So from the 4000+ pilots Ryanair has, as far as I am aware of, only one came out to publicly criticise the negotiations between MOL and pilots, and that's Captain Imelda Comer. Everyone else has done it anonymously which didn't help much.

Ryanair statement on her letter:
"This letter from the so-called “EERC” is entirely disingenuous and is signed by a contractor pilot who has already resigned and is leaving Ryanair on 31st October as she confirmed she is moving to Asia. We will not be corresponding with, or replying to, the claims made by this so-called “EERC”/RPG/REPA or any other front set up by competitor pilot unions,"

Why is she the only one speaking up? Why are the Ryanair pilots such cowards that they would rather see this profession go down the :mad: hole than do something about it?

Pilot who has worked with Ryanair for over 10 years criticises negotiations in letter to Michael O?Leary - Independent.ie

One actress finally got the message out about a powerful and abusive man exploiting others and now Harvey is in rehab (aka hiding from the press and hoping it will all blow over).

Ryanair Captain Imelda Comer has bravely stepped into the limelight but now needs others to follow her if you're to achieve something similar within the airline industry. You've got to go public about just how exploitative Ryanair is towards it's workforce. At the moment the press seems open to the story but this won't last for much longer.

Ryanair pilots: get organised collectively and DO something to improve your own Ts & Cs. Actions speak louder than words.

To get real change/gain one has to be willing to risk everything, and that is easy to suggest/demand for they who are safely on the other side of the fence. It is also a relatively low risk for they who are on their way out regardless, and therefore ineffective.
I have myself been in or close to similar situations 3 times, and recorded 1 win and 2 losses. But even a win is usually just temporarily/pyrrhic for they who stand out in public on the front line, even if it benefits the anonymous masses. As long as the company survives, management will win in the end because their resources are mightier, their patience longer and their memory in the form of personell records are forever lasting. In certain countries the legal deck is also stacked in their favour. Sample: You can be out the door tomorrow but your case won't be up for months or years. In addition to that the usual legal won compensation being relatively miniscule and reinstatement unusual.

Situation at Ryanair aired in Irish parliament
 

So much concern..... the room is empty

Nor any interest from the Minister to change status quo.

Irish politicians are morally corrupt just look at the amount if tax havenship they provide. The Irish CAA even worse.

Inquiries into the Irish banking sector as well as the Moriarty Tribunal reports make for very (long) but insightful reading into the corrupt connections between politics, regulators and vested interests in Ireland. Tax dodging appears to be the business model of choice.


Report of the Tribunal of Inquiry into Payments to Politicians and Related Matters Part II


REPORT of the Joint Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis

Clare Daly is a champion of labor rights and labor principles, condemning both Ryanair and (previously) Norwegian’s convoluted labor schemes that undermine labor rights and labor principles by circumventing direct employment. She also has a talent for using applicable adjectives. The chump response to Ms. Daly is concern only for passengers’ rights while ignoring the rights of those responsible for passengers’ lives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7h6...ature=youtu.be

Analysis of the Supreme Court of Ireland decision in respectof Ryanair ERC’s is provided in the link below. Supporting the Ryanair appeal was that no Ryanair employee pilot(s) gave evidence or were identified – Link:

http://doras.dcu.ie/17031/1/M_Dohert...ed_Version.pdf

The Supreme Court decision should be appealed on the following grounds;

The regular announcements by the CEO that pilots only work 18 hours a week demonstrates a mindset that precludes any constructive labor negotiations by the current representative body, the ERC’s – a body established by management. Although pilots elect representatives to the ERC’s, the pilots (employees) have the right to choose the body to present representation – an internal council or trade union. Clearly, the ERC’s and their kind have been unable to achieve sufficient improvements to prevent the exodus.

The Supreme Court decision is only valid in Ireland. The EU has ruled that at bases in Europe, Ryanair is deemed as being an employer domiciled in that Member State and local labor laws shall apply - EC 44/2001, Section 5, Article 18.

It is not necessary for directly employed pilots to plead with Ryanair for no retaliation guarantees to organize or join a trade union - legislation already exists and referenced in the analysis link. Agency and self-employed contractors have no such protections. Consequently, directly employed pilots must take the lead for the benefit of all. The problem is;

If only 25% of Ryanair pilots are direct employees and 75% are contractors with no labor protection with Ryanair, then it requires the vast majority of the 25% to act, but how many of the 25% accept the reported abuses and will not act?

The EU Commission previously funded a study on the malignant cancer of Atypical Employment in Aviation and its adverse affect on safety - the safety of passengers (those with the rights) - Link (7MB):

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdo...viation_en.pdf

It is interesting to note that officials failing to condemn atypical employment are usually secure in direct employment (EASA, member state regulatory authorities, FAA and DOT).

And where is ECA in all of this? They sometimes issue platitudes condemning such work practices, but where is a full-on hard-hitting warts & all publicity campaign to name & shame and so try to protect the industry they are supposed to represent?

If there are the European commission or European ASA or any other European institutions publishing edicts & judgements that are then being ignored why is the European CA to bringing the culprits to task? Is that not one of their remits?

Another consideration in the claim that MOL wants to make RYR pilots the leaders in LoCo payment: why only LoCo? He claims to be the largest airline in EU; he claims to have the best pilots; he claims to make the most profits and be the most financially secure, so why limit the benchmark to LoCo? Why not be the best 'remunerated' B737 pilots in EU? That would include the whole package, not just a 'finger in the air' income. It would include all the other niceties that the older B737 operators throw at their crews. If you claim to be the largest and best and most successful then put your money where your mouth is. There is plenty of both.

Imelda has already resigned to go to another airline and therefore there can be no repercussions for her.

At some point the turkeys are going to have to vote against Christmas. To continue the zoological analogy, can a leopard change its spots?

Many other captains and first officers have resigned, I didn't see them come out and publicly stand up to MOL.

What about the long term captains that are up to retirement, what's stopping them from publicly coming out?

Interesting times ahead
 

Peter Bellew to return to Ryanair, commencing December 1st. His role will be COO.

Malaysia say his departure was 'unexpected'. Wonder how much his head hunting is costing Ryanair.

Another individual despised by the majority of FR pilots.

I heard that alright. When I worked there, he joined after I did. He was initially quite approachable etc. But alas, Ryanair's cancerous ethos struck him too.

I am watching people standing waiting for a Ryanair flight that has not landed yet as I would most weeks if Mol can do that.? Everyday.
You have no chance of being treated as a human beings . I don't feel sorry for the pilots but I have the greatest sympathy for the cabin crew. They did not have many options.
The pilots are well enough paid on permanent contracts and contractors know what they signed up for and had choices to make before they signed up.
I however do give credit to the way pilots have not be drawn in by the media and wish you all the best but your fight is not about money and is all about being treated as human beings.
You should wake up before you lose public support.

Much tougher job for him this time round now the pilots and cabin crew have started to realise who has the power.

Carpe diem or in English, seize the opportunity, is where Ryanair pilots and cabin crew must now be at. I sincerely hope you all stick together in the face of what I see to be the most unpleasant corporate bullying tactics I can imagine, it is possibly worse than those used in North Korea.
I am not aircrew, just an aviation minded business owner who values my employees; because while not appearing on the balance sheet they make the company what it is, and what our customers like about us. And I also understand, appreciate and reward the support we get from their families, when we all need to work long and inconvenient hours to finish a job or look after a customer.
In my view the ethics of Ryanair as a business stink, I will never forget their decision a long time ago to charge extra for disabled passenger facilities. It might be the Pound Shop of the aviation world, but at least that company treats its staff and customers well, otherwise they wouldn’t have any. How does any employee (or contractor) proudly wear the uniform or tell friends, new and old, they work for Ryanair? If I met someone who said he/she was a Ryanair Captain I would feel sorry for them rather than have respect.
I have only once travelled with the airline, it wasn’t disastrous, just unpleasant, mainly because the cabin crew were a bit like zombies doing what they had probably be told to do and nothing more.

If I met someone who said he/she was a Ryanair Captain I would feel sorry for them rather than have respect.

I think any Captain who is incharge of an $80 million jet carrying 200 passengers deserves some respect!
Being a Captain is a difficult job, probably even more so flying for Ryanair, especially when you take into account the challenging airports Ryanair fly into. In my view the only difference between a Ryanair/BA/Virgin/Thomson/Easyjet Captain is the paint on the side of the aircraft.

Peter Bellew to return to Ryanair, commencing December 1st. His role will be COO.

Having left a reasonably stable outfit for the sunshine, why would he return knowing there is a hiding to nothing awaiting. Own bed can be attractive, but.........the new seat will be hotter than the one he left previously.

...flying for Ryanair, especially when you take into account the challenging airports Ryanair fly into.

Are you sure? There are many many challenging airports RYR choose NOT to fly to, but others do. I'm not sure of which particularly challenging airports you refer to.

Marchettiman - There are plenty of employers offering better T&C's for flight crew these days. However, don't feel too sorry for me. On my salary I'm in the top 2% of earners in the UK.

My next airline will both pay and treat me better I'm sure, but as far as feeling sorry for me and worrying about how I tell my friends I work for RYR. Firstly they all know, and secondly I'm on 3 times more than what my mates make, one of which is an architect.

I wear my uniform with pride because of the hard work I've put in to get the stripes, and the way I conduct myself. I care not if someone such as yourself, who doesn't know what it is we actually do (bit like the CEO) feels we don't deserve any respect. That won't be keeping me up at night.

Are you sure? There are many many challenging airports RYR choose NOT to fly to, but others do. I'm not sure of which particularly challenging airports you refer to.

CCN circle to land. 4’ path. 1800 meter runway??

What airport is CCN?

Carcassonne, France. The correct code is CCF.

Circling isn't challenging. 4 degree slope isn't challenging. 1800 meter runway - flap 40, autobrake 3, detent 2 reverse stops you in less even at MLM.

Oh Peter is back with a special mission....What does that do the Chief People Officer Eddie the eagle? :D:D:D:D

Get the pop corn out....

The transformation of the relation with the crew will be in line with the change to a nice Ryanair... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNUJ_td7eJc

I'd rather do a straight in if possible!

I could flop mine out on the table as well but I doubt you have a ruler long enough.

Joking aside, the point being made is that Ryanair routinely fly to the smaller airports so routinely fly approaches other than radar vectored ILS approaches, even if they don't necessarily fly to all of the hardest cat C airfields. Although I suspect you already knew that.

To be honest when I see the disruption caused by some of the trickier, cat C destinations I have to wonder if it's worth all the hassle. Albeit from a mere mortal line pilots perspective.

Let me guess the reply

.....cat C airfields, not tricky

I wasn't going to say that, but... ;)

What Ryanair labels CAT C other operators don't.

im sure sky gods like Chesty will nail it every time in CCF or PPG in a howling mistral, or the circle into Comiso, or Pisa at night, or the VOR 33 at CIA, or many other favourites. These are all significantly more challenging in terms of getting it right consistently than the vast majority of legacy short haul destinations.

It was much more fun hands on flying than what I do these days, and you certainly earned your money a lot more.

Fundamentally, FR pilots are well trained professionals who deserve pay and condiotions commensurate with that status. The return of PB isn't exactly calculated to further that end!

LNAV/VNAV then - not challenging.

Quite, but we don't get to choose our destination.

All depends. My current airline calls Salzburg Cat C. My last one didn't. It's the same airport now as it was then. So, from who's perspective are we commenting?

Jwscud, nothing to with my position as an aviation deity. If you find a 4 degree approach challenging I suspect you shouldn't be in the position that you're in.

Ah, is it the employer that makes a destination more of a challenge?

Just wondered if the Telegraph story is correct in that Ryan are sending "begging" letters to their ex-pilots asking if they would consider returning?

...and do they put stamps on the envelope or expect the pilots to pay to get the message?

Yo Chesty !

You come across as an absolute hoot to fly with. Can't beat over confidence and a total belief in one's absolute ability to ace an approach, and show lesser mortals how it's done.
A couple of points :
You can't use VNAV on the westerly runway in CCF. For some reason, they were allowed planning permission to build a medieval tower on the extended runway centreline.
From what I remember of the original Chesty Morgan, (1970's 80's porn star, for all you younger contributors out there), you'll need your personal 4deg approach in order for you to see the runway.

The RYR guys, despite the benefits of VNAV and of RNAV approaches lined up with the runway centreline, have to fly NPA's most working days. Other airlines don't. It can be a challenge, depending on the level of experience of the occupant of the other seat.

Also, Peter Bellew was a good guy. Then he drank the Kool Aid. Eventually he left. Now he's returned. He may well have mellowed in Malaysia. Time will tell.

This is the email I got today from Ryanair...

It has gone a long way from "RYR cancellations".

And daily RNAV where available is one thing: glad no-one mentioned visuals. That would really create thread drift. Please NO.

Sorry TangoA. Time we all went back to sleep.

You can tell from a post?

A NPA isn't really challenging either. Which other airlines don't do NPAs most days?

Maybe somebody who has only worked for Jet2...