ALM -- I like it!!

It appears that the disadvantage that pilots in English speaking countries might have had when language wouldn't have been a useful tool to filter out 'foreign' pilots might just be coming to an end somewhere at the end of this year...?

In all fairness, I think it’s a good system to require German for a German company, French for a French company and Dutch got a Dutch company. It’s not discriminating, it’s culture.

if you apply for a “normal” job on the ground, they check if you fit within the company culture and atmosphere, and I believe airlines have the right to do the exact same.

At this moment in time it might not seem “fair” to others that language is the only thing in the way of getting a certain job, but I guess airlines aren’t waiting to assess 20k applications. It’s a divider which makes their work easier as well.

It being common doesn't make it right.

There are many (well-paying) jobs which don't require nor use nor knowledge of the local language. But a pilot, who is abroad for a large majority of their working time, should be fluent in it by your logic. It's discriminating, whether you admit it or not.

I don’t believe discriminating is the correct word for it. Otherwise you can see every requirement as discriminating (e.g. I have my PhD in Law but can’t be a First Officer at AeroLogic). If you want to be a pilot, learn to fly. Want to speak German, learn.

Language discrimination would take place if they say “you can’t join because you speak with an accent”.

Yes it is.

As in: discriminate
/dɪˈskrɪmɪneɪt/

verb

1.
recognize a distinction; differentiate.
"babies can discriminate between different facial expressions"

2.
make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age.
"existing employment policies discriminate against women"

Language skill-set clearly falls into the "differentiated / distinguish" scope as opposed to the second "be biased / show prejudice".

Unless a very large chunks of the airline itself are based on English language, it might even be borderline illegal to employ a non-native speaking foreigner. Think Security compliance for instance.

Most airlines have manuals in English, checklists in English, cockpit placards in English, callouts in English, R/T is in English, yet... you need to be native in [insert language of choice].

I am very interested in how you can't be compliant with security procedures unless you speak a non-English language.

For exactly those reasons, it's not the airside of the company that needs consideration. See a broader picture. To answer your concrete question e.g. how do you pass a government security test which is only conducted in the local language by the police.

Not saying it cannot be done if there is will and push comes to shove, only pointing out the hassle of climbing over, below and around some hurdles may many times outweigh the (financial) benefit of accessing a larger pool of qualified candidates.

A sensible union will subtly oppose hiring non-nationals as any shortage raises the salary bar. Would the company be happy to pay for all the additional necessary expert lawyers and accountants to tackle the loops of intra/extra EU social security and taxes? Re-do all the legacy internal software an employee needs to be acquainted with? Translate all the internal SMS documents and forms into English so that QA is there, ESET presentations and so on...

Having said that, my original company (EU, state owned then) learned to employ non-native but English speaking foreigners during the 2004-2007 upturn. Before covid I indeed did work twice as a third-languange English attempter in a non-English country.

Becoming a dual-language company is a huge task. Your milage may vary.

Surely any sensible authority would enable tests to be done in aviation's universal language, English?

Schrodinger's union? Pilots want to work as little as possible, but block the company from hiring more people, so they have to work more themselves?

This is what happens in the real world on a daily basis, yet it's not exactly rocket science.
​​​​

Only if there is no other choice and the financial ends meet. Beyond that, we need to agree on the obvious.

Austrian Airlines require pilots to have a good standard of written and spoken German and English. Their ground staff have the same requirements.
Are you saying Aerologic is discriminating and Austrian Airlines isn't?

Comparing a 60 year old company to a 13 year old company isn’t completely fair. Every airline, I assume, started off with language requirements and eased them out along time. I still maintain its not discrimination. My mentality is “you want it, you gotta work for it”

Discrimination it may be but it's legal discrimination. Plenty of it going on all around us.

just to be clear, I am not claiming nor complaining that it is discrimination. Just merely stating that comparing 2 different kind of companies isn’t fair.

I was confused by your earlier response. We're you saying that older companies usually drop these sorts of requirements and newer companies usually enforce them?

Makes sense for a German company.
I would expect no less.

At present with the number of AOG pilots, they can set what filters they like and they will still have enough applicants by far.

Completely agree. Not sure why one company is being singled out for criticism when most European operators would impose similar language requirements, and perfectly reasonably in my opinion.

There is a whiff of linguistic chauvinism shown by a minority of pilots, and most of these are probably monolingual...

Climb150

What my opinion on the matter is, is that a companies as AF, KLM, AUA have got their requirements set up over longer periods. A company as AeroLogic which was set up in 2007 has had its requirements set. Who knows those requirements might change over a longer period of time. Hence saying that on the basis of requirements, its not fair to compare companies.

I myself am not monolingual for that matter (Tri-lingual believe it or not).

Aerologic
 

Good day,

thinking about applying for a first officer position at Aerologic. Right now I am
flying for a leisure airline with an unclear perspective. Of course I won’t make as much money there. But in order for some consistency it would be fine for me. Looking for some advices or experiences how it is to work for this company. Thanks !!

Aerologic Screening
 

Good day,

i am having a screening coming up. Any information to that available? Thanks!

It seems to be a 2 day process - and although otherwise stated - they expect you to be prepared.

1. day)
- Some kind of ATPL, english, multitasking and coordination tests (PC)
- Group scenarios

If successful

2. day)
- Simulator session on random aircraft simulators available @ that time
- personal interview

Close colleague went through that process and his recommendations were:

- use your time!!! -train yourself with some kind of general software / books in: general Aviation / ATPL knowledge + SIM (f.e. your old OM-S, SOPs, SkyTest ! , MS FlightSim, X-Plane, Aviation Interview Books)
- train your math + physics skills: mental arithmetics, basic physics - seek some kind of books / software that helps you with that.
- don't defend or discuss your "old" SOP's with the guys @ EAT - adapt their SOP's asap
- know the history of AeroLogic + the basics of the B777 in comparison to your old aircraft
- the usual stuff. "Why do you want to work for us? / What makes you the right choice? / What is it that should convince us to employ you? / are you prepared to live / work in LEJ? / What will your family say if you are away for 10 + days in HKK ?, Why did you - or didn't you have a PTU or a LTU unit in your A/C before, what were challenging situations in your career, etc..."
- use what is available on the Inet (Software + Books) . Others will do so too. The investment is worth it - for AeroLogic or any other company you might join.

Good Luck !

Hi Iggi,

Is this feedback from a recent assessment?
I'm due to go the assessment in just a few weeks and looking at Aerologic's invitation, the assessment is expected to be the following:
Day 1: Psychometric tests, Group scenarios
Day 2: Sim and Interview

Not that it terribly changes anything but wondering if they are just flexible on the assessment outline?
I suppose that due to COVID they skipped the "famous" Dinner Interview ?

Thanks for the feedback and I hope your colleague had a positive outcome :D

Valuable info Iggi.
Is the whole assessment in german?

Hi Folks above,

I did my assessment in October last year, unfortunately failed the simulator, but they were happy enough to give me another go in 2021.

However, my tips are as follows....

Day 1 is as I experienced it was an intense day, very long. You come in at the Hotel and you wait to enter the big room where you will do an x amount of test, i believe it was in the area of 15 different test. Ranging from English, German, knowledge questions, ATPL questions, maths, physics, psychometric testing, psychological questions and some reaction tests. In all fairness, you have some things you can prepare, but also a lot that should be or could be common knowledge. The book I used to prepare was ‚Testtraining 2000+‘ from Hesse Schrader. Take a few days/week if you want to prepare for it. You can do the tests in your own pace... At the beginning of the testing, you can decide if you want to do the tests in English or German. Dont be fooled, not all the tests will be in English and the psychological testing will be in German.

After all the testing, you’ll be dealt in to random groups and perform a group exercise. Result is not important, showing that you can work together is. I am not a native German speaker so I needed to listen intently so i could follow precisely what was happening. I felt slightly uncomfortable as i could not be my 100% self and throw my opinion in, but AeroLogic complimented me on it. So what you think is correct, is not always correct in their eyes.

Afterwards you all can choose to meet up for dinner on AeroLogics costs and you’ll hear between 8pm and 9pm if you did or did not pass to the next round.

at the beginning of the day the simulator slots for the next day are already planned, so you’ll have an estimate on what you’ll be in the sim if you pass. Just remember, dont pas is no sim.

Day 2:

First you do the sim. This is where I dropped out. However, please do take my advice for it as i did not follow the tips and payed the price. There is a simulator center near the hotel from Lufthansa. At this sim center there is a man who does AeroLogic prep sessions, he will walk you through the sim session which “easy”. However, if you are rated, they are really strickt. Get as much raw data sim prep as you can!
All is raw data. You are on the runway in Leipzig and will do the Before Take Off Checks...
- Take Off 3000’ and make a turn.
- Pass transition altitude (set standard)
- Level Off
- Climbing turn/descending turn 20 AoB and 1000ft per minute.
- Descend 3000’
- Vectors Raw Data NDB approach
- GoAround... one engine out.
- Memory Items? No memory items.
- Shut engine down
- Vectors Raw Data Single Engine ILS Approach

You’ll get the result 2-3 minutes later.

If you failed you’ll have an exit interview. They’ll inform you of your scores of the following day, and if they were happy with that then you’ll be invited to come back within 12 months. If you did not fit their profile, then they’ll thank you for your interest in AeroLogic.

If you passed, you’ll have an interview where they want to get to know you. Why cargo? Why AeroLogic? What drives you? Hobbies? So on so on....

Then a few days/weeks later you will get a phone call or email informing you of the result.

Good Luck to you all and stay safe!

Hit AtlasPilot,
1.) You are right - my bad! The order of events is now corrected in my post above. It is indeed as you posted.
2.) It was a positive assessment from roughly 08/2020 - Start date of CBT and TR was 11/2020.
3.) Not sure about the dinner. might have been a "COVID" related skip on that part.

Good Luck to you & use the Hesse Schrader Testtraining and Skytest Books/Sotware. It seems to help a lot for the first part.

Hi MrGustave,

Can't make a 100% statement concerning the language, but I think it depends on your native language.
If german = most parts will be done in german. But there will be english questions - especially during the interview part.

Things I recall were in the line of:
"Explain part xyz from your Aircraft - What is it used for / How does it work?"; "Explain a pandemic/Covid to your collague!"; "Would you be here if it wasn't for a global crisis in pax aviation?"

Good luck to you too

What Simulator did you end up in? A tripple or some B737?

Sim screening is always done in a 737.

Hey,

anybody recently had an invitation on know what the trend is like at the moment?

Had the phone call to check german level a few weeks ago but no news since.

MostAnnoying Very nice summary! Could u please highlight which of the theoretical tests were only available in German?

Hi,

as far as I remember it were the psychological questions and some of the practical tests, but when in doubt about a question, you are free to ask the assessors if they can help you. Not too much, but I think it shows them as well you want to work accurately.

For others, I have gotten an invitation for another assessment in the second week of August.

Hi, did you completly re-apply via their website or did you just write them an easy email?

All the best in August!

i reapplied in March… contacted them beforehand to see what they needed from me. Anyone who reapplies has to do the assessment completely nonetheless

Whats your battle plan for the second try? just more and intense preparation or some different books/programs?

well, for me I passed the first round last year so doing the same. Studying the Hesse/Schrader (Test2000) and some online ATPL questions.

for the sim however, going to book a sim slot somewhere

I just red that you passed first round the moment i posted my reply...
What exact online questionaire did you use for atpl?

For the sim prep i did mine with C4U last year, they have acces to the same sim where the screening will be held.
Altough i didn't make it to the sim last time.

I used FastTrack ATPL. It’s 500+ questions which will give you 50-60% of the questions on the exam. I believe that of all the tests, this one is the most unpredictable.

The sim prep you did, is that considered “the official” prep thing which most folks do?

Great, thanks for the info. I honestly was not very fond of this "testraining 2000" but hey whatever does the job.

Good question. i dont know if there is an "official" one? I booked a session on the fixed based with said company just to get comfortable with the profile. they offer FFS as well of course.
I did a screening prep for a different company with them a few years back and it was spot on the same as the screening. There is AET as well but i have no info about them.

well, I got a spreadsheet to keep track of what to learn. Maintaining that, helped me a lot! Did not have too many doubts on the testing and it payed off.

thanks for the tip of sim!

Anyone who can share the rostering patterns? With 15 days off is it 5 ON/5 OFF?