PPJN has all the upto date info, expect on average to fly between 60-80 hrs a month unless you have leave in that month of course !

I am just looking for a simple answer should you apply by the application forms on Monarchs website or not? If so why not?

Honda-Pilot, if you're unsure - do both!

It all seems a bit vague at the moment and the application forms on the website are pretty generic, not really flight deck orientated...

As has been said before, i'm sure more info will filter out in the weeks to come. You certainly won't be missing the boat by waiting a while I'm sure.

Are they ever going to pick the people out of the existing pool? Or is it another type rated/ctc only gig?

I would think it would be worth giving them a quick call if you are waiting in the pool.

I called them after having been in the pool for 6 months having heard nothing, they offered me a job later that day. I'm not saying that will happen now but perhaps worth a shot if you haven't.

Be pro-active, it will help.

Can anyone tell me the rough take-home pay for an Fo each month inc sector/per diems etc?? 3500?? Less, more??

For a A320/1 year 1 FO, £3500 is about right as a take home average give or take a couple of hundred depending on time of year. That's assuming no student loans, pension deductions or overtime (of which there is plenty at present)

T's & C's
 

Hi All,

Am doing some thinking about this Monarch business, but am in the fortunate position of having a job already, so it would be a sort of sideways move rather than just paying the bills, were it to happen.

Because (I'm assuming) MON soon pretty reputable, and you don't get too many folk complaining on here, I can't seem to find too much info on what life's like for FO's on the smaller airbuses. Can anyone shed any light on the lifestyle? For example, LGW based 320/321 scheduling & nightstops? Home most nights? 5/2 6/3 etc?

Thanks to anyone on the inside who can shed some light.

On the 320/321 very few night stops, only the odd charter (I have been here about 5 years and only had 5 and 3 of those were tech stops). Roster wise there is nothing as structured at 6 on 2 off 5 on 3 off or anything like that, u get what u get which is all rostered within the scheduling agreement and usually have your roster about 6 weeks ahead, you can register up to 4 VIP (confirmed days off) in any month and you can ring fence duties so they can't change you from the early to the late etc.

Over the last couple of years only about 15-20 have left (thats my best guess not official).

There are New bases this year, and a fair amount of expansion planned.

The family are still interested company seems to be doing well, and is a key part of the group. MAEL, Cosmos, 1st aviation, Avro etc would all suffer if the airline dissapeared.

I fully understand someone who does not have a job, but has a type-rating, going to Monarch. I even understand if you are working for an Eastern European outfit or similar and feel the need to return to the UK - Monarch fits the bill. What is very intriguing, however, is the fact that a significant number of easyJet FOs are applying, which seems to be a backward step. Many of them feel the difficulty of not having permanent contracts yet, and I can only express my sympathies for them and my frustrations with easyJet management for creating a situation where they felt they had to leave. It is, nonetheless, an incredibly unwise move on just about every level. You will wait forever to get a command in a Company where the future, at its most generous, is not overly bright and fly old banger aircraft that are all different. If you are a young person with 18 months at easyJet, by all means leave to join British Airways, Cathay or even Emirates - but Monarch or Virgin? This is not sensible.

Alexander

You forgot to add the statement "in my opinion" and to acknowledge the fact that you aren't in fact capable of predicting the future.

Makes you sound a little arrogant.

Old banger aircraft?
 

Mon have a significant fleet of FBW Airbus aircraft and probably expanding with more to come. The 757 and A300s will proabably be phased out too.

Good company and not many pilots complain about working there.

I think your post is quite flippant and I completely disagree. I think a move to MON from any low cost is a step up.

Hardly wishing to take sides I would hazard the guess that AdM was referring to the comparative age of the aircraft the fleet. Some of their aircraft, although they are 320/321s, have been around a while and been sourced from different places which means their configuration may vary slightly - unless they have been refitted.

Of course perceived "age" has a lot to do with maintenance and how much use the aircraft gets. Some of the orange 319s look like they have been flying non stop for 20 years, whereas a 20 year old 320 I flew a few years ago looked brand new.

As to EZY versus MON - as an example - again it all has to do with perceived stability, satisfaction and morale. It is very subjective and personal; a permanent job in what could be considered as a less "robust" airline may be better for some than no contract in a more "robust" airline.

In what respect?

A permanant contract with Monarch looking at the present may well be a step up from a pay by the hour Ryanair FO contract - I too would probably make the move.

When comparing it to a permanant FO contract with easy, particualy on a mainland Europe contract it is a no brainer in my opinion - don't move.

The middle ground is easyJet FlexiCrew......I honestly don't know what I'd do - resign myself to never having a planned future, no guaranteed income, no proper pension, no structure, no respect with a view that the Middle East is a possibility OR join Monarch, a company that right now offers a reasonable amount on a permanant contract. However I think all would agree, if they were to put their money on an airline not being around in the next 5 years then it'll be Monarch. That at least seems to be the opinion with everyone I fly with. If that happens then FlexiCrew, the Middle East or the Far East are going to be the only options for the vast majority if they wish to continue being a pilot......and they're lucky.

'Better the devil you know than the devil you don't'

Anyone joining a privately owned company which discloses nothing and does things like Monarch did earlier this year where their CEO made a rapid exit, never to be justified or replaced should approach cautiously.


I'd finally close by saying Monarch is quite a small airline where I'd have thought 'everyone knows everyone'. People from bigger airlines may not find this comfortable.

AdM

You're not *seriously* suggesting that an FO is better on FlexiScrew at eJ than a permanent contract at MON are you??! If so, can you tell me where I can get a pair of those rose-tinted specs you're wearing please?

What MikeAlphaTangoTango said...

Permanent job, vs Flexiscrew with no guarantee of anything. I know what I'd do...

I'm easy (not flexi anymore!) and in Europe and very happy with my deal and lifestyle and have no intention of going back to the UK (even if they do know how to make a proper cup of tea and not just hot milk with a dash of brown).... however, I have to be very honest if I were still flexi (especially the CTC contract) and if I wanted the UK (which a lot do) then this would be a fantastic opportunity.

Let's not forget that with project Merlin, where are the openings for flexis to get a proper, non pay per hour contract in the UK in the foreseeable future? They're just not there and everyone is sick of the emails offering European contracts saying "but do not apply if you'd like a UK base, opportunities will be available soon" which has been the same story for the last 2 years.

As I said, I am really happy here in easy, but it's not all like this for everyone sadly

P.S Adm, a young person with 18 months in easyJet? That's less than 1500 hours (by quite a long way) and so Emirates isn't an option and you need at least 1.5k for even the Second officer programme at Cathay

Possibly, a few did join earlier this year. Manchester and Gatwick for the 3 757s

AdM, we met at OAA the other day and you either felt sorry for me or didn't want confrontation but you did not say any of that to my face.

In my defence - I failed the BA selection, not enough hours for EK, I've been on flexicrew for over 2 years, my first year I flew 900 hours, this year I have flown 700, which is a DECREASE in pay. Merlin hasn't produced anything at all. My circumstances mean I want to stay in the UK for the forseeable future.

For me going to Monarch is not a backwards step. I have 1800 hours, at eJ I am still an FO (not really an issue) getting paid by the hour. At Monarch I am now an SFO, on £48000 basic plus flight pay. During my groundschool with Monarch I got paid allowances - not at eJ. My uniform has just turned up - paid for by Monarch. It may be a longer time to command than eJ but their expansion plans are looking at an extra 8, possibly 18 aircraft over the next 3 or 4 years. Rumours are another 100 FO's over the next year. There is the oppurtunity of long haul (at the moment anyway), which appeals and with those expansion plans the time to command won't be that long. Even if it's 7 or 8 years it's still less than BA. Do you think that easyJet are going to keep expanding? I don't think there will be much more - everything will slow down then, and guess what - flexicrew commands, think it won't happen? Rose tinted specs.

20 year captain is on £117k plus flight pay - almost as much as you! TC's earn another £25k on top of that. Base trainers another £10k. What is so good at eJ that would keep me there?