To those on here who trumpet the ever growing profits of RYR, in the apparent belief that it indicates all things great and good, they should reflect on what has happened to the T's & C's at the same time.
I imagine that school physics experiment of 2 silver balls hanging on a string pendulum in a frame. You deflect 2 similar balls outwards and them release. They meet in the middle with balanced energy and stop in equilibrium.
Now you enlarge one ball and repeat. What happens is the smaller, more vulnerable ball, is shunted back from where it came with derision and contempt to have even considered entering the fray. David & Goliath it ain't.
One might argue that the profits are the bigger ball and the T's & C's have been crushed under that boot.

Soon or later they would have to change their T & C if they want to contract decent and enough pilots for their operation. It is a fact and nothing can change that. It is very simple. Nowadays the demand of qualified pilot is growing exponentially. There is no companies bancarupt even every single company is offering a job, times change, this a new cycle a new era...

Have they done that in the past? Apparently there are skippers taking home 6k to 7k or even more and F/O between 3,5k and 4,5k which is average in Europe nowadays. From what I have been reading, in my opinion, I think they should revise the benefits package and introduce local contracts.

Yes but need to catch people outside Europe and the only way is putting much money on the table

For now their trick is to offer them the base they want and sending in-house pilots away from home. It seems to be working to attract pilots from other companies, it always works perfectly for pushing in-house pilots out the door!

It is not enough, it was enough for some people last years but not now and they know.

7574ever, yes, but if they keep doing that sooner than later they will be facing a another issue which is people entering from one door and leaving through another. Indeed they need to do something to atract suitable candidates.

Samca, do you really believe they will open its fat wallet when they don't even give a profit share bonus?

Yeah, that's what I thought would happen but so far they are managing, don't ask me how. I have been hearing the same rumor about next summer being the one when the :mad: will hit the fan (regarding crew numbers) for years and it never happened so far.

As to increasing T&C's, personally I doubt there will be any significant change for the time being (upwards anyway). As I said, basing seems to be working for now. At least in the country where I'm based!

In my base they are calling from month off and days off Capts and FOs very often to fly. LTCs, CPTs and even FOs are leaving (10% approx in 6 months, overall). I joined just one year ago from another airline, and I'm also asking myself how are they managing to do it... A lot of new planes delivered every months... T&C will be only changed if they are forced to do it if you don't agree with them just leave, they say...

In my base also calling people on vacation and days off for flying. Exactly the same thinking like you

They have to my friend, if not they will continue earning money of course but less than expected, we are in a point that the people that wants to work for this conditions in Europe are here, there is no more people that wants to accept this T & C. It is finished, no more companies banckrupt for the coming years so. The only way to fishing is ? Money?

And every meeting starts with "we have a lot of money but we are not here to talk about salaries"

Indeed, they should adjust the package on offer. Apparently FR is short of pilots although they are looking for DEC offering 120k gross provided if you fly an whatever amount of hours, and no benefits at all. Soon the so advertised best roster in aviation will not be enough.

The roster and its stability is very good.
But they are proposing it as a benefit when actually it's something "free" for them, we are anyway flying 900h a year...They are trying to make it only with cadets, a good gamble...!

Why doesn't someone with all the data publish the T's & C's of the major players in UK? To those who think 120k is a good deal, with no benefits, will be astonished at what is available with some attractive benefits included. And that is also with acceptable more sympathetic rosters.
In my day, what I liked about sympathetic rostering, & rosterers, was my ability to request single or double days off. It was nearly always allowed and built into my roster. Thee was no fixed pattern. Guys claim that a fixed regular roster allows forwards planning. It also, always, guarantees disappointment if your dice falls on the wrong square. I could plan forward with something so simple and human as a request. If I had to then I took a few days leave. We hear even that is not allowed in some of these fixed roster airlines. Guys having to go sick to get married is sickening.
I suspect many of the guys who trumpet the benefit of fixed rosters have not experienced anything else. I agree they would be better than a forever changing roster; no doubt. I once worked for an airline where the daily changes reached rebellion proportions; the worse case being where a month's planned roster did not achieve a single duty as planned. The result was an agreement that any changes greater than 3 hours start time had to be voluntary, including any knock-on effect. Any changes in planned days off the same. The head rosterer was seen kicking the cat, often, but it was that or have no captains.

I still don't see why guys, who want fixed rostering, don't campaign for 4/4 instead of 5/3. With efficient rostering productivity would not suffer, but fatigue would reduce. Flexibility might suffer, but a good payment for days off working might help, voluntary only and only the first of the day off block. Some more imagination on both sides; but difficult if there is no bargaining forum.

The Roster is an advantage but it depends, sometimes the 5 days working are really hard and long with 4 sectors and 12/13 hours Duty that makes you arrive home like a zombie.

They try to attract experienced pilots, both CPTs and FOs because they are short of crew. But how?

By making you pay for your own license conversion(600EUR), ID card(200 EUR), own hotel expenses during training, own transportation, uniform.
Then they offer experienced FO's (with 3-4000 hours) a basic pay of 1100 Euros a month after tax?
Ridiculous.

I don't know when they will realize that in order to find pilots from other airlines these conditions need to be improved.

There will always be a willing supply of fools/tools out there prostituting themselves .........

I don't think so... at least not now

Couple of questions re joining as DEC (I work for a worse company) -

What are the chances of an EMA base (at joining or later)?

For the British pilot commuters - can you get parking at EMA/STD whilst you're working at your European base?