numbers to be recruited
 

This financial year is 127. Good luck to those of you who apply.

By the way, I'm 100% behind getting new DEPs a better pension deal.

Come into this with your eyes wide open. The airline has a great deal to offer and is excellent to work for . . . but be prepared for :

1) working every weekend,

2) no leave during your childrens' holidays,

3) no respect from the management,

4) and being treated with utter contempt by the grossly overpaid cabin crew.

Lord Flashywatzits doesn't really exist, but if you are ex-mil, or a very experienced charter operator, be prepared for some "Senior" FO colleagues to be condescending. No offence, but it's their immaturity and inexperience which leads them to believe that seniority is more important than experience. Problem is . . . BA is driven by seniority.

Let's try and get this bloody pension changed.

Right enough typing!

Hey Top 10 what about the Night Athens from LGW, it is SH at LGW. 2045 to 0525, that to me is night flying.:cool:

Yes, Blackball - you're absolutely right...missed that one, and the other ones's probably coming to the Airbus like the night Larnaca come Autumn.

Better make the most of it while the sun's up.

:)

Top ten
can i ask what you meant about 500 hours turbo prop ? did i miss something? dont you have to be type rated? thanks

Type rated 400 & 777 guy's - where from ?

Maybe a few guy's from EK or Singapore but where else ! think BA will get plenty of 320 folks apply but may struggle with type rated long haul seats !

Good luck to all who apply !

Literally few from EK.... those that aren't still bonded probably have commands by now!

as was mentioned earlier flt ops have been allowed to recruit 127 this financial year. Trouble is we have nearly 170 retirements and a slighly increased flying program. Not sure how management intend to fly the program as there just ain't enough crew. I expect they want increased productivity from us to cover this but with many LH guys flying close to 900 hours annually....

Any luck ones joining direct in longhaul will be almost certainly on the 777 as most vacancies are there with a very few on the -400 if at all. Prob only type rated ones.

I doubt anyone from EK will be interested in BA, then again there's always the odd wild card:D

I will be pretty surprised if we get many type rated guys onto either the Triple or the 400. Trying to work out where they'd come from as I can't imagine too many people want to quit VS these days, or EK as someone has mentioned. Equally, are there many ex-pats in Hong Kong or Singapore who aren't sufficiently established out there to come back to the bottom of a seniority list?

Not criticising anyone who comes across, good luck to you all. Just curious as to whether the T&Cs on offer would be good enough to tempt the people they're aimed at.

Equally though, I can't imagine we'll have a shortage of people for the 'bus, particularly if you don't necessarily need a type rating.

What would a DEP on the -400 expect to earn p.a. or monthly take home. Also how many hours per year are you contracted and what is an average amount of days off a month.

Just curious

We're effectively contracted for the full 900 hours on all fleets. You will find on both the Triple and the 400 that you will do around 800 hours per year before any over time. If you do any extra above your rostered hours, you will get paid either your 'hourly rate' (an agreed figure of about £30 per credit hour ish as a year 1) if you volunteer for extra hours or one and a half times that if you are drafted. I can't speak for the 400, but on the Triple, there's unlikely to be enough space in the month for them to fit any extra work into. The Triple tends to do shorter trips overall.

For both fleets, expect about 14 days off per 31 day month, plus leave. Expect £2800 ish per full flying month after deductions at year 1.

That's a lot less than I thought longhaul guys and gals at BA were earning. To compare what does a SFO on these fleets take home? Say, someone at the 5 to 7 year point? I know time in the company makes a big difference to the basic but how much difference does it make to the take home pay? Just interested 'cos I've got a good mate in BA on the -400 and these figures don't tie up with the figures he gives me. He's been in BA now for 8 years - just didn't expect such a massive difference. Cheers.

for SFO's depends on a few things. Deductions can be different for each person: some contribute more to their pension, family medical insurance, BALPA subs, recreation clubs, share save etc.

PP10 SFO 777 take home is around £4000 pm month for a full months work - around 86-92 hours. Obviously less for leave months as we have quite a lot of variable pay compared to other airlines although a lot less than it used to be.

At the moment a lot of overtime available due short crewing so if you wanna do extra you can and earn a lot more.

As a pp7 on the Triple, I take home £3.6-3.8k per month based on a full month's work (CAP) and max pension contributions, with no overtime. BALPA subs, etc. are still to come off that. As I said, on the Triple there's rarely any space on the lines for overtime. However, if we recruit enough new guys.... :ok:

Assuming barnstormer is at pp10, he'll be senior enough to get credit efficient trips which will allow him time to do extra work.

Mactom It doesn't seem a lot of money does it? Bearing in mind a plumber in the SE can expect to get close to those figures.

Ah yes but once all these new plumbers come on line salaries will plummet, just like the IT boys salaries did. One £100k a year IT guy recently drove me home in his taxi....you can't get on a plumbing course for love nor money...

£2800 in the first year isn't too hot but the longterm figures PP10 and PP7 are good.

Don't think they'll have any problem recruiting but they won't get me :(

Always wanted to work for BA but live in the regions and happy with my meagre £2700 net (after pension contribution), 14 days off this month and no night stops!

Scottie That's a good attitude to have. Most of us that can live outside the SE of the U.K do so. Unless you bought property 10 yrs ago, it is very difficult to afford anything decent for less that 500K. BA's salaries don't cut it I'm afraid. The regions used to be an alternative , but alas, no longer. One of the reasons the -400 is so popular is that it enables one to commute. Latest figures from Ops is that over 1/3 of the fleet now commute by air. Lord knows how many more drive for a couple of hrs from the Cotswolds or the Midlands. Another option is to go part time. Again, very popular if you can get it!

Been there - done that !!
 

I joined BA as a DEP on the - 400 a few years ago, having been up to then a Captain on A320. I guess I joined because I wanted to prove to myself that I could get into BA and because I felt like a change of scenery. I was fully CAA rated on the - 400 with about 4000 hrs in the right seat of the Classic and -400 combined. My rating was still valid, i.e it was less than 5years since last LPC had lapsed, but BA gave a complete type rating course to everyone, followed by about 16 long haul sectors to check out. SO WHY DO THEY WANT - 400 RATED GUYS, if they're going to do the full course all over again?

Anyway, I only stuck it for about a year, as under the bidline sysyem the junior guys get ALL the crap, i.e. endless standbys and no stability. Plus the money was crap compared to what I could make on contract as a A320 Captain.

So, my advice is: if you want to get a - 400 rating for free and try longhaul, definitely apply. It'll be a feather in your cap if you get in; you will have proved to yourself you're as good as 'the best'. But if you want to have some some chance of a command before you die of boredom on 14 hr sectors, don't.

Busjetdriver

So where are you working now? Do you do short term contracts,?
I would be interested to know what other options are out there for Airbus drivers.

Cheers
cib:)

busjetdriver

You are absolutely right. Wonder how long it will be before BA have to start bonding people for type ratings? I'm sure it wont be long! What a sad reflection on the 'World's favourite!'

For a long time now, BA has been 'just another airline', and T & Cs are constantly being eroded.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that even if you were CURRENT on the type you joined BA on, you would STILL get the full course!

People considering joining BA should think very carefully about your post!

I wish all those who want to join BA well. It’s not the company it used to be though. The work is getting harder and harder, and a relatively sizeable proportion of your duty time is spent faffing about, not flying aeroplanes.

Against that background we have a management that is determined to destroy the professional status of flight crew, and treat you like fork lift operators. We are in all likelihood about to go through a bloody and acrimonious dispute on the lines of Cathay Pacific – The Empire Strikes Back.

By all means be enthusiastic to join the World’s favourite, but please come in with your eyes open. You’ll need to think about your own circumstances, and whether you can afford to make your own independent pension provision. There is a very real chance that BA pilots will be on a par with Aviva bus drivers by the time they’ve finished with us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/roobarb/gallery/birdman.shtml

GUYS

QUOTE
"PP10 SFO 777 take home is around £4000 pm month for a full months work - around 86-92 hours. Obviously less for leave months as we have quite a lot of variable pay compared to other airlines although a lot less than it used to be"

By my Calculator again ( previous post ) this puts BA First officers on about 80K plus.

I wish you all the very best but if a F/O is getting 80K i hate to think what a Captain gets,and heres me thinking all you boy scouts did it for the love of flying!!

86 - 92 hours as well that means your getting close to Working a 23 hour week - i take it this is the part time thats being refered too?

"Well thats me" - not a very educated post... obviously you spend the time at the desk. Oh well

Maximum number of flying hours in a year = 900 => 75 hours per month

Maximum number of flying hours in a month = 100

So by doing 80ish hours a month you will get close to 'maxing' out your annual hours. So 23 hours per week is full time. Also remember that these hours are block times, not duty times, which can be a big factor in shorthaul - you may spend hours between flights.

Most -400 and 777 pilots can expect to do 800-900 hours per year, and if one were to join the mighty airbus fleet you can expect to do around 750 hours per year. Mostly by day and frequently at weekends!

Pay attention at the the back of the class Well Thats Me,

Not a BA pilot but my roster on shorthaul has 80hr block flying time but 160hrs duty per month, so that's about a 40hr week then. Seeing as I work a shift pattern of 6 and 3 a busy week can see me working a 55 hour week!

CS + Scottie
Conceded - My mistake but it was a partial windup,i knew the hours quoted were flying times.i just didnt know how that related to real hours reporting.

I was trying to make comment about posts - "The moneys not that good anymore " - i and lots more here consider 80K + for a F/O to be very good considering ( and i know you will correct me here ) a SFO position occurs by default after a set time - ie you just have to wait,and its all for a average working week.

BA went to great lengths last year to tell the world that the new pay deal arranged specifically for flight crew made the shorthaul crews the " HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ".

That’s hardly surprising is it? They’re not going to tell us what a bargain they got, are they?

http://www.sausagenet.freeserve.co.u...barb_laugh.jpg

Hello 111boy - to your question....

DEP's will initially be required as ZFT rated - this is to be trialled with pilot's 500hrs min. straight onto the Airbus fleet.

No type rating required.

If you're (or anyone else interested) see www.britishairwaysjobs.com/cc/pilots/index.jsp

Good luck!

It's not all doom and gloom..

:)

Roobarb
I guess your right but at the end of the day you voted for it ( By Majority !! ) and it was a better deal than any other sections in BA.

" HIGHEST PAID IN EUROPE ". Is not something BA can boast about in engineering thats for sure!!!!

To the guys that answered my question on pay points - thanks.

To 'Well that's me' - yes 80K a year is good money, particularly in the right seat. I took home 4200 this month as a Captain at Easy and I have to say I am generally very happy with my lot (bring on 5 on 3 off though!!). But don't forget this profession is very difficult and very expensive to get in to, I carry a lot of responsibility so I don't feel I am overpaid having forked out 50K and lots of effort to get where I am today! Cheers.

Mactom
Thanks for a honest reply.

BA is well paid for Pilots - when BA incorporated Cityflyer into it a couple of years back some of the City Captains doubled their wages ( The Licensed engineers took a pay cut but that's another story ).

I can and do understand the outlay for a CPL / ATPL and the constant worry of medical issues etc,all my comments were addressed at the BA pilots who seem to feel hard done by,lets be honest the American big carriers pay more but most are in the process of going bankrupt.
80 - 90 K for a F/O at age 40 looking towards a command and then retirement at 55 sounds good to me, and i leave the field open for anyone who disagrees.

PS Some of the Engineers i know have paid out well in excess of 10K of their own money for training / Exams etc ,i know this is not comparable to your own but when your getting paid 25K its a lot and never gets recovered.

American carriers do pay their pilots more but it is not that, that is bankrupting them. If only it were that simple!

Boeing 7E7

Of course its not that but it certainly doesn't help,the point i was making is they cant Afford to pay their crews what they do anymore than BA they can afford Ivory towers and plastic spoon managers - you know what i mean,if you think of it there's no wonder the LCC have had such an effect.

Were it not for slot regulation etc the LCC would obliterate the longhaul market as well.:ugh:

I am a DEP and now fly the 400 for BA having done my first four years on the 757/767. The money seems very good but I have to say moving with a family to the South East to work shorthaul was costly and only a move out of the area will free up some of my salary. I can commute now on the 400 but would have to return to the South East for a shorthaul command. DEP's tend to be older than cadets and there is definitely a cut off age where joining BA will mean that you will never really be senior in the right or left hand seat if you follow the normal career progression (shorthaul fo longhaul sfo shorthaul command longhaul command.) You will therefore always be working weekends bank holidays etc. Luckily I was under 30 when I joined and now on longhaul have reasonable choices for my roster. If I leave the south East I will give up the opportunity for a shorhaul command but will be quite senior on the 400 and will have a great lifestyle. I enjoy working for BA and was very pleased to have been selected. It is a huge company that looks after its pilots better than most other UK airlines. However as BA each year reduces the gap by chipping away the benefits the moral especially for those that have known nothing else is low. Small companies can have low pay and ordinary terms and conditions but can be great fun to work for my last one was. You know the engineers the ground staff and all the pilots. BA is more like being a contract pilot you go to work do your job have a good trip come home and never see that crew again. Do you want the money or the lifestyle. This is just a heads up for those who want to join I wouldn't stop anyone from applying but if you are over 33-35 you will never be senior and the above will apply. The only warning I would give to all new entrants is that the pension change for new joiners will mean that you would have to pay a large part of your pay into the new scheme to have anything like the pension conditions we now luckily enjoy. Balpa are trying to mitigate your loss but the support for new entrants from those already in the airline may be limited. Good luck to all those who apply I hope you find that the grass is greener here I did. :ok:

Thx JAZ for the info. Thats just the facts I have been looking for since this thread was started.
I am in a pretty good RH position on the -400 with my current company, but one cannot help looking around!;) Having had a look at the BA webpage it is clearly stated that only pilots with a UK issued JAA license can apply. Does anyone here have an idea of how the procedure is these days for, say a Danish JAA-ATPL beeing validated in the UK?

Keep the shiny side up!

Most type rated pilots joining BA do a shorter conversion course, unless paired with someone changing types that requires the full course. Hence some DEP joiners do the full conversion course, and some a shorter course. Its still necessary to complete AWOPS/LPC and SOP training so a minimum of 4-5 details normally on the 320/777/744 fleets

As I said some get the full course...many don't. This changed about 4 years ago

Zak

Is Command time really 15-20 years?

Could well be. When I joined in the late '80s I flew with 20+ year co-pilots. At that time there had been no expansion, no retirements and many BA sponsored pilots who were lucky to gain commands in their twenties who then sat in the LHS for the next 25 - 30 years!

I was lucky and gained command after 10 years because the aforementioned people have been retiring at a rate of knots for the past 5 or 6 years.

However now we have the cadets sponsored by BA in the early 90s gaining commands in their twenties............etc., etc.

Expansion (not anytime soon) could change that and people like myself who joined late will be retiring in the near future BUT 10 - 15 years might be realistic.

As someone who has worked for other airlines the pay and conditions in BA, despite the unbelievable whinging and moaning from those who have never known anything different, are both very good.

The pay, hotels, bidline, choice and quality of aircraft, staff travel, pension (for incumbents), and a few other less tangible benefits are second to none.

On the negative side we have so much internecine jealousy, especially between pilots and a notable proportion of cabin crew amongst others, that it is actually not the most pleasant of companies to work for in many respects.

When I joined I felt at last that I was secure but now the future is far less assured than many believe.

On balance there is nowhere I would rather be and I know which side my bread is buttered but with the continual erosion of terms and conditions, the latest being the loss of a final salary pension scheme for new joiners, the decision is far from clear cut. Especially for someone over 35 - 40 with some seniority elsewhere.

M.Mouse
 

I thought your post provided a well balanced and objective view of the situation in BA.

In the light of the new pension arrangements in place for all prospective employees, coupled with other factors (such as time to command) one would need to make sure that the prospective move was looked at very objectively.

You will work with some fantastic people in the air and on the ground.


Regards
Exeng

gotta remember as well that in LH your monthly downroute expenses can add up especially on some of the longer trips. I reckon most people spend around £300 plus, which is a lot more than I spent when I was on SH.

ATB

ONCECIMBER,

You should in theory be able to work in BA with an unrestricted JAA ATPL NOT necessarily issued by the UK CAA . The burning question is whether BA will hire pilots with licences issued by other JAA countries and not the UK. With the present flight ops management and specifically the man in charge ( PoD for those wondering who he is) I do not believe this will happen. I hope I am wrong and wish you luck.

Best regards

The Viking