless and not welcome. I am not arrogant about flying - arrogance in the air will get you killed, whatever you fly and whoever you fly for. I certainly do not think I am gods gift to aviation - far from it. I will admit that I have never flown a jet - and whilst I did, like almost everybody, join the RAF with the ambition to fly fast jets, I was never given this opportunity, so I do not know if I would have been good enough. And no, I wasn't chopped anywhere - it was a case of ME slots that needed filling at the time. What IS obvious here is the vitriol directed at ex-mil guys in BA, deserved or not. Virgin seems like a much more pleasant place to be right now. 16B |
normal-nigel
Nice one, I haven't laughed so much in ages! |
Lots of ex military types in Virgin and they are generally pleasant, nice folk to share a flightdeck with. They generally only talk about their exploits if you ask them (usually worth it!) and I have yet to meet one who says out loud that he/she is superior to everyone who didn't wear a green (or red) flying suit.
There were some jokers a few years back who thought that they should jump the seniority list simply because of their background but they were given short thrift from the powers that be. Anyone like Lord Flashart would be unlikely to get through the selection process unless they could disguise that incredible arrogance for a day. The whole point of the process is not to find out if you can fly upside down over Scotland but if you are the sort of bod that you could stand being with for 10 hours in a flightdeck and several days in a hotel. This point seems to have been missed. |
normal nigel,
You're not management are you? :{ |
Tandem
Do you laugh when you don't have an answer then? Come back when you get a licence. Love child Def not NN |
16 blades,
I accept all your comments. You will need one more skill when you arrive though. Working as a co-pilot for a younger Captain. Too many ex-mil guys don't 'get the picture' until they've got a reputation that is hard to shake off. Oh, and if you fly manually in a civilian jet try to remember that their are a lot of people behind you. Smooth. P.S. I heard that whenever the wind gets up you all sit in the mess. Is that why your x-wind landings are so ropey? |
normal-nigel
What kind of answer were you looking for? Did you ask a question? What kind of a licence would I require for you to consider you were, "dealing with an equal and not a 'City' boy"? normal? nigel? I don't think you're either. You sound more like a 'Simon' to me! |
Mods - please can we close this thread and have one that is of use to those interested in joining BA instead of the slagging match that it has decended into.......:\
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It is getting a bit long and unwieldy. If anyone wishes to start another thread on this subject , go ahead.
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Well a professional one issued by the CAA would be a start.
Try CPL or ATPL. Oh and the insult was cutting. Ouch |
At Jet Driver's request, I've started a new thread to continue the discussion about DEP recruitment and Terms and Conditions.
NN, I'm sure Tandemrotor can defend himself, suffice to say he's suitably qualified to debate you on here. :E |
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