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-   -   Monarch Anyone? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/486524-monarch-anyone.html)

Robert G Mugabe 10th Jun 2012 08:08

Tight Seat


Be pro-active, it will help.
Sauce for the goose.....

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 08:23

I can think of several I have flown with who have made the move within the last 5 years.

CaptainProp 10th Jun 2012 10:23


No loyalty or integrity amongst some of the flexicrew and cadet ranks.
Loyalty to what?! Companies that will not even offer them a full time contract but instead temporary ones with no security, no pension, no sick pay and no guarantee of income unless they are flying... You talking about loyalty and integrity to these kind of companies?! Are you serious?!

Don't come here with your BS moral preaching! It is because of more senior guys like us, like you (!), in our industry being too weak and self focused that these type of crap contracts and general deterioration of T&Cs were allowed to be pushed through in the first place.

"Saving the gunpowder for the real fights" or how was it years ago when there was still a fighting chance of stopping this runaway train?

Having said the above I'm not saying that going from easyjet to Monarch, or the other way around, is a good or bad move. In fact it is a very individual decision depending on each persons personal situation and to a certain extent their career aspirations....

TartinTon 10th Jun 2012 10:41

BlackandBrown...ignorance comes in different forms...Monarch has been a mainly scheduled operation since 2005...

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 10:58


BlackandBrown...ignorance comes in different forms...
Quite......


Monarch has been a mainly scheduled operation since 2005...
Are you sure about that?



After many years of operating profitably, Monarch Group, the parent company of Monarch Airlines and Cosmos Holidays, reported a large pre-tax loss of 32.3m in the financial year ending in 2009, which covered the depths of the recession in 2008. This necessitated a 45m cash injection from the Mantegazzas who have [co-]owned the group since its inception. The Mantegazza's cash injection was accompanied by a change in strategy that saw Monarch Airlines changing its focus from being primarily a charter carrier to becoming a predominantly "scheduled leisure airline", with a target of 80% of its business being scheduled (compared with only 20% in 2005).

In the words of the A320 auto thrust system 'retard, retard'

PilotsOfTheCaribbean 10th Jun 2012 12:06


Chief willy I paid for my pilot training (an fATPL) with an unsecured loan via the CTC scheme. I assure you I have never paid for a type rating - I was lucky. People that have had no sensible choice. For example when we began selection/ training in 2006/2007 the economy was incredible - it was a reasonable thing to follow our dreams via ths method. In 2008 the bottom fell out of the world economy. We were passed the PNR. Once qualified people are in for a penny, in for a pound.

B&B,

For someone with a whole handful of years of experience, perhaps we should be grateful for the benefit of the same insightful comment that you so regularly lavish on the British airways thread on this same forum.

A strong industry, even in a fiercely competitive market, is a good thing for everybody with a stake in it. The global economy has certainly been on its knees since you were placed into this sector of the industry. Some of us have longer memories.

When easyjet was born, it was with Monarch 737 aircraft. A lot of its very early growth was with leased in aircraft and crews from Monarch and with the support of Monarch engineering. You were probably still in school in those days, but it would be wise to understand the vulnerability of being number two in this industry. Take a look at the history of aviation companies (as, or with airlines) that have occupied this position: Horizon (Orion airways); Intersun (Air Europe); British Caledonian, etc.

Survival is about the ability to adapt and having the resource to the cash that enables that transformation. Large companies (such as BA) and smaller companies (such as Monarch) have adapted their business models to the realities of the industry in the current and forseeable trading environment. These companies either through public or private resources also have access to the cash to finance these changes. A lot of aviation companies without such resouces, have fallen victim to the reality of that situation, not only in the last 5 years, but throughout the last 90 years.

Monarch has been an excellent employer for over 40 years. It has changed, but continues to be an excellent employer. Even at CTC it is viewed as something of First prize when it comes to placements. I know why that is, and I am sure you know why that is. Monarch has been viewed as more of a career company for many of these graduates, which is why they now comprise nearly a quarter of the entire pilot force, with graduates occupying many senior management and training positions within what is obviously a mature company.

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 12:32

Easyjet started with 737s leased from GB Airways.

I'm not belittling Monarch for trying to adapt and I agree wholeheartedly that competition is essential. What I am debating is the sense in joining Monarch when a person has a permanent flying job. There is no sense in it. As for my flexicrew colleagues who will only accept a permanent UK contract with whoever is willing to give it, they will no doubt get what they deserve, whatever that may be.

Monarch is certainly not (and never was) the prized position from CTC. People wanted BA for the variety/ image or easyJet for the regionality/ quick command/ quick build up of hours. If they told you in an interview they wanted Monarch, well, what did you expect?

It is great that Monarch are offering people a chance now but they too have left cadets after their 'try before you buy' period without a job in the past, several times - I have flown with and know a number who were affected.

TartinTon 10th Jun 2012 12:46

Quote:
Monarch has been a mainly scheduled operation since 2005...

Are you sure about that?
Yes. Yes I am.

Quote:
After many years of operating profitably, Monarch Group, the parent company of Monarch Airlines and Cosmos Holidays, reported a large pre-tax loss of 32.3m in the financial year ending in 2009, which covered the depths of the recession in 2008. This necessitated a 45m cash injection from the Mantegazzas who have [co-]owned the group since its inception. The Mantegazza's cash injection was accompanied by a change in strategy that saw Monarch Airlines changing its focus from being primarily a charter carrier to becoming a predominantly "scheduled leisure airline", with a target of 80% of its business being scheduled (compared with only 20% in 2005).


In the words of the A320 auto thrust system 'retard, retard'
Indeed but don't be so hard on yourself. You shouldn't always believe what you read in a press release (as I'm sure you know from the plethora of Easy releases over the years)

I'm fortunate enough to know the facts and not have to rely on press and conjecture.

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 13:03

Well until you prove it with evidence I'll believe the press release rather than some anonymity on pprune. I make a point and give evidence, you make a point and stomp your feet that you're right because you are 'in the know'.

ZeBedie 10th Jun 2012 14:11


Easyjet started with 737s leased from GB Airways.
Well done for reading Wikipedia, but I can remember seeing ex-Monarch 737s in easyjet livery at LTN. G-MONG and G-BWJA. I think NG became GEZYA.

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 14:32

GB airways operated the first flights. Let's not get too tangential shall we?

tchaikovsky 10th Jun 2012 15:52

Do one BlackandBrown. We get your message now bore off.

Good look to those of you applying. It's a great place to
Work. You will work hard and be treated with respect at the same time. You'll enjoy going to work as the people at Monarch make it that way.

B&B that is not a dig at your employer before you start again. Why would it be, we know how great your employer is anyway and long may you remain there.

DrRedHead 10th Jun 2012 15:55

Advert in this weeks flight

"First Officer Recruitment,

Due to fleet expansion Monarch Airlines has an ongoing recruitment for experienced pilots. New opportunities exist for future basing at EMA and LBA as well as current operations at BHX, LGW and MAN.

Full type rating training will be provided to successful applicants when necessary, however pilots with a rating on A320 family encouraged to apply.'

1/4 page advert

shaftsburn 10th Jun 2012 17:03

Is there an online application mentioned in the new advert?

Flight International isn't available where I'm based, so any further info on the ad would be appreciated :ok:

stop, stop, stop 10th Jun 2012 17:08

There is.......but it is a link to the current Monarch jobs page on their website.

No link to an online form yet. Not that I can see anyways.

PilotsOfTheCaribbean 10th Jun 2012 17:43

B&B,

I was contracted to fly some of those early services back in 96. I remember our 737's being bought by easyjet. You were probably what, 14 or 15 then? But what do I know.

I am not sure why you come on these threads to spread your wealth of experience to people considering companies you yourself have never worked for. Having spent a couple of years tirading against all things British airways, I suppose we should be flattered by your attention.

The internet is a good medium for Trolls. It is also a good mask when it comes to profiling people. I don't know if you remember last year when talking about your own company you said:


Sounds to me like the original poster could be at the wrong size base. Some people like small bases and some like large bases- I really don't like small bases - usually lots of arrogant skygods that have lost touch with reality and the worst bit is you can be rostered to fly with them for several days on the trot. Everyone knows your business, wants to know your business, gossips, expects you all to be best mates and if you aren't then you are an outsider. Everyone has an unqualified opinion on each others abilities - its tiresome.Big bases - turn up, do the job, have the same conversation but with a new person, go home and live life - a healthier balance in my opinion.

I could be wrong but you may want to try a simple base swap to get a base of the opposite size to suit your type - do you have a life or do you like to eat, sleep, breath your colleagues?
Do you have a problem getting along with people generally?

Having annoyed the BA folk here to the 'nth degree, could you do us the courtesy of finding another thread to discuss something you clearly know little or nothing about. Your attitude and comment is most certainly not representative of easyjet, or BA or Monarch, or Indeed CTC cadets in general. Going back to my original comment on adaptability, the same would hold true for improving your chances at interview or getting along with your collegues at smaller bases........................in all probability.

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 18:04

Clearly I've touched a nerve for you to spend your day off - your Sunday that could have spent with your family, to psychoanalyse and investigate my posting history. Play the game, not the player.

Anyway pirate, let's let everyone get on and focus on the title of the thread.

PilotsOfTheCaribbean 10th Jun 2012 18:23

Believe me, you haven't touched a nerve, you are simply driving people up the wall with your inanity in general. Don't worry, I have teenagers who seem to have devoted their lives to doing much the same thing, so I am well practiced.

I am not sure why you think I am spending a day off writing a reply to you, or neglecting my family. I am currently "working" down-route sitting on a beach with my laptop and a cold beer on the wicker table at my side. To be fair the sun is starting to set so I need to go and get ready to meet the crew for dinner...and more beer.

I am not asking you to be grateful for anything, much less something that you had no involvement with whatsoever.


I STILL don't think Monarch are likely to do well looking ahead.

Good! Because given the accuracy of your other posts, that gives me an added sense of confidence.

As for letting everyone "get on with the title and focus of this thread," it is titled "Monarch anyone?" I have nearly three decades of experience, so I feel qualified to answer and contribute with a modicum of gravitas. However if it means you will give it a break, I will happily stand aside.

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 18:28

No, give your advice, I wasn't trying to stop you. I was debating monarch for the future not slating its people who in the most part seem to be good guys. Enjoy the sunset.

FREDA 10th Jun 2012 19:38

B&B, please don't get a life, your posts bring a massive grin to my chops on any thread you grace with your presence.
Bravo!
:ok:


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