More easyJet Pilot Slavery Deals - Oxford Aviation Academy
 

Meerkat Enterprises, having foolishly believed that the worst deal in the history of aviation had just been provided by CTC, are pleased to retract that statement as Oxford Aviation Academy have managed to trump that offer quite substantially. Last Friday OAA sent all its graduates a note, saying that they had worked an 'opportunity' for 20 graduates to start a self-funded Type Rating in January for 'a UK airline'. The airline in question has now been confirmed as easyjet. The deal on offer is £34000 for an A320 Type Rating and 75 hours line training. After this, the 'lucky' candidates will receive work for summer 2010 and possibly beyond. Needless to say, no money will be paid until AFTER completing the line training. Thereafter remuneration will be approx £50 per LFU for the first 12 months.

Slavery is indeed alive and well in the UK - what would William Wilberforce have said about this I wonder?

These type of 'great deals' surely (don't call me Shirley) cannot go on for much longer as no will be able to live, let alone pay off the loan required with this sort of remuneration. Is this not below the minimum wage?

No ordinary mortal will be able to pay for the CTC/ OAA scheme plus type rating in the future if there are no suitably paid jobs at the end of the training. Very few will have access to the bank of mum and dad especially with the reduction in house prices and the difficulty of remortgaging.

All the best to those looking for a job

including me!!!:O

As per my post on another T and C thread about easyjet and contract Captains, the Russians are coming!!

My mate told me that the advisor to the orange board, the greek economics guy, said that Russian pilots were "the bargain of the century" and it was only a matter of time before they found the mechanism to employ them and so to "decimate terms and conditions across the UK airline industry", as he put it "to the great benefit of passengers - flying an aeroplane is no more socially useful than driving a bus and should be paid accordingly", so my mate recounted. The fact that this genius of economics is talking out of his *rse does not seem to bother the easy board who are, apparently, listening with rapt attention.

Soon it wont just be the FOs that are paid peanuts (or indeed, as here paying to sit in the flightdeck) - Captains will be paid peanuts too. This industry is shot to sh*t.

I'm no expert but it would appear that Easy are in dire need of a load of cheap FO's quickly, what with this 'scheme' and the CTC one. I use scheme lightly as it isn't really a scheme is it, it's a laugh.
I bet if no one signed up a better one will come along. And if that was ignored perhaps a better one again. Keep ignoring the pathetic offers eventually you may even get paid enough to live on.

We have not lost the battle yet!! As for the latest Oxford offer like the rest is pure s**t and if anyone signs up for it then you are a nutter and I have no sympathy!:mad::mad:

As long as some short sighted individual is willing to shell out 34k for a rating and, MAYBE 6mths (say 400hrs) on type, whilst ignoring the fact that experienced F/O's laid off by XL /Sterling/Skyeurope etc are being systematically ignored by Ryan & Easy in preference to taking another blokes 34k, there will be no end to this nonsense.
How anyone can have the lack of imagination (or conceit?) to think that he/she is a marketable prospect with a handful of hrs on type , when the market is flooded with experienced folk, is beyond me.
How you can convince yourself, your bank, or your parents that this is anything other than futile amazes me. Or do the little lambs really believe that Easy are going to keep them in preference to taking more dosh ?:rolleyes:

Like taking candy from a baby. :suspect:

At least with Ryanair they are given a (not wonderful) Brookie contract, and even if their hrs go down once they pass the 500JAR hr mark, at least they remain in "employment" (of sorts) Still cr@p, but not on the scale of this insult to the profession Easy are adding to the previous CTC merde.
As prev posters have said, this is only the beginning, further self prostitution at all career levels looks like the future, think I would be better moving into wholesale distribution of vaseline, THAT is the future growth area in aviation.

Interesting that economic gurus could be referring to airline pilots as 'socially useless'.That is the specific phrase that Lord Myners I believe,used to describe the bankers who until recently virtually brought the world to its knees economically.

Having spent in excess of 6 years at easyJet and had a ring side view of the antics of the 'managers 'of that era I have always known the contempt directed at the pilots.It was initially a surprise having come from good airlines that treated crew properly and with (mutual) respect.I have tried to say here on numerous occasions that easy are just as bad and probably worse than the Ryans in many ways. I hope now with this ludicrous attempt to destroy the pilot profession that they can be seen in their true colours(creepy orange).Any new pilot who signs up to this has mental health issues and/or a stunning lack of basic economic theory.

atb

Look at it from a cadet's point of view. £65K down, low hours, no job prospects, loan to start paying back, blinded by the propaganda that you're on an Airline Preparation Program (i.e. APP first officer or something like that) and you can see why there's a queue of young lads and lasses with a £34K cheque.

I'm not saying it's right, far from it, I'm just pointing out how they get away with it. Very clever stuff and a great business to be in. Nobody stops it as it's only affecting a minority, if affected the masses then they'd wheel in Anne Robinson (Watchdog, no not her it's the show she presents) and the faces of Airline/OAA/CTC/etc Management would be plastered all over prime time tele and portrayed as villains (come on boo and hiss, it is panto season!..."they are behind you!"(I won't go into what they are doing there)).

So what should a OAA/CTC victim do? Pay the £34K and try and make some sort of progress? Walk away from aviation until the supply demand relationship swings the other way? Buy a more sought after TR e.g. on a turbo prop? teach PPL in a SEP until you meet a nice man who let's you come fly for his aviation outfit?

Ideally it needs all graduates to boycott such schemes, but how the hell does one control that. There will always be several who have the cash or just don't care and break ranks and undermine the whole idea.

To those cadets being setup!!!

YOU ARE BEING USED!! DO NOT HAND OVER ANOTHER 34K!!

Yes this is Easy for me to say I hear you say, but I have been in lots of debt like you. You may not like my advise but honestly you are just being ripped off and you WILL be dropped like a stone when summer is over and there is a fresh load willing to shell out! Use your brains guys/gals.:ugh::ugh:

Better dead than red.
 

Good God, Fred, is that the best you can do?

I suppose since it worked on the Americans for the length of the cold war, you might be encouraged to take it out for a test drive, but really?

The bloody Russians are coming? Shiva H. Krishnu, you union scare mongers really are scraping the bottom of the barrel these days.

If that were true, we would have hired Chinese, Ugandans and Bangladeshi pilots by now because they're supposedly cheap too. No mention of right of abode though, the language barrier, quality of airmanship or, in the case of the Russians, the ability to spend as many as twelve hours in a row stone, cold sober! Highly questionable expectations, especially the last.

There's only one Russian I'm interested in at the moment, and he's furry, stands about a foot tall, and looks very dapper indeed in a burgundy smoking jacket.

This is a truely shocking scheme but I suspect it will be oversubscribed :ugh::ugh:

Fortunately, FR's growth policy change, this scam and the new CTC scheme may just be enough to tip the balance with the banks (who are already adopting a hard line I understand) to put an end to such degradations of terms.

It does also go to make the FR recruitment look more attractive than it might have previously - at least you get paid a reasonable amount and should get a healthy dose of hours.

115 applied to an OAA selection panel, 30 short listed, 24 of those will go to interview, 20 places available. So i guess that makes 95 who will ultimately be spared another huge mountain of debt.

With numbers like this it's no wonder airlines offer "opportunities" of this nature.

Oh and the type rating will be done in OAA sims and the FOs will be on a Parc contract, so most of the £34K goes into the pot of companies that have become OAA branded in one form or another over recent years.

I have read a lot on here in 5 years to make me feel disgusted, this takes the biscuit.

Oxford are aligning with this why? ... that's a question that has to be answered. Surely its to ensure an adequate number of people apply for the zero to hero course with the glimmer of a potential job at the end. They must feel it offers them an edge in the current climate, an additional marketing tool if nothing else. Makes them appear to have connections and one of the few avenues available. For a school that prides itself on not being the cheapest but the best/high standards etc. it is appalling.

Problem is that with 115 applying for 20 places its in demand. The fact that its attached to Oxford is maybe not the best barometer if you were to take a cross section of the past and present students and how they have funded their training and their attitude when so many feel they eclipse their contemporaries who go via other means (granted this is a generalisation from my experiences of Oxford candidates and does not cover all). Put the option to the same number of modular pilots, I can guarantee 115 wouldn't apply.

I hope an OAA executive reads this and re-evaluates their position, because they are doing a disservice to the industry and their future customers.

LEO!!

Didnt stop Ryan with the Varig guys did it!!!!

But then language barriers create no problems do they???

Although I have sympathy for the cadets, I sometimes wonder if they know that when there dumped for a cheaper product do they realise they are unlikely to ever get another airline job?? Ask any experienced redundant FO, the so called "safe" LoCos dont want to know as they have a new guy for free whos going to pay X amount for TRSS and line training without a contract?? But thats fine its great for the pax!!!:ugh:

I stand corrected:it was Lord Turner,chairman of the FSA who described certain bankers as 'socially useless'.

Sff,

Would you care to tell us who your mate is and what his source is? Also who is the "Greek economics guy"? We ought to know.

AdM,

Where is the evidence that this is the case? Likewise for the latest CTC terms "on offer"? Is there something, a link or otherwise, that you can post here so that we can all see it? It's not that I don't believe you, simply that we need to know the irrefutable facts, not rumour, if we are to mount a campaign to stop it.

I think he's referring to Rigas Doganis

Applemacster

Dreamshiner,
I actually think you have touched on a very important point here. In some ways you can't blame OAA for offering this scheme - as as you point out, without it, it's just more (f)ATPL holders waiting on an upturn.

However one has to question whether in offering this scheme OAA have undercut their own USP - which is to be percieved as "the best" (and please note all, I'm not arguing for one second whether OAA ARE or ARE NOT the best - simply that from a pure business perspective this is their USP). In offering this particular scheme I wonder if OAA have moved away from "the best" and instead relegated themselves to "any other" FTO and in so doing having just become a more expensive version of the licence one can gain at any other school.

Wingswinger. This scheme exists. Speaking as an OAA grad who has said no to it...can't vouch for the numbers, save that I'm one of the 95.

Hear hear!! Indeed, its impossible to differentiate one source of degradation from the other nowadays. Alas, to see OAA banded in the same paragraph as FR is truly shameful but they're now one of their larger providers of cadets. How the mighty fall.

If the banks stopped lending, the music would stop very rapidly and it would not be untenable to see FTO's (offering such shocking schemes) fold. A blessing in disguise perhaps for the uneducated or grossly misguided.

Although Airlines are to blame for accepting these schemes. It is ultimately the Flight Training providors that have won the race to the bottom!

Surely we have now reached rock bottom and a return to the normal recruiting practices soon awaits?

Finaly airlines ignore the current avialable experianced guys at their peril. In the next two years to come these will be the ones that will fill the many left hand seat opportunities. It is sad to think those most in need of these guys easy ala ryanair are the ones ignoring them..

Matt.V
Sorry mate but can you explain what have you got against eastern european pilots pls? Are you saying that it is ok for ezy or fr to fly to prague or karkow but as long as there is a brit behind the controls??
Mac:ugh:

Think Matt is saying we don't want cheap eastern european pilots filling right/left seats and I agree with him!!

So do I, especially when it is a BRITISH airline and there are so many qualified BRITISH pilots unemployed. Yes we require higher pay because the cost of living in this crap country is so high. I have just seen 'wife swap' in which an unemployed woman with 7 kids takes home £2700 a month after tax and a building contractor is earning 90K a year. Meanwhile people are supposed to accept 18K a year because an Eastern European will do the job for less or because 115 berks (and yes I do mean absolute, catastrophic, thick and very deluded berks) at Oxford have applied for this horrendous scheme. I hope they take their parents down with them - all 115 of them - that ought to sort this :mad: out. The industry is absolutely shafted at the moment, it's an embarrasment.

TheBeak
why dont you move abroad then if you dont like it here so much?
ive been living in the uk for the last 8 years and has always been paid the same as my BRITISH colleagues. I have a new years resolution for you -less "me,me,me" and a bit more "we,we,we"
M

Good for you. I don't see where the 'me, me, me' is in my post? I was speaking about British pilots and the future of the piloting career in general with my post. A good opportunity for you to share your New Years resolution none-the-less.

1. It isn't slavery if you sign up for it.

2. It isn't right or wrong, it's just where the market is right now.

3. It will continue until everyone works out that the "recession" is over.

4. People who sign up for this aren't stupid or deluded, they just want the gig and are prepared to pay for it. Happens in every downturn, it isn't new. I can remember people buying type ratings back in the '80s.

5. Why do people expect airlines to continue paying high salaries when they don't have to? It's a business, it's all about balancing your cost base against safety.

I'd be the first to agree that things were a lot better 20 years ago (if you were in BA, anyway), but the world has moved on. Either get to grips with reality or find another career.

For myself, the more I see of the modern airline career, the more I want a different one!

You lot are welcome to it.

The 'low cost' chickens must eventually roost.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." (Goethe) ;)

They are and stupid, deluded people existed in the 80s too. Besides, buying a TR with a guaranteed job at the end is one thing, buying a TR with 50 - 75 hours attached when qualified, experienced people are losing theirs is disrespectful, a complete mockery of the food chain, bad karma, short termist (what do they think will happen the following year - much, much more so on a scheme like this than Ryanairs), impatient and dreadfully, ignorantly thick in my view. Of course, little William, whos parents are so proud that he has scraped a CPL/IR will pay for it so that they can say at dinner parties that 'William's now a pilot for Easyjet'.

(Disclaimer: no I am not at Oxford having lost out on a scheme like this to someone rich called William, nor have I ever!)

I couldn't understand the Ryanair scheme and why people signed up for it, I REALLY can't understand this. This makes the Ryanair deal look excellent. It's absolutley appauling. And to offer it as an 'opportunity' is laughable - an opportunity for who? OAA/ Parc and EasyJet and that is it.

The fact it has been forced on the CTC people is a completely different debate and one that the trainees thus far are not at fault over.

The easy trainers should refuse to line train those that are paying.easy to say but with collective will it could work.

atb

The Beak - Amen to that. I think you have summed up what hundreds of guys are feeling. This whole thing runs much deeper than just whacking a ton of money down that Mummy and Daddy have fronted up (because lets face it, the banks won't for much longer!) Its also a moral view point and an ethical code of conduct that comes into play here, especially with regard to your fellow (much more experienced) pilots in the current climate.

Cue the hardcore business analysts who will claim that this is purely economic forces at work and business is business...

Not the trainers. The union. That's what we have unions for.

Partly correct, because a union without strong support from it's members is worth nothing.

Ask yourself the following question: why don't airlines like Air France, BA, Lufthansa, KLM etc have any of these pay-for-type-rating deals? Answer: they have a strong union and pilot corps with a backbone and the foresight that this will lead to disaster! :uhoh:

Both the union and the membership won't allow it!

It is interesting to see that some of you are surprised at an organisation like Oxford getting involved in such a scheme. However it must be remembered that a Flight Training Organisation is a business and the intention is to generate a profit. There is nothing illegal with this scheme and given the facilities that are now under the Oxford training umbrella, I can see more schemes like this in the future. I would also expect that this scheme will be very lucrative for Oxford as well.

Oxford are now in a very strong position and far stronger than CTC when you compare the facilities at their disposal. Will 2010 see Oxford becoming the 'Pay as you go' TRTO of choice for these airlines? I suspect it could well be! :eek:

As someone who has had a very charmed route into the airline industry:

PPL at Biggin Hill then hour building and distance learning ATPL theoretical
Flight school - Jerez
Unpaid safety pilot job - about 6 months
Regional FO (flybe) - just under 2 years
Shorthaul FO (BA) - Airbus

I have little right to preach about the pro and cons of paying for a TR - it's something that by my own admission i've never had to consider.

Just be wary guys and gals - cheques only take seconds to write out but paying them back can take a decade or even longer (I say this from experience). If the money is your parents and paying it back is not the issue then ask yourself what is the liklihood you'll be kept on after your contractual package with Easyjet has ended? - If the answer is 'unlikely' you'll find yourself with a further 30 odd grand to repay and adrift in a sea of currently unemployed 737 type rated chaps/chapesses who have many thousands of hours compared to your 500.

I understand the quandry. In the old days the route to the RHS was a well trodden one, flight school then instructor or parachute dropper or safety pilot then turboprop driver (or 73) and so on. This path has become muddied not only by the downturn but also by new pilots shelling out for these packages in the hope of leap frogging the rest of the pack. And the truth is (IMHO) so many people have started to do it that in a way this has become the new norm - the point being there is no longer such an advantage to be had by doing it.

Its easy to be seduced by the dream (and it can be great career despite things looking pretty down beat right now) just think long and hard before each move you make.

CB

How about setting up a strike throughout Europe and put an end to all this madness ?

When will Balpa firmly oppose the continuous fall in T&Cs ? When will BALPA require us captains to act and keep those airplanes on the ground ? Another 10 years and there'll be no descent jobs and we'll all have to speak Russian.

Why in hell did I quit my finance job ????

Industrial legislation
 

@FRying

I don't believe you can strike for something that doesn't [B]directly[B] affect you otherwise it is "secondary action" , which is, I think, illegal.

Apart from that, I reckon MOL would be a lot quicker with his injunctions than WW. Either that or a bunch o' big lads from Dublin.

Doesn't affect me ???? Of course this affects me ! It affects the whole bloody pilots population. Isn't it obvious ???

No , it doesn't affect you DIRECTLY (tried to put this in bold in last post ).

If it was your company then yes, but your can't legally strike about what happens at another company ( seconday action).

IR laws brought inbefore/ during 1980's NUM strike to stop railwaymen/steelworkers etc supporting miners.

Chief Brody,

Here here, couldn't have put it better myself !!!

Regards P.