Aerologic
 

Hi

I have a screening for aerologic in november and i was wondering if someone could give any info about the roster and salary & benefits.
i have no type rating for the 777 at the moment flying airbus.

Thanks!!

Do you really need to be fluent in German?
Or the company can give the chance for you to learn?

Fluent in German

You have to be fluent in german.

As far as I know you have staff travel with LH, work about 15 days p.m. and fly mainly to HKG.

Hi,
here some information from first hand:
-Must be fluent in german or you have to learn it
-atmosphere in the flight deck is realy good, a great bunch of people, except of the famous 1%
-Training department encourages you to fly manually as much as you can or want (AP and A/T Off). There is no punishment for an Go-Around. Training in the simulator means that you don't have to be scarred!
- 15 days guaranteed off every month, so it's like Part time
- usually 3 rotations per month, flying hours are between 40-70 hrs, in the summertime a bit more, so 90 hrs is realy an exception
- between two rotations you'll have 4 to 7 days off
- homebase is Leipzig, but 90% of all Pilots are commuting
-40 days vacation per year
- in case of longterm sickness, Company pays Basic salary for six months, standard in Germany is six weeks
-Part Time is possible, you can request up to six months per year, if granted
-salary is lower comparing to other longhaul Operators, but have in mind that you only work 15 days per month, so your Lifestyle is good
-we have layovers in LAX (six days),ORD,JFK,CVG,PVG,HKG,SIN,BKK,MAA,DXB,BAH,BOM,BLR
-hotels are realy good, 5 star, located in the City centre

So, good luck for your screening.

thanks EAM

Any info about the money??

Any idea on Aerologic growth plans? Can they add more aircraft considering their relationship with LH and LH Cargo? Will they add more airframes? Obviously this will impact upgrade time and salaries.

@Iver
I cannot predict if we get any further airframes, there are always rumours about new equipment for the Last two or three years, i think it all depends what will happen next year with LH Cargo, as you know, they have another five T7 on order, but no one knows where they go. DHL, who owns 50% of AL, is not realy interested in buying new aircrafts, thats my impression. For expansion, we need definately additional airplanes and this will of course impact upgradings and recruitment. We have plenty of Senior First Officers waiting for an upgrading, but I think not enough for 5 new aircrafts, but once again, we might operate the next years with the same number of aircrafts, aviation is like lottery!
By the way, starting salary for a Second Officer is 40k Euros, maximum for SFO is 95k Euros, a Captain is starting with 108k Euros, 170k is the limit, it all depends of your previous experience!
I know that the money is less comparing to EK,EY,QR or TK, but i prefered to stay in good old Europe and not going to the sandpit, it's so simple.

Hi,

When you apply and when did you receive the invitation? I am still waiting for a reply at all.

So they can take pilots not speaking german but willing to learn it ?

Less than EK, EY, TK etc. is a bit of a joke, 45.000€ gross for a FO is less then most LoCos like WIZZ or Germania are paying and 15 days off is nothing like part time.
Unless you are very optimistic, it seems quite unlikely that new a/c are coming.

But lets give it a try and you see what you are getting, it all depends on your alternatives.

Very true. Aerologic is indeed not a bad company to work for but as you say, it really depends on where you are coming from and what your alternatives are.

Some bits of info from me with rose-tinted specs off:

Language: Except for a handful of individuals who got in early with the right amount of experience needed at that time, fluency in german is a hard requirement. At least at a normal conversational level.

Company Culture: Generally good, however latest developements concerning establishing a works council and such have lead to some 'questionable' behaviour from management and coupled with lets say 'questionable' decisions (not getting into more details in public) in the past years, crew morale, especially on the FO side, is rather low. Still on the flight deck expect to have a good time with in general a great bunch of people.

Rosters and Duty: Yes 15 working days is awesome but as EAM said, far from being part time. I was with the company in the hard times, with 8-9 days off and 90-100 hours a month and from my opinion with the kind of flying we do, what we have right now is necessary to sustain a healthy life.

In general, 3-4 Rotations a month is a good guess, hours depends. East Rotations have generally more hours than West Rotations, but 70 in a normal month is a good guess. Then also expect some standby duties in Lej (yes you have to be there) and the ocassional night trip to BRU or EMA and back. Rosters once published are pretty stable in general.

Vacation: 40 days, but OFF days are reduced with a 2:1 ratio.

Staff Travel: Lots of ID Agreements for a cargo airline, commuting also possible on DHL.

Salary: As stated by Bill Boeing and 20% of that salary is tax free. 2€/h (48€ a day) per diem. Keep in mind that during vacation or sickness, your tax free allowance is reduced by the number of days and you will earn less. Also don't count on the per diems as part of your salary, you will(!) spend them downroute in case you don't want to go to McD every time.

Expansion and future prospects:

Expansion might or might not happen in the future, more likely from LH side than DHLs but don't count on it. Even then, there will most probably be no quick upgrades anymore and i would expect 5-7 years+ minimum. No expansion will let you stay in the right seat forever. Why? Lots of captains are between early 30s and mid 40s and generally we have more captains than we most probably need, so i would not expect any significant amount of upgrades with even 2 additional aircraft right now. In addition, within the 1-1.5 years, there will be 20+ SFOs ready for upgrade and in 5-7 years, almost every F/O in the company right now will have the experience required to upgrade and they will all be in front of you.

Also keep in mind that your salary progresses quite slow, if you come into the company with some experience and an entry level salary of 55.000€, it will take you 16 years to reach First Officer Maximum. And then, you will still join the Captain salary scale almost at the bottom.


Bottom Line is, it's not a bad job or a bad company and within germany with our ****ty market you will have a hard time finding a better job offer right now but come here with your eyes open and know what to expect. Take everything what is promised to you with a grain of salt and base you decision whether to join or not on the facts at hand.

Best of luck for your upcoming interview in Nov :ok:

Thanks for all the answers!
For me everything sounds ok except the salary.
It is really low!!
I have 3400 hours mix of turboprop and airbus time,for the company i work i make neto flying 70 hours 3500 euros approx 90 hours almost 4000 and i can get an upgrade pretty soon.
For me it was interesting to fly long haul, but although the atmosphere is ok at aerologic the payment is too low for me.

Hi,

Baldi will you attend the Screening or will you cancle it due to the T&C?

Anyone else already invited?

I still have no answer.

Anyone, knows something about the assessment first day and second day sim screening?

Cheers

Widebody jobs in Europe are few and far between. Always amazes me that while you're young you don't see that the older you get the more time off you need to recover. Starting pay isn't great but if you factor in the additional 5-6 days a month you get off over a low cost carrier it sounds like a good gig.
Would you rather do 20 short sectors a month for your 70 hrs or 6 long haul?

At the end I refused.

Good luck to all going to the screening!!

@Anotherday on long haul you need the 3-4 days that you get more to recover from the jet leg and the 18h duty.
And to make it straight, pay is not great.....its ****. I know there are a few guys who joined Aerologic because they can say "I am flying a 777".
If you just go there because auf the a/c, then you should think again.

Probably was considered a good stepping stone by many for an eventual jump to the ME carriers - but now those ME carriers look increasingly awful in terms of QOL and flying fatigue. Now Ryan and Easy look tame when compared to EK in terms of flying fatigue.

Wish there were more options like the Euro legacies where you can fly both SH and LH in your career if you so choose............

Exactly, the airline is now full of kids with 200 hours from some flight school in Germany, willing to work for peanuts.

I know of an ex-colleague who went there about 5-6 years ago with quite a few thousand hours of experience and back then he made about €2500 after taxes + a few hundred Euros in per diem. I also looked at some of his duty plans and they are killing IMO. If I remember correctly three man crew HKG-ALA-LEJ or LEJ-ORD-LAX and stuff like that. :{

The area around Leipzig is relatively cheap but also totally boring, and if you think about moving to Berlin (about 1,5 - 2 hours to the airport by car depending on traffic and where you live in Berlin) with AL's pay you can barely afford to live in a reasonably nice area + pay for a car + pay for a crash pad in the LEJ area.

Perhaps the pay and schedules have improved by now, but all in all I was not terribly impressed, especially for Western Europe and flying brand new 777's. :yuk:

I think it was more the other way around, initially lot's of type rated guys joined from one of the big ME3, desperate to escape the desert at just about any price.

Hi,

did you already receive invitations for the assessment? When will it take place? I am still waiting for a reply.

Hi,

any news here?? Did the assessments already took place or will they be later this month?

I still have no information regarding my application. Does somebody have a contact number?

the last screenings in November will be held in a few days from now

they need people. many pilots are leaving and some already left.
in the 6-8 months expect like 10-12 sfo to leave and probably captains too.
destinations are mainly norwegian but cargolux, eurowings, transavia and others are also options taken into account.
in this period young second officers came in, no expansion, no career progression, no happiness in the flight deck.
even thow here the money is ok and you have a lot of spare time, doing always the same things, hearing always the same stories, having to divide the cockpit with cpts that had the opportunity to upgrade when the company was expanding (and they are not better than you....) and you are stuck on the right because they block progression is really depressive.
if you want to try something different go for it, but there is no passion to fly. automation policy doesn't allow you to fly at all, but even if you want to fly, there is nothing special of hand flying a 30 nm stabilized ils approach. but that's mainly long haul.
as a first job i would rather choose a 737 place where to learn how to fly.
as a transition to large jet is ok, but then you have to move somewhere else either for upgrading or to go back flying and handle the plane, we all are pilots, are we?
training is ok, strange guys as everywhere. rostering is good, management too imho.
don't be surprised seeing always the same people going to LAX via SEA or going to ORD.
somebody is doing his own roster, others uses cpt and tre job as an hobby while having other activities, and that pisses off many, but you have to stick with it.
on the other hand planning personnel is really helpful.
it could be a choice to transition to a larger jet, it can be an option for somebody who doesn't care about career but just being at home and have a safe salary. you can't say is bad or good. it depends on what you want.

Hi,

thank you for the info dreimalsieben.

Are there any rumours if the requirments will be lowered for the FO or if there will be some external SO recruitment on top of the TFC classes?

Thanky for any additional info.

well there is one TFC class going on. As for now these guys will be employed as soon as they finish their training due to the fact that some of the trainees are descendants of/or somehow linked to some more "important" guys from the company.

as already mentioned, there will be some more guys leaving the company and the HR department ist struggling to find new experienced pilots.

:ok: for the nick, Louis XIV

The package is awsome, myid, teil zeit, a lot comes with your contract.
But you will be stuck on your right seat forever flying with somebody on the left that absolutelt didn't deserve it. Again, just friends, right place at the right moment and so on. Lucky guys but not every if them is ok to seat there imho. Norwegian will become a subsidiary of Box..

update: urgent need of FO.
a lot of very good guys left. that's really sad.
other good are going very very soon.
The "bads" are staying because they can't pass screenings. and they like to talk a lot (bulls°°t) because on a 10 hours flight they don't keep themselves busy with situational awareness, weather, etc.. but only opening and closing the mouth saying no sense sentences; apparently they think they appear bright to others.
Second officers building hours and then will leave to get landings and career. Makes no sense for them staying for 10 years with 100 landings having seen nothing in the real world. Understandable.
So, FO with 5-6K on the short haul that's the opportunity to step on a big mama. close your ears and join a really good company. but the career side will be the dark side of the moon.
3-4 years, 3000hrs on the beast and take off. Or if you live in LEJ then is winning at the LOTTO.

Hiring??
 

Ok, I hear guys are leaving, but I don't see vacancies advertised on the webpage! To me that job sounds tempting, short trips, maid, Teilzeit, work live balance seems good, also maybe not the money

Yeah, its like winning the lottery, thats why people are leaving:ugh:

The package is :mad: with no career, thats why people are leaving.
Does Joe pay you a dinner for your post?

The lowest paid 777 pilots on this planet. Maybe that's a pro?

@EAM :

Joe doesn't pay me nothing, i am on a 85ish scale including sfo allowance and it gives me about 6k net a month which is not bad for an FO (what do you think EDDT..? i am not paid more than an average cpt at Germania? Sunexpress 737? and so on..?)
but i am leaving anyhow because of the career.
And..what can you earn in terms of experience doing 10 hours straight ahead ?
The Second officers what they understand about flying? nothing. Landings, take offs, approaches, considerations...
But....if you want a lot of free time and problem less flying and operations then that's the magic company.
I am not complaining and i am not doing publicity. i said the truth.
Eurowings is taking many of us, Azur is interesting, norwegian is a cool place, Transavia could be nice, Condor too.
It depends what you want, i just made a picture of what it aerologic now.
and about payscale don't complain my friend. even 4K net is good for an FO.
low experience pilots needs to go somewhere else. Even consider EK or KAL. Go if you are unhappy but don't spit on what is not bad at all. I will leave but i can't say it was :mad: as you are saying.

Yes, but you don't make 4k net, thats the point. Unless you have an experience where you would be CPT in other companies.
Its just funny, you say its a great place to be, but you are leaving yourself?

Well just put it that way.
For young FOs who like a big plane and don't care about money, its great.
For experienced FOs who like big planes and don't care about careers, its great.
For CPTs who come from AUA and get top level salary, its great.

well about the situation at Aerologic:

After pausing in 2015, management again asked for a survey upon its pilots. As expected, the results turned out to be again catastrophic for the company representing the current situation within Aerologic.
The mood has been at an all-time low for the last 3 consecutive years! Pilots, especially experienced First Officers, leaving the company due to the complete lack of career progression. Captain positions have either been filled by hiring captains from Austrian Airlines (with their salary at the top end of remuneration scale) or promoting experienced First Officers who joined in from Austrian Airlines as well. Seniority for upgrades (both for Captains as well as for Senior First Officers) is not taken into account at all and decision on who will be promoted just depends on the arbitrariness of the head of flight operations.
Rumours say that within the next 3 months (JAN-MAR) around 15 First Officers and 1-2 Captains will leave, most of them (like almost all the others who left before) will join Norwegian (as Aerologic pilots are warmly welcomed there). This combined number totals approx. 8% of the pilots employed with Aerologic who will resign within the next 3 months - not taking into account many others who will follow soon.

Screenings for First Officers are withheld at the moment and company does not accept online applications via their homepage. With beginning of November many external pilots from Austrian Airlines will accomplish their type-rating with Aerologic so training capacities for the next months are already depleted.
Some guys believe that those external pilots will receive a job offer from Aerologic management after completing their training to compensate for those who are leaving soon.

i am on the take off runway now, an together with me other 5. 2 cpt received their contract too. other 5 passed their screening but i don't have their names so i don't know them. norwegian seems a really good place where to work, i met former box pilots and they are all very happy. roster, commuting and money.anyway i will never spit on box, they gave me food standards and nice bunch of people. not everybody but most. again it's just a matter of what you want to do in your life. relatively young you can't be stuck on the same plane on the same route with the same people for ever. but it's a personal decision. good luck to everybody, who wants to come to box and who wants to leave box. happy landings.

Probably a stupid question but is Norwegian 10 hours straight ahead also?
Come back in three years once the novelty has worn off maybe?

natuerlich is like this @mrangryfrompurley !
but you can't eat wienerschnitzel every day. you have to eat something different.
and after three years probably also the pizza is boring.
what makes the food different are mainly the destinations and in second instance the crew in this case. so the topping of the pizza is always different. at least it tastes differently.
the company where a pilot stays all life could be one like lufthansa where you have started on the 737 you go on the 74 you become a sfo you go back on a 320 as cpt and you will end up on a 330-40 or 80 as cpt. now even there they have a bit of problems, but on the major, changing planes every 5-7 years, changing role and so on, makes the probability to leave very remote.
if you are stuck on a plane on your role on the same destination on a small company where you are not valued, where there is a one man show (and you don't like it) and where all the flts over the pacific are flown by only one cpt (we are not good enough?), flts to lax always same name,...and i leave comments over single engine flts (..) or upgrade thanx to tooth decay (..) at less than half of the hrs required now..anyway it's only a personal opinion and this is not changing my mind over the solidity of the company, is just a picture of it. If you don't care about all that you will have a really good time.

Aerologic assessment
 

Hey guys,

I was wondering about the Aerologic assessment. I am considering to apply. Don't really need to leave wehre I am now but always keeping my eyes open. It has been quite a while since I graduated flightschool and had my last assessment. So naturally I am a little off the assessment bandwagon. What is being asked in the assessment and what kind of tests do the run? Please don't tell me to check older/other posts - because I am only interested in most up to date info available and not the stuff from 2013/14...

Aerologic Assessment
 

Hi Guys,

I have an Aerologic Assessment planned in September 2017.

My German is up to acceptable fluent conversational level.

Is there anybody who can help me answer this:

- Assessment: is the assessment completely done in German (computer based psychometric as well, or only the interview?)
- Are there any non-German native speakers?
- Any extra info about the assessment?
- I have roughly 4K hours, just a little under, with about 3700 of them on 737, any idea what my pay scale would be?