I've only glanced over the last page and a half so this may have been said, but to the chaps talking about potential 2 years flexicrew prior to employment, it's my understanding (right or wrong) that that is purely for cadets I.e. 200hrs through CTC or Parc, 2 years contracting for CTC / Parc then assessment for a 75%/100%/5354 permanent position with EZY. For experienced DEFO, I believe it's straight into the RHS on the 75%/100%/5354 contract with EZY on the basis that they're experienced and EZY can easily manage their cost base and crewing levels with the use of 75 and 100% FRV.

AdM
 

You say: "I would have to say that the airline industry is not the same as other FTSE 100 companies and that effectively every 6 months you have a 'title defence' in the simulator anyway."

It doesn't matter a jot that the airline industry isn't the same as other industries.

What SHOULD count is that the company realise they are in the BIG leagues of business now and that they should not plead poverty all the time!!!

A 6 month probationary period would be more than ample to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Other businesses face cost and margin pressures. They don't always use the staff to bolster their profits. Some businesses are even clever enough to improve their product (easyJet haven't changed hugely in my opinion) and some even get away with increasing margins by charging the clients more.

Heaven forbid....

Narrow Runway - I tend to agree that 2 years is too long, but given that the 6 months proposed is only one sim check I would probably go for 12 months. I think we are all agreed that permanent contracts with easyJet, as opposed to CTC/Parc, are what people want. I am not yet convinced that is what is being offered, but in all honesty no one really knows yet. We shall see

As has been said before; best bet is just to apply anyway, jump through the hoops and see what they offer. To be honest, it was a rubbish application that could be filled in by anyone with a casual interest in 10 minutes flat. If the package is hopeless, just refuse it. Companies hate it when a job offer is made and the candidate tells them, "no." Sure, they can move on and recruit a warm body from the "will fly for food brigade" but experience has taught me this can turn up all sorts of oddball types that will cause mayhem.

EasyJet, has established itself as a dodgy recruiter in recent years with the whole Flexicrew nonsense and I would not trust them one little bit. They are likely to bait you with one deal and then switch to another over the two year probation period. Also, with a self sponsored type rating, EasyJet, can be certain that most of their new recruits are looking for out from day one. For now though, play along and see what happens.

I have a feeling that they are likely to be smug when they see thousands of applications and that will mean the deal will be awful. I also suspect that most of the applicants are not going to be starry eyed kids, ready to write out a big cheque for a dock labour style job on rubbish pay. This has got fiasco written all over it.

Apparently there were over 1000 applications within the first 24 hours.

On the other hand if you paid for a type rating you could leave any time you wanted. If you didn't and were bonded you couldn't.

Non type rated easyjet recruitment?
 

Everyone I know who has applied, ticked they would be willing to self sponsor their 320 TR, but I don't think any of them have any serious intention (or the ability) to do that at this stage. I'm sure EZY are aware this would be the case.

Non type rated easyjet recruitment?
 

The problem is this will only become apparent far down in the selection process, probably at the point of job offers.

Joe Le Taxi:

It's not just about failing a sim that will see you lose a job.

Remember September 11th 2001?

There were a lot of experienced pilots fired immediately. Some very experienced pilots who had moved to big airlines were got rid of - and quite a number of these were inside their probationary period.

1 months pay. Gone immediately.

Be careful what we start wishing for here. Extended probationary periods leave employers with disproportionately large amounts of power.

Wonder what percentage were Military Types?

With past history in mind, what we be in place to stop easyJet from changing their minds as to what they would offer you at the end of 2 years? Since there would be no permanent contract from the outset, what would stop them from offering a NEC Part 2 contract, 25-40% down on current T&Cs? 50% down? Who knows?

It's too big a gamble, and no experienced pilot in a permanent job will hang their ass out in the breeze for 2 years, hoping that what was verbally discussed 2 years before will still apply. And paying for a TR, to put yourself in that position? Not a chance.

That said, it was free to express an interest, and I suspect lots & lots of experienced pilots will express an interest despite all of the above, things can change after all. Just don't expect them to say anything other than "no" if they are offered 2 year contract with a vague promise for the future, plus self sponsor TR. The quality experienced applicants will suddenly vanish if HR try and be too clever and think they know more than they do.

Orange arrogance
 

Alexander de Meerkat said further up: "I can tell you that easyJet are literally being swamped by applications already from pilots willing to do anything to come and work for us"

Willing to do anything to come and work for us? Not a chance. I'm willing to spend five minutes filling in your diddy application form. It's a bit arrogant to assume that all the applicants are desperate to bend over for the big orange dildo.

Experience has taught me that people posting "informed" insider info on here are usually a bit light on facts, and that companies will change the entrance conditions at the drop of a hat (i.e. Jet2 self sponsorship becoming a bond arrangement).

Agree with the above, I filled in the app to see whats on offer. If the conditions are near to be whats been discussed here then I will not be moderately interested.

This has been advertised by easyJet themselves, rather than by Parc or CTC. So I would be very surprised if anything other than an easyJet contract will be given.

What contract this might be, we shall soon find out. I would say apply for the job and decide later when offers are being made.

Hey guys, good evening, does anyone know the cost of the Type Rating, and what other things they offer?

Start at page 1 Underdog! And all will be revealed...which is basically apply and find out...

Tubbs, presumably if you already have a better job than easyJet you would not have wasted a moment of your valuable time applying. It is not perfect, but other than a stable national carrier, of whom there are precious few, this is as good as it gets. The fact that we apparently received 1000 applications in the first 24 hours is a reasonable indicator that some people clearly hold the same view. If easyJet go on to offer a rubbish deal then it goes without saying people will turn them down. The bottom line is that no one will leave their current job for a worse one, but if you thought easyJet was worse you would not be applying. The truth is we do not yet know the deal on offer but it will hopefully be reasonable. Good luck to those who genuinely want to come here.

007 thanks for the reply. :ok:

There are many players on this forum who are only taking the 2 year view on this new contract. In whatever form it takes, subject to ability, those successful applicants will be looking, in possibly a little over 5yrs at the LHS of a shiny airbus, based wherever they want in Europe (or the UK), on a healthy 6 figure salary for a secure airline. Note: The Captains deal has never changed - this is only a discussion about whether the first few years is perfect or not.....

Try taking the 5yr+ view on Monarch, FlyBe and Virgin.......best of luck!!!:ugh:

(I know where I would feel more secure)

Five years to command? Really? Not convinced.....

"There are many players on this forum who are only taking the 2 year view"

I think that's because if the deal is a vague promise of a perm contract in 2 years - the vague promise is completely worthless in aviation. By all means be an optimist, but also look at easys track record with doing the the right thing by its pilots ( maybe ask some of the flexi crew guys who went bankrupt).

"Try taking the 5yr+ view on Monarch, FlyBe and Virgin"

Monarch is about to recruit 70 ish FOs on perm contracts from day 1. That's a full salary deal with pension and health care not a watered down B scale.

I am all for easy widening it's recruitment paths , but also look at what others are offering.

If you look at operators in the UK I reckon Jet2, Flybe, and Ryanair drivers would form the main interest in this gig, apart from experienced guys who are out of work of course.

Will an experienced permanent Flybe driver leave for anything less than a decent permanent contract? I doubt it.

Will a permanent Jet2 driver leave for anything less than a decent permanent contract? I doubt it.

Will an experienced contractor at Ryanair turn down a potential command upgrade course(in light of the 170 738s on their way) for anything less than a decent permanent contract? I doubt it.

It will be interesting to see what they actually put on the table.

I think a flybe driver with the constant threat of the axe hanging over his head permanently and especially the turboprop driver would very seriously consider this move. Even if is not a permanent contract for the first 2 years, simply because he/she would gain a decent type rating with plenty of hours on it and have much more options open to him/her in the short term.

Ladies & Gents

Has anyone who has applied not received a confirmation email? I applied and did not receive one yet when I check the status of my application it says it's been submitted and received. I tried editing my details and sending another application and it still says the same thing at the end, which is:

Thank You

We've received your application

Thank you for your application. We're reviewing it to see if it matches what we need for this role and we'll be in touch once we have an update for you.
We invite you to look at the job openings available in our Career section and to further explore the functionalities of your account.

After trying three different email addresses it still doesn't send me a confirmation email. I've spoken to several colleagues and they all say they have a confirmation.

Thanks.

Captainbirdseye.........."Monarch is about to recruit 70 ish FOs on perm contracts from day 1. That's a full salary deal with pension and health care not a watered down B scale"

Yep.....that's exactly what I mean.....take the longer term view!!!

No point having a permanent contract with scale A, pension, health care, gym membership etc from the start if it is unlikely to last.

I should re-phrase my earlier post...."there are many naive players (who have not been in an airline, with a mortgage and family to support when it has folded) on this forum who are taking the 2 year view...."

For me, it would be a secure job ANYTIME.

9 minutes:

Monarch have existed for 40+ years. Who are you to say they won't be here in another 2 years time?

As for a secure airline, yes, I agree that easyJet is secure.

However, there is a huge difference between the stability of the airline and the stability of a permanent job after 2 years.

Any number of things could happen in those 730 days that could affect the stability of your job offer.

I wouldn't be bandying around accusations of naivety if I were you. You could be accused of it yourself.

Speedrestriction.......yes. 5yrs+.

...Well that is the typical time to a command based on the last command course that started LAST WEEK - unless you have more up to date information (!)

Narrow runway - bmi had been around since 1938. They only had enough money for a couple of weeks of further trading when they were sold to IAG.

Do you want the list of all the other airlines that have been around for 40+yrs that are no longer around?

I can assure you that the past is no guarantee to the future......now that is not a naive statement.......is it? You would be better thinking about current business models rather than when an airline was established.

9 minutes:

You like the sound of your own prognostications don't you?

As I say, Monarch have been around 40+ years. Who are you to say they won't be in 2 years time?

I note what you say about failed airlines, but who is to say that easyJet won't become one? All it needs it an adverse incident and it could all change very rapidly.

Plenty of people, not just me, seem to question your statements on this forum, which all seem to be blustering personal opinion.

Personally, I think it is a big risk to accept a 2 year probation period - and anyhow, why should we be subjected to it? These applicants hold professional licences and will have all gained significant experience elsewhere before applying to easyJet.

You sound like a management wannabe, or at best management apologist who enjoys talking down other organisations because you are under the misguided illusion that somehow your lot is better than that of everyone else's.

I agree - easyJet is a good option, but don't over egg the pudding please.

Expansion isn't finished at EZY. It's just pausing for breath for a couple of years.

And although attrition is low, many FO's have just left/are about to leave for Monarch and last time BA were recruiting, they took scores if not hundreds of FOs not to mention a handful of captains. There is a small but steady trickle of FO's and some captains/training captains leaving for Emirates.

Command at Easyjet is far from being a dead man's shoes situation. I would say 5-10 years after becoming permanent, but closer to 5.

I agree that leaving a permanent position for a 2 year contract is undesirable and carries it's risk. But staying in a permanent contract with an airline can also be considered a risk, whether it be job security or career development. That can only be assessed by the interested party.

I don't foresee that easyJet will not take good experienced crew permanently at the end of the fixed contract period. The contract will probably be structured to become permanent after two years from the outset.

As for time to command, it changes on a yearly basis so impossible to say but on average easyJet does about 100 command upgrades a year. I'd say five years is a reasonable estimate right now.

It's far from great (paying for rating, contracting), and I'm just trying to help those interested with their thoughts, but the rewards are good. Alexander de Meerkat is right. On a permanent contract, easyJet is a very good place to be.

Narrowrunway - sorry, wrong on both counts.

I seem to have touched a nerve - sounds like you have had a bad experience with easy in the past or is your comment "unbiased"?

Totally agree with the last 2 comments...

I think a bit of coffee smelling is required around here. Sure Easyjet has a good business model (that doesn't necessarily mean it's particulaly well run though) and yes it's stable in terms of job security at the minute but you will work bloody hard for the cash- harder an in more imaginative ways that Flybe and alike could even dream of. They disrespect union agreements and pretty much make the rules up as they go a lot of the time (yes standard for an airline these days but unpalatable nonetheless)
The real issue is going into the new Brady style Easyjet with your eyes open. The only way you will ever see the existing command contract will be on a museum wall unless the existing employees gear up for a significant showdown this summer. there is classic good cop/ bad cop strategy in place at the minute where McCall plays the PR game eloquently and promises plenty while her sidekick is busy unravelling everything behind the scenes. By her own admission she would like to benchmark contracts with Wizzair.
Easyjet is no picnic but it may represent a good solution for some if you are willing to take the 2 year gamble.

Non type rated easyjet recruitment?
 

Well, to be eligible for the NEC you need need 2 years as flexicrew and 1251 easyJet hours.

Swissair, Sabena, American and Air France were once airlines with incredible job security and no chance of going under.

For the likes of ADM and 9 minutes to landing (who I agree with more often than not) to be so confident in easyJet's position with the benefit of such myopic hindsight demonstrates the investors adage, there are those who don't know and those who don't know they don't know.

The business model works very well and the commercial team are sharp. The brand is superlative.

As an employee of easyJet and someone who was given a chance by the company I hope it continues to grow and succeed.

9. Minutes

If being offered a DEC at easy, but turning it down counts, then yep, I've been there and done that.

Got a very nice job. But thanks for your concern!

Talk about T&Cs all you want, but I bet there are plenty of folks flying for Eastern, Loganair and other similar operators who are fed up of flying turboprops and seeing 200h blokes and blokesses get jobs on shiny jets.

I'll bet that, in the absence of other commitments (kids in school etc), this could represent the "big break" for quite a lot of those folks, and you could offer them a Victorian Chimney Sweep's Apprentice style T&Cs and they'd bite your hand off.

Wx man - agreed.

Opportunities to go from turboprop to jet are rare enough so a majority of the crew will have applied. - especially for a jet job to remain in the UK.

Can't see any of the line trainers or TRE's applying tho as pay cut and funding a type rating won't interest them one bit. But can see a healthy number of line captains and FO's going for this.

Only jet job opportunity at the moment that seems to be taking steady numbers away is at fly-Dubai and that's not an option for everyone with a family if your not willing to move out of the Country.