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Originally Posted by HardLanding1
(Post 10451074)
Thanks for getting back to me, I'm sorry for being completely clueless, but is aspirational just like attaching it to a bid? the same way you would indicate what fleet/rank you would like to be?
As for right of request, I thought it was now a statutory right to request part time under flexi-working rules, although the company has a million and one easy ways to reject it as per the usual UK employment laws... Do BA have a different (improved?) system to this? My main reason for asking is I'm going to be commuting from mainland Europe (not to tax dodge as seems to be the main motivation according to this thread!), and ideally I'd like to get onto something like a 75% contract as soon as possible to ease some of the burden of commuting off. Is this something I could expect within say the first 5 years, or something that will have to wait until further in my career? And do factors like having newly born children effect the likelihood of getting accepted? Thanks in advance everyone and hope to see you on the line soon! Right to Request is exactly as it says on the tin, you have the right to request part time working (for whatever reason you like nowadays, having children is not a prerequisite). The company cannot simply refuse/reject it, you’ll be put on a waiting list and eventually it’ll be granted. How long is anyone’s guess, it seems to be roughly a year at the moment but I know some who’ve had it granted more quickly than that (also longer too). Aspirational part time is a different pattern of working and part of the annual Priam bid whereas right to request can be done at any time of year by going through the official application channels with HR. Theres plenty of pilots who’ve had RTR granted within the first five years (some within the first two years!) as there’s no minimum time stipulation. |
Recruitment is in a death spiral at the moment, because not only are their usual supply lines running dry, there are increasing numbers of pilots in their first year just upping sticks and leaving. Recruitment are either being really clever and resourcing the line to be fighting fit for a downturn OR really stupid and racing towards a mass cancellation Summer (similar to Ryanair in 2018?) It’s not pretty at the moment. Bidding via JSS has gone to ratsh*t on some fleets due to not enough pilots. Not one pilot got awarded part time this year. It’s going to be a very uncomfortable Summer. But…Totally predictable too. Yet ‘Finance’ insisted on keeping their boot on the throat of all other departments. And the guy who created this mess. The guy who said ‘NO’ on repeated loop for the last 4 years? They promoted him to IAG CFO! |
Not one pilot got awarded part time this year. |
Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123
(Post 10451948)
No way!!! What is the bond at BA? The only part-time contracts that have been awarded this year are for compassionate reasons under the RTR scheme. No aspirational contracts have been awarded, and none that have applied for increased PT either (72% moving to 58%). BA is massively under-resourced at the moment, in practically every department. A toxic management environment keeps everybody just about working through threats of disciplinary procedures if one dares to be too sick in any annual period. if you’re enjoying short haul somewhere else, my advice would be to stay where you are. It is only the attraction, for some, of long haul that continues to lure people to our airline of faded glory. As long as you can put up with never having a weekend off for the next few years, working to EASA limits, and a company that will try to give you a self funded pay cut year after year then come on in, the waters lovely!:rolleyes: Plenty of recent joiners are finding that where they’ve come from is actually a better gig than BA and head back - EZ, RYR, VS et al - even some from the sand pit have returned! |
Recruitment is going flat out at the moment, the problem is too little too late. Unfortunately those previously in charge of pilot resources ran down pilot numbers to save money and it's coming back to bite now. I'm sure when the next recession hits they'll be biting the hands off those that want to go part time.....
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Anyone know how often they recruit experienced crew or when they're likely to re-open recruitment? Not BACF, mainline.
Cheers! |
Is it possible to have rough timeframes for being able to achieve a couple of weekends off each month, for each seat in each fleet? I know it’s a big ask and not very representative without knowing how much future recruitment there would be, but it would be useful to guesstimate the sort of choices you’d have to make for your lifestyle. I look at a fixed pattern roster and see how many weekends there are off, and then think how tempting BA is that with time served, you can bid to not work any... until your next move! I can’t work out which is preferable; having some off, but having that pattern forever, or the snakes & ladders situation of a seniority list with fleet/seat moves. I was pretty staggered to read on here, and hear from friends how rare a weekend off is in the early days. Obvious when you think about it, but still. A close friend who joined at the start of the latest recruitment wave gets nearly every weekend off on SH. But if he wants to upgrade, or go LH... |
Weekend working and the whole rostering/bidding system is a very controversial issue at the moment. Whilst you may get best guesses from some on whereabouts on a seniority list you need to be to get a chance of getting a certain number of weekends off e.g. - "A3XX, 25% from the top, get every other W/E off" I'm not sure anyone can give you a definitive timescales in terms of “X months" or “Y years" simply because your rate of movement up a list depends on all sorts of unknowns. Just for the sake of overview I'll offer that there are lots of grumbles from the Junior and not so junior on both Longhaul and Shorthaul that getting weekends off under JSS is difficult, and guaranteeing specific weekends free is problematic for almost everybody, regardless of seniority, unless they resort to using Golden days ( 6 per year) qnd/or leave or Duty Free Weeks. |
Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it and understand the difficulties. I don’t have an offer or anything, but wanted to be as informed as possible should one come my way in the future. |
Your seniority will increase more rapidly on short haul (having said that I’ve been in nearly 3 and a half years now and still haven’t quite cracked the top 50% on the Airbus (LHR) despite the 700+ pilot feast of recruitment behind). Stated before here but 50% is the rough watershed moment on any status list. You may well get the odd weekend below that figure but they’ll be rare. Otherwise if you’re bottom 50% on any list expect to work every weekend. On Long Haul fleets where it’s going to take you at least 10 years to crack the top 50% that means you’ll be working every weekend outside of leave for over ten years. If you have a young family at home that’s going to be a major stressor. IMHO it’s an untenable situation. When one of the former Balpa P&P reps has already conceded privately that seniority is ripe for legal challenge it’s surely only a matter of time? (BTW I stress I’m not advocating that course of action but it would not surprise me one little bit the way things are going). |
Originally Posted by Gingerbread Man
(Post 10462098)
Thanks for the reply. You're welcome, not sure how much use the advice really was but as Rex B has said rostering under JSS seems to be a major stressor for many at the moment, most especially for many at the bottom. |
Whats the situation with the BA BALPA pilots that hit the news with the racism email stuff?
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Originally Posted by RexBanner
(Post 10462148)
Stated before here but 50% is the rough watershed moment on any status list. You may well get the odd weekend below that figure but they’ll be rare. Otherwise if you’re bottom 50% on any list expect to work every weekend. On Long Haul fleets where it’s going to take you at least 10 years to crack the top 50% that means you’ll be working every weekend outside of leave for over ten years. That said, the bottom of some fleets (certainly 777/320) looks pretty unpleasant. What remains to be seen is what, if any, effect the tripling of weekend points has on the availability of weekends off. Personally, I will definitely try to work at least a couple of weekends a month because I absolutely don't want to do more reserve. |
The tripping of weekend points will have little effect in my opinion. What is needed is for weekend points to actually count towards weekends off. That looks like it’s in the pipeline. I am no fan of the seniority based rostering but with some mechanisms built in to stop the abuse of the system it is probably one I would keep. It is not right that junior guys are working 3-4 days a month more to achieve the same credit. Weekends are over rated. I am off today and it’s a nightmare, every man and his dog is out. Occasionally it’s nice to get the day off that you need though. Back to work for the rest of the weekend though |
Originally Posted by bex88
(Post 10462883)
The tripping of weekend points will have little effect in my opinion. What is needed is for weekend points to actually count towards weekends off. That looks like it’s in the pipeline. I am no fan of the seniority based rostering but with some mechanisms built in to stop the abuse of the system it is probably one I would keep. It is not right that junior guys are working 3-4 days a month more to achieve the same credit. Weekends are over rated. I am off today and it’s a nightmare, every man and his dog is out. Occasionally it’s nice to get the day off that you need though. Back to work for the rest of the weekend though If so, not having weekends off can be very damaging in the long run |
i personally think seniority works for some things, but not others. For instance, I think the points system we utilise for leave works very fairly. If you bid for unpopular leave periods you build up enough points such that you can bid for popular leave periods and expect to get them.
Similarly, I think seniority coupled with the freeze periods after a successful move, works well with PRIAM bidding for fleet and status. I am not sure how well seniority works for bidding for monthly work though. A bidding system should exist, whereby pilots get some say over when they want to work and the kind of work they’d prefer, but the level of difference that being senior or junior makes is currently ridiculous with JSS. Bidline at least created lines of work in a generally fair work distribution, and you had to pick one that had what you wanted, but more often than not had something you weren’t so keen on in order to get it. That meant the senior pilot could be happy they got the line they wanted, whilst the junior guy wasn’t being well and truly shafted. Now it is very much the case that the senior pilots pick just what they want and the junior guys end up getting shafted. Generally people want to work as little as possible, so the senior guys achieve that, whilst the junior guys have as many trips as possible squeezed onto their lines. Then they get global constraints and crew repair to mess with their bid so that they can have even more work squeezed in. Couple that with the fact the junior guys are paid less, and it really isn’t a fair system at all. A points system for working weekends needs to be points for avoiding working weekends, not for avoiding reserve. The amount of reserve the junior guys have to do is already way more than what the senior guys have to do. It won’t deter the senior guys from avoiding weekend work. Similarly with trips, there should be a requirement for the system to get everyone as close as possible to the average credit per trip over the year. Junior long haul pilots doing 50% more reports than senior pilots is wrong. |
Probably a very ignorant question but how hard can it be to put to vote the following concept?
Seniority rules for only 50% worth of weekend work. The other 50% is random. |
Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator
(Post 10462927)
Probably a very ignorant question but how hard can it be to put to vote the following concept?
Seniority rules for only 50% worth of weekend work. The other 50% is random. |
I don’t think anyone wants everything now, and you’re wrong, being junior under JSS is not the same as being junior under bidline back when you or I were junior. Not even close. |
Originally Posted by 3Greens
(Post 10462947)
Because some some of us worked every weekend when we were junior too. It’s not a JSS problem, it was the same with bidline too. That said I'm not of the opiion it is fair to inflict perpetual weekend working on the junior, I really am not.. As for the new weekend points system...I think it was set up to make it appear at least something was being done by offering some sort of incentive.... but the link to Reserve Vulnerability rather than weekend work vulnerability was done because (IMHO) the company will be very reluctant to add another clashing/blocking tool by allowing points to be swapped for weekends off.. Given how much BA hates people being able to clash/block work ( part of the reason Bidline went)I was pleasantly surprised that BALPA managed to negotiate the Golden Days.... |
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