hi geoff - great argument for letting my career going down the potty.so you can have a cheap swan of to wherever.maybe you should give us a call if anything develops and we will make sure that your flight is not disturbed.you nearly had me going there,you joker you.now switch off the light and go back to bed luvvy.

bongle bear - "if balpa recognition costs 1 job,in your estimation the cost is too high".what about the captain fired in stn last week by ryanair union busting management for talking about a union.does that same logic apply?is that job loss equally of value,or was it all balpas fault for getting him fired.

pilots of ema beware slim and his missus abusing the sky are about to open a can of union busting whoop ass on you.they assume you have no brains of your own and that they should do your thinking for you.

Repa
I have read your post on here carefully, and find you a committed BALPA member, for which I applaud your fortitude.
BUT
You are so convinced in the right of your cause that you have lost sight of the big picture, and whose lives you will be seriously effecting.
Every person who does not agree with you is labled a management stooge, but I can see here that we are takling real people, something you are not prepared to accept.
When your self interest effects the lives / jobs of your colleagues, that is the time when you should step back and re-evaluate your goals.
The job market is so poor at the moment and will be for at least a year, and there are many pilots willing to take your jobs.
Should you wish to put your job and many others at risk for little or no positive return then I think at your next medical you should tell the doctor that you have a mental disorder.
You may think that calling the bluff of RYR will result in you and the BALPA members winning the day, I am sorry to say that from the outside looking in that you do not have a hope in winning, and you will be responsible for loosing jobs.
Like Day_Dreamer stated the Loss of even one job is too high a price to pay.
You have not looked into what would happen to the hundreds of lives which would be touched by one base closure, only looking at "ME" factor !!!
Its time to consider the "US" side including Famillies, Pilots, Engineers, Cabin Crew and Ground Staff.

I have only seen one party making intimidatory memos and setting out rumours across the network through the various channels. So true to form who do you think it likely is?

I can say that Ryanair management are here on PPRUNE to stir the pot. It's all about making the pilots feel isolated and as individuals and a minority no matter what your beliefs or way of thinking. Split and all is won for management.

Divide and conquer. Divide and conquer and implement fear. It is the only way Ryanair management know how to play. Individuals need to be able to see this surely? Management must be rubbing their hands in glee at seeing these tactics work. Please wake up and realise what these types of tactics are for, what and how they are used. They want to set pilots against each other in such a way as when there is no cohesion and turning on each other as it is easier to spilt a group and do what their agenda is. Simple warfare tactics is that.

Sorry but I think you have to see this for what it is. Collectively and as one is the only way this whole situation and mess will be sorted out.

A great response to a passenger, it's the passengers that generate the revenue that PAY YOUR wages.

You seem to think that MOL wont have an airline without you.

Without people like Geoff in York, buying tickets, you wont have a job.

Geoff makes a fair point. It is not a good time to throw your toys out of the pram and make demands.

Geoff makes a fair point that LoCo ticket buyers dont have brand loyalty.

Yet all you can do to a fair comment from a passenger is to be rude and derisory? Very professional! Yet with the same breath you demand dignity and respect?


I wont hold my breath waiting for the sound of the "pop" from your head coming out of your ass.

All very interesting.....wish I had been unionised when I lost my job, maybe a little compensation might have come my way....however, when is this "vote" to take place? Can you simply not vote yes/no and get on with the outcome? As it is, you guys can open up thread after thread on these FR issues and still NOTHING will get resolved! Vote, and move on. Still all very enjoyable reading.........but pointless

The Future of Ryanair?
 

grim repa
 

It was his own fault, not BALPAs or Ryanairs. He knew the risks he was taking by discussing this during working hours. I'm not saying I agree with his dismissal, but it is his own fault.

I disagree. I fly with "slim and his missus" quite often and I know their intentions. He has made it quite clear that he will not be chasing certain promotions within the companies training department due to license restrictions.

What Slim, in my opinion, is trying to do is point out that hardly anyone wants BALPA anywhere near EMA or EMT, therefore not even letting it get to the point where the 10% of BALPA members could push this vote through.

It would now appear that BALPA don't want to listen to this, as they have made clear in email responses.

Terry - or your stand in; because you're on your holidays (perfect timing, just like your whole campaign) - there have been over 93% of EMA and EMT based pilots saying they don't want BALPA - the other 7% didn't even say yes, those were abstain votes.

Please don't persue this at our base, through Captain L*****s work it has been made clear that as a base you're not wanted.

What are you going to do if I lose my job because you force your way in?

Please explain: the recognition campaign is based on the results of a vote which , if not made in Iranian style, should see the majority as the winners.
How do you force your way in?

Another question: will you loose your job because the majority has voted for what is a constitutional right?

In the civilized world no one should loose their jobs because they democratically voted for a union with the intent of helping the company AND the employees grow together.

Yes dannyalliga, no one should loose their jobs but they will do. Its time people realised this.

Its time to start thinking about the real possibility of loosing your job, your flightdeck friends, your cabin crew friends, the engineers who you call on for weight changes/problem solving - all loosing their jobs.

**I ask the question again - if you vote yes and end up loosing your job, will you still say Balpa is the answer???** :confused:

One final point, Grim, i usually find your posts well thought out and informative even though we are of differing opinions. However of late they have unfortunately become a mass of impolite, aggressive and immature name calling. := Shame on you!!

Why on earth does anyone work for this sort of enterprise? :ugh:

@ bonglebear

I am not commenting about whether you or anybody should vote for or against BALPA, since I do not work for RYR, nor have anything to do with it. However, I am highly amazed how anybody can defend/rationalize sacking a employee for merely discussing joining a union (cabin or cockpit).
We are not talking about plans to kill MOL, sabotage airplanes or spy on company secrets, we are talking about discussing basic employee rights, the right to form a union.

I am sure anybody agrees that merely talking about it should not be a reason to dismiss anybody, but how on earth can it be his own fault then?
Is RYR allready the 1984 equivalent where merely speaking your mind gets you teminated (or at least your contract?). What's next, anybody heard complaining about a long working day gets sacked? Complaining about a stale (bought) sandwich gets dismissed? It is not his fault, it is the fault of the responsible manager who got him fired and therefore the company...
I do agree that it might not have been the smartest thing to do in a company like RYR, but landing on Omaha beach wasn't either. And was it your own fault if you got shot there?

Again, I do not work for RYR, nor fly with them or have close friends who do any of those two, but I am appalled that this 19th century practice is still in use and that there are people who, with a crazy logic, do condone it..

Mr Stranger

Whilst the guy's dismissal was unfortunate there is always more to it than meets the eye: think what you see of the iceberg vs what is below the waterline.

He also had BALPA representation: lot of good that did him!!!

Mr Wake Turbulence,

We work for this company because apart from a couple of small issues it is a good place to be: well paid, secure, don't get messed around with our rosters, new equipment, stacks of leave etc.

What you have here are maybe 6 hardcore whingers out of over 2000 pilots: the whingers who are trumpeting the cause of unionisation have, in general, been with the company a long time.

They haven't had, they don't have, nor will have, a snowball's chance of getting BALPA or any ALPA recognition, but even though they don't like the place, they don't quit and join an airline which has the "dignity,respect and redundancies" they crave.

The vast majority, most who are a silent majority, go to work (employee ) do their jobs very well, go home at the end of every day ( no night stops you see) and pick up a not insubstantial pay check at the end of the month and a further sector payment in the middle of the month.

A point worth making;

There are TREs, and indeed Base TREs in Ryanair operating on UK licenses.

Holding a UK license does not exclude you from becoming a TRE.
:=

In which case why all the fuss about a ballot for recognition as presumably the result will be an overwhelming rejection. The amount of propaganda against Balpa doesn't seem to tie in with this though.

@The Real Slim Shady

There might be more to his dismissal then is know to me or to most boardmembers, however, that still does not mean that being fired for promoting an union means you getting fired is your own fault, as some of the esteemed members of this board seem to think. And since I do not know at what stage he currently is in his dismissal (is he going to court, etc) I cannot allready tell if BALPA is benificial to him or not. But that wasn't the point of my post, since I am not in the position to talk about BALPA or it's use. (being neither employed by RYR or in the UK)

Totally right tocamak,

If the majority don't support it why not let it go to a free, confidential vote (not like a named email where individuals can be picked out for no matter what their beliefs are? Democracy Ryanair style just like Iran and N. Korea!) and see what the outcome is? Democracy rules..

To try and deny that right by TWISTING the TRUTH for ones own argument or agenda which we have all established, of the laws and acts in statute which does represent natural justice is alarming and very disappointing.

I'm sure colleagues across the flight deck and in the Crewroom will appreciate the attempt to misrepresent facts for some sort of motivation? :sad:

If the motivation and argument is job security would it not be better to stand together as a large group of pilots to maintain your job? There is 197 A/C to crew and that won't change either way.

If the said individual does believe the base will vote one way then why not let pilots vote in a free, confidential ballot? To try and deny that right with misleading and FALSE arguments is simply disgusting! :yuk:

It's simple really
 

It is ILLEGAL to intimidate employees who wish to form a union
It is ILLEGAL to fire people for talking about wanting to join a union
Ryanair management are intimidating you into not signing up for union recognition because they do not wish to negotiate - they prefer to impose their will on their employees.

Such practices were made illegal after WW2 by the first Labour Government.

Management CANNOT just dismiss employees for joining a union. BALPA would fight such dismissal for very expensive employee compensation.

IF you are unionised you always have ultimate power - YOU CAN STRIKE, YOU CAN GROUND THE AIRLINE, Doing this is agony to management, shareholders and the bullies like O'Leary. That of course is what he is frightened of.

Wake up and realise why you must be strong, where would we be be if in the Battle of Britain pilots had said 'Oh I don't want to go up flying today in case somebody takes a shot at me' - Living under the Nazis is where we'd be...

If you believe in democracy rather than martial law you need a union. Sure BALPA isn't perfect, but it's what we've got and it's the only thing that protects those of us who work in other airlines from the kind of abominable and borderline illegal practices that your management exhibit.

Incidentally why oh why isn't somebody talking to the press about this employee intimidation - after all the company has put its threats in writing and they are ILLEGAL!!

Desk-pilot

OK DeskPilot and alibaba.

Put your money where your mouths are ad come out, up front, real names and vote for BALPA.

Get BALPA in at your base: fight for it.

Then when your base is closed get BALPA to fight your corner at Tribunal.

2 years later you might get £60K in compensation: don't think Wee Willy's mob (BALPA airline), or the Bearded Wonder's mob (BALPA airline) or Deutsch BMI (BALPA airline) will be beating a path to your doors with job offers.

Can't see the BALPA hierarchy losing much sleep about making their mortgage payments!!

BALPA are in this for the politics: if they actually gave a monkeys about the welfare of the pilots ( cabin crew, engineers and ground staff) at any FR base in the UK, they would stop right now and focus their attentions on helping out the pilots of BA, VS , bmi and any other outfit unfortunate enough to have to deal with them.

Sorry desk pilot, but that is non-sequitur.

where does RAF pilots in the battle of Britain fit in to unionization?

your argument could equally be transposed, that if the RAF was unionized, the flight crews could have taken an elected position not to fly due to the personal risk.

Either way, it is a pointless analogy as military service personnel are not unionized and failure to act under command has it repercussions. Military service under a declaration of war is not comparable to commercial operations.

Democracy relates to a methodology of governance, not a commercial operation that exists to make a profit.

There are many conceptual forms of democracy in existence. So why democracy is a method of governance it is also a method of determining outcomes through free and fair debate and the decision of the majority. Such forms of democracy are known as polyarchy and aggregative democracy.

Aristotle stated; "But one factor of liberty is to govern and be governed in turn; for the popular principle of justice is to have equality according to number, not worth, and if this is the principle of justice prevailing, the multitude must of necessity be sovereign and the decision of the majority must be final and must constitute justice"

This is describing what social justice is about and how our laws are constructed and how we live in most western European nations. So if it is to be ruled with a form of democracy or live in a form of tyranny and autocracy I know as a free thinking person what I will choose. By trying to deny people the right to vote by MISLEADING people. The email and people are acting in benefiting tyranny and against democracy. SIMPLE.. Any arguments the person may have had have been undermined simply by the act of deceit.

197 A/C have to be crewed and need engineers so if aircraft get moved they are still going to have to staffed. Ryanair have a legal obligation under EU, UK and most other EU countries law to offer you alternative positions or arrangements in these other bases. You might have to move but your job or position is still going to have to be maintained and that is without discussing if closing a base because of recognition (as you say will happen) is even legal. Will your position be maintained? Yes it will.

The time you are going to be at risk is when Ryanair ground aircraft and put you on unpaid leave in the winter period. Whether you like it or not it is coming your way over the coming year the same way it came to STN last winter. What are you going to do about that with the company becoming more and more seasonal? FO's with years of experience are now being paid less than London Tube drivers! I'll let you work out why that it is..

I have seen a number of BRK FO's struggling to make bill payments because of a lack of flying never mind if the said individual gets injured. Just a question; Will you pay his or her bills once the winter down happens or he breaks a leg? These individuals have on or around £100,000 of debt but are struggling to make loan repayments from flight training. One had to declare himself bankrupt. Just a normal guy who came unstuck due to not flying. Another received multiple months of forced A/L and had to move out of his apartment as he couldn't afford to live. Is that what you call full time employment? I call that seasonal work likened to teenagers working over the summer holidays with the added bonus of having more debt than they know what to do with. Doesn't matter though, at least there are some jobs in Val Thoren in the winter!

The amount of movements has to be maintained in these airports. W patterns will not maintain these movements numbers. The UK market is the largest market and nearly half of all movements are in or out of the UK. If you think Fidelity Investments and Merrill Lynch are going to let DOB, EW and whatever DOB calls PB get away with risking that sort of financial income, then you are naive at best. This is all about the perception of power but shareholders will not let the said individuals step to far including MOL himself in trying to maintain an unsustainable ideology.

In maintaining these movements comes local jobs with these bases. The local development funds and tourism councils that supply Ryanair with money either through direct funding or through proxy's such as the airports, demand job creation and stability. Ryanair are going to find it very difficult to apply multiple closures while trying to stave off airport and development fund contracts as well as the contracts of service with the service providers. Multiple breaches of contract with many, many legal challenges before we even get to workers legal challenges.

Then we get to the local, national governments as well as the European Union. Many politicians whether senior national or local will have many things to say about such action being directed at their continuances workers because of a group of pilots trying to obtain union recognition for collective bargaining and the freedom to association. If you think the UK government will also have nothing to say about it then you would be wrong. Ryanair management can do what it wants with its leaser’s aeroplanes but it can't flout the law while doing so! The various branches of governments have considerable amounts of power to apply pressure as HMRC have been doing. Ryanair management has already had various brushes with the EU about other matters and LOST every time such as the Walloon government EU case. Ryanair is less likely to try and go to war with them on freedom of association and collective bargaining rights as the law is very clear on these subjects. They just rely on the perception to everyone no matter whom they are that they will. In other words all Ryanair managers have to do is sell you the aroma of invincibility when in very real terms they are not.

All these things without the workers applying the pressure of collective organisation on the company themselves which can bring the company to it knees if so desired. This is not the way forward though as has been said many times. Partnership is what is required.

PART TIME SEASONAL CONTRACTS or FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT? Your choice but only if colleagues give you that choice.. :rolleyes:

But i don't want to move! That's the point i (and many others are) am trying to make! I am perfectly fine where i am now. Why should i pay a rent somewhere outside the UK when i have my house here in the Midlands? Are you, your pro BALPA friends and BALPA itself going to pay for my rent when i get transferred so i can afford to pay for the mortgage?? I can't do both you know.


Again, will YOU pay for my rent when i am transferred outside the UK because MOL is so pi$$ed off with this BALPA thing that he's going to close down the base?
I do feel sorry for these guys and gals, and i honestly wish them all the best and hope they get back on their feet. However, isn't it all laid down in their T&C's? I'm sure the company wouldn't do that without looking into T&C's first. They are not stupid, they are a BUSINESS and will do whatever it takes to keep it going. What they won't do is being careless and find themselves taken to court. They've done it in the past and lost. I guess they learned a lesson.


Correct, however closing the UK bases won't affect the company's revenue one bit; they will simply relocate a/c's "at the other end". They'll still have flights in or out of the UK, and still keep the UK market which indeed, is the largest methinks. Opening a base in say BTS won't cost as much as a bases' costs in the UK. It's all economics. All about money, revenue and profits. Would you do it differently should you have your own airline?

Now, who's supplying who with money? Wasn't the FR-VLC apt tiff all about that? VLC apt wanted more money off FR? FR bring in pax; pax pay lots of taxes when they purchase their tickets, part of these "taxes" going to the area councils/govs/authorities where the apt is.
Job creation and stability.... basically take an engineers' job who is perfectly content and happy with his/her UK base as he/she only lives down the road from the apt and who can't take the company's transfer offer on because his/her parents are ill and he/she needs to stay locally to look after them, and give his/her job to a contractor engineer, more workload on this person's shoulders but for the same money he/she earns already. Ruin 2 lives at one time, why don't you?


So does BALPA. At least you don't pay Ryanair a "membership fee" and you know exactly what to expect from them, good or bad.


If you can prove and guarantee me in writing that FR will not close my base down should BALPA be recognized, a document signed by all the FR head honchos guaranteeing i will keep my job in the base i am now, i will then be more than happy to stop posting and "outrage" my dearest F/D colleagues with my opinions.
You can't? Thought so...

So what if the fo's are paid less than the London tube drivers.

Maybe the tube drivers are overpaid:ugh:

the less fo's get paid, the more I will:ok:

I have a bigger and stronger pair than you pal and i am all woman!!!

TRSS has a way bigger pair as he doesn't hide behind Pprune anonymity - people know who he is and he never denied it.

There are more people with a bigger "pair" than yours and your union supporter friends; just have a read through the thread to see how many sensible, who can see the reality as it is people DO NOT want BALPA involved in the company because it will not only affect their jobs, but their lives too.

I'll quote myself, just for you:

Alibaba

Your view of the Airline economics is correct in a perfect world, but we live in a real world, where perfection is a myth.

The post that I have read from you are all flawed in several aspects, and are infact pure BALPA style propaganda.

The jobs will be lost, bases closed and lives wrecked.
You mention the BRK pilots, they have No say now and will still have NO say should BALPA get in.
Your misguided statements are the type that creates insecurities within a workforce, as they show that there is hope after base closure.
You forget the statement that there will be no Pilot relocation, there is a guarantee of that. Base closed Your out, Bye Bye dont leave the lights on if your last to leave the base.

Powdermonkey

You too are not helping with your remarks, and statement to "Grow Some".
Look at how BALPA are acting with the redundancies in Virgin, and their lapdogs in BA, its not MOL running those companies (Although he could not do any worse ) the people who are, are accountants.
They are the architects of all the industries cutbacks and reductions in T&C's

I predict that there will be many more job losses in the industry this winter, do those who support BALPA think that they can stop this ?
Dont be stupid, economics will require cutback in all scheduled and charter airlines into late 2010.
Do you want work, or the dole que.
We have seen MOL playing ball, now watch him play "Hardball"

Still nobody has answered what part the BRK pilots will play, or even if they will be given a voice.
The "I'm alright Jack" brigade will bust your a.. every time.
The BALPA or Bust brigade will cause more grief to their colleagues (Who they care nothing about) than they could ever imagine.

BALPA cannot and will not protect you. Its your career, your job, protect your colleagues.

Ok....may I recant the "grow a pair " comment, it was however based on the fact that "fear" of outcome is driving people to not fight for and preserve conditions which are without question in decline!
So let's move on, the issue is not that BALPA or IALPA will save your job if due to genuine economical issues, positions will be made redundant, **** happens, I KNOW! however the issue is that you should have the RIGHT to vote for OR against recognition, WITHOUT any fear of losing your base, job, way of life etc....and until ALL get involved and allow democracy to rule, then economic crisis or boom time, it won't matter, BECAUSE without a common voice, management can do whatever they desire to reduce costs and keep share holders happy, for they will ALWAYS demand more,
Vote, have your voice heard, and move with the outcome. BUT unfair treatment is NOT acceptable in any workplace. That is all the point that I am making.

FURTHERMORE, there MAY and I pray not, come a day when you or one of your colleagues gets mistreated ( sacked, bullied, put on too many standbys, moved, reduced pay, change of roster etc) and there will be NO one to help, no one to agree and fight your corner on, no support of any kind, no renumeration....what happens then? and it will be all too easy for management, as this is EXACTLY why they have you all so divided! Its a real shame!

To ATS

I HAVE read the thread, carefully and many times over, not just this one but ALL the other threads too...and unless I am terribly mistaken, the overiding anti-union concerns seem to be over fear of management reprisals ( ie closing of bases if workers have represention and consequent loss of jobs).
IF that IS the reality, then not fighting this bullying is going to lead to further tears in the future, if this is NOT the reality, then unions and represention will not matter as everyone will be happy and require no help!
Is this right in your opinion???

Ballot
 

Still waiting for the answer to why, if there are 1994 pilots who don't want anything to do with Balpa and only 6 hardcore whingers, are RYR afraid of a ballot?

Can you blame anyone fearing the above?

What's "right" in my opinion is that people (a handful of pilots in this case) who are pro BALPA, should stop being selfish and start thinking seriously about the impact and consequences the BALPA unionization WILL have on other people's lives; CC's, engineers, people on ground duties...

Is it THAT hard to believe it's not just the pilots who will be affected, rosters changed, leave changed, pay changed (you obviously will have to pay up for the "honor" of being a BALPA member) if BALPA gets its way? I thought we were supposed to work as a team... Obviously not the case here!

Well said Tocamak.

tocamak

The company aren't afraid of a ballot: we are having one at EMA, the management welcome it.

90+% don't want BALPA but BALPA won't accept this.

They want a ballot of " the BALPA pilot community": not all of the pilots, just the "BALPA pilot community".

The exact quote is " it would be inappropriate to simply accept your results without further engagement with the BALPA pilot community."

In all of or correspondence with BALPA we simply can't get a straight answer from them: they refuse to accept our ballot results probably because they don't like them.

Is that your concept of democracy and fairness?

We don't want BALPA but they just won't take it on board.

They aren't interested in the pilots welfare: they want to score political points.

That is downright reckless behaviour.

ballot
 

sounds familiar refrain from another equally enlightened part of the world!

More seriously, I would have thought that a ballot would have to be done independent of either party (i.e.through say the electoral reform society) to get a result that could be accepted by all concerned. The ballot would surely have to be open to all possible eligible pilots (not sure of the cross border bit here) and can hardly be done by individual bases; how could STN be a "Balpa"base but EMA not for instance? I still refer to the six whingers amongst the 2000 which would seem to indicate a healthy majority for rejecting Balpa and more recently:-

tocamak, you failed to quote the whole sentence as i wrote it:
Copyright and all that... :ok:

and

tocamak

you would have to ask BALPA why they sent 10 individual letters to FR asking for recogition at the 10 individual UK bases.

My perception is that the whole process is politically driven: perhaps they believe that they might have a slight chance of taking a small base in a fractured ballot rather than attempting to garner support globally.

ATS apologies for being slightly out of context on your quote but what I was still trying to get at is that it seems that the majority, according to you and others, of RYR pilots who would be eligible to vote would reject unionisation as you call it. This being the case why not just have the ballot in a proper manner and then this will be put to bed.

tocamak, as far as i'm concerned, the ballot IS done in a proper manner.
There is a over "i vote for NO BALPA recognition" 90% vote in EMA base.
The votes will be audited by an independent auditor to ensure the legality and truthfulness of them.

Unlike BALPA who out of the blue sends FR letters requesting acknowledgment of union recognition without even consulting and/or informing it's own members!:D:D:D

Incidentally alibaba, your assertions about misleading information are in themselves misleading.

The Employment Act is quite clear: if the 10 per cent test is satisfied the CAC can impose recognition.

If the CAC considers that any 1 of 3 qualifying conditions exist it "may" decide a secret ballot of "union members" be held to establish whether the "union members" want recognition.

By email with personal addresses and with NO independent body such as the CAC or Electoral Reform Society NOT scrutinising. hmm The people involved were actively badgering people for a response. How will that go down in a CAC hearing? Good luck with the independent scrutiniser as my mate down the pub said he would sign off on it for a fiver. ;) “As far as you are concerned”, that’s ok though because you speak for everyone??? :\ It's a rather arrogant stance is it not?

That’s not a ballot, that is out and out intimidation and I think many people realise that. Kim Jong-il will be proud young one. :D

False statements and then intimidatory action of colleagues. The CAC will have a say about it i'm sure but what about your colleagues? It's ok though as you obviously don't give a stuff about them.. I just hope for the person who emailed and their family’s sake that a colleague doesn't pursue legal action against such preposterous outrages.

I haven't responded ATS to your post above because I have been patiently waiting for you to answer tocamak's question. There seems for some bizarre reason that you are unwilling or unable to answer the question directly? Why?

It's a ballot of WORKERS not MEMBERS. Hence the said person contacted everyone who are all WORKERS in the base. Your arguing against yourself now..

if it is, then i learned from the best, i learned from you dear.

I don't give a stuff about my colleagues?? I think it's the other way around my friend; you and your pro BALPA friends still didn't answer my question: who is going to pay for my rent in an European base when i have my house in the Midlands, who is going to do the same for my best pal who is also a CC, who is going to look after the pregnant ladies on G/D as FOR SURE (get a grip dears!) they won't be able to transfer to somewhere else once the base is closed, who is going to pay for the engineers to go abroad and still be able to look after their families day in day out?
And I don't give a stuff about my colleagues???

I apologize, i missed that completely. Would you be ever so kind and tell me what the question was?

Doubt it very much. Unlike others i keep a straight line, repeat myself time and time again until some of the thick skulls around here actually get the reality as it is, not as BALPA pictures it (and the future) to be.

I am just a CC voicing my opinions in what i believed (note the past tense emphasis) to be a grown up debate. There have been threats at my address which police will be more than happy to investigate. What's it going to be next if i keep posting? Wait for me in the car park after lates? Buy a Pay as You Go sim card (which of course is untraceable) and bombard my phone with threatening texts? Throw some bricks through my windows?
Get a reality check, will you? This is not the 1920's. Its a free world in many places and free speech is in power.
Like it or not my pro BALPA friend, i will do whatever it takes to fight against BALPA and it damaging my career and job!

Simple as that.

ATS
Of course not! .....:ugh:
but the point is you should never be in a position where you feel you should make such a statement. Either way, the best of luck to everyone, the dole queue is long, getting longer and there is usually only one hatch open!
Not a fun place to be...;)