Flybe to aquire BA Connect. Crew thread. (No Spotters)-(Part 2)
 

This thread is approaching close to 1000 previous posts and can be researched Here. To keep this topic manageable volume 2 can be continued on this thread.

All gone quiet now.....Due thread move?

Bacon Rashers about to become PORK Scratchin's!
 

This does not look too good for you guys now. I think that the wise have already pulled the Black & Yellow handle early.
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com..._190107_ba.pdf
On a positive note, Easy are actively recruiting you guys to have a major dig at us. I think we will struggle severely this year to meet the commitments planned for the summer schedule. More so than in the previous nightmare years due to lack of crews and unrealistic planning /rostering and recruitment by other airlines elsewhere.

This is now becoming critical as we already have 146 crews trained up to fly the EMB195 but with the delays on 195 production I think we may have jumped the gun.
It will be interesting to see how many 195 trained crews go back on to the 146 until deliveries start again.
Word on the street is that the delays are significant.

The handle
 

Smokie
How do you suggest that the link you have provided to the pension statement means the 'handle' is to be pulled? Certainly it is not good with regard to the pension but..............Rumour has it the deal is to be signed next week!

Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, Eject, Eject, Eject....

(the last "Eject" is an Echo.....echo......cho.....ho.....o ........)

Its getting close for all of you Flybe/Bacon guys. Good Luck.

I know I have asked this before on the previous thread but if there is anyone out there who has any idea what the recruitment situation is at present I would be so grateful for a response. I have previously been retired and I am not flying at the moment but I hope to be on the list for a DEC as soon as possible now that I have a new licence/medical.

For what it is worth, I have been through a merger/buyout before and the rumours and lack of info turn to fear. All will get sorted. It may take time but this is not the first time it has happened. Dooooont worry.

Comments on my 'prospects' welcome. Ta. :ok:

Smokie

Glad to hear it. As a rasher, I view the prospect of working for Flybe with dread only.

Frankly, I'd rather they shut connect and paid us the redundancy money.
Flybe is a bit like going back to Loganair. Fun but ****.

Glad you're having fun tho.

When I pull into the car park for an early- Flybes pushin'

When I reach the car park after a late- Flybe's takin' off.

F*ck that!

btw. 5-2-5-2-5-2, 800 a year here,etc

No one is afraid of hard work at Bacon, but they sure don’t want to return to the dark old days of BRAL and its very worst when every two sector early picked up another two sectors on the day, lates were changed to earlies, earlies were changed to lates at the last minute and with an Ops Director who believed that he owned us 24 hrs a day and he could do whatever he liked with us. It was similar in Logan, but at least it was a small enough operation for the Ops staff to return favours.

Flybe is moving into a different league, its main competitors in the Loco area might work people hard, but at least they provide roster stability. Not only that, BA are working their shorthaul pilots up to the limits, but again, with an extremely stable roster.

If as their attitude suggest, Flybe are to continue with their current daily fire-fighting and bullying into compliance approach to rostering, it is going to be a disaster. We have been there, it’s not clever and it is not sustainable. The Bacon scheduling agreement is constantly rubbished by managers (note; not by those who actually work with it and have an understanding of rostering) yet it did not cause the downfall of Bacon (Evans and his cronies saw to that that). :mad:

I am sure the Bacon reps are willing to concede areas of the agreement which may not fit the Flybe model, but this agreement has been tried and tested. It creates lifestyle stability and it works. That’s why until now, Bacon tended to retain crews, and it probably explains why despite coming from similar backgrounds (Manx/ Bral v Jersey), the current experience level in Bacon is probably three times that in Flybe. JF needs that experience (if he wants to keep his insurance bill down).

Finally, does anyone know whether the Flybe manager who has been calling Bacon pilots and threatening them into compliance been hauled over the coals yet? He damn well should be and if that’s an indication of how Flybe middle managers behave and conduct IR, then we are in for a rocky ride.:ugh: This most recent event has been the last straw for most at Bacon who are trying to decide whether to give it a go or to jump. If JF and his directors are wondering why there are very few Bacon pilots left, he needs to look on his side of the fence very close to home.

Well any rashers deciding to come to Monarch will feel very much at home in that case!

Would that be one of the BACE boys?

Nope, he was from the other side of that fence but he was CitiExpress, another merger not made in heaven but we ALL gave that one a good go - same as we hope to give this one a good go as well

Any news from BALPA?
 

Can anyone tell me what the situation is with BALPA over BACON takeover? Cabin Crew are being ballotted for acceptance, their TU reps seem to have moved Flybe somewhat, the T&C's are similar to those currently operated, though not as good?

OldFlyBoy - lots of info on the BACon Balpa forum, you should have a look

ciderman
 

Heard on the grapevine that Titan need 2 F/o's STN based on the 146, type rated even though web site says they're not recruiting. Might be worth a call to their Ops.

Cider

What are Titan going to do once Connect vanishes?

Seems to me half their work was subbing for us!

Maybe they'll sub for Flybe??:}

At £10,000 to charter and £600 a sector, nice little if you can get it :ok:
Maybe if we had a decent fleet, the airline would still be profitable :D

Don’t know whether BACON pilots have received ballot papers in the post yet? Asking you to vote on accepting or rejecting Flybe terms and conditions.

The ballot papers sent out to Engineering and Cabin Services are a disgrace, worthy of use in a third world dictatorship.

They have no box to cross when making your vote and wording and layout is ambiguous. I quote :

“Please place an X over the appropriate box below to indicate whether you are prepared to accept the new Flybe Engineering Terms contained in the enclosed document.”

Only there is NO box.

So if one puts a cross over the word NO, what could this mean?
YES? Precisely, so if it is not read carefully one easily risks voting the wrong way.
Got the picture?

An addressed envelope is provided. Of course NO STAMP is provided to ensure that the tight and apathetic do not return their papers.

Ballot papers are returned to BACON Towers HR and not to an independent body. Though now we have been assured that the count will be witnessed by the unions.

Seriously eroded T’s and C’s. A rigged ballot? If this is the best BACON and THE Nextgeneration airline can offer. What future do we have with these shysters?

Votes in by 31st Jan. A shame that the results and any of our concerns on this date will be overshadowed by the BA Cabin Crew industrial action

Good luck.

BACON Engineer.

I gather that what is left of BACON management are getting concerned by the mass negativity regarding the ballot of (amongst others) the engineers and the cabin crew. Cabin crew managers at MAN today doing rounds of the crewroom saying there would probably have to be another ballot because "people don't understand the issues and are all voting NO". :) I haven't met one cabin crew or one engineer yet who has voted "yes".
Also pilots will only be balloted when BALPA is ready (and will definitely not be dictated to by the grand fromage).
I particularly liked the bit by Willie Walsh in Times today sprouting forth that of course all his regional services operated by BACON would be unaffected by the cabin crew strike next week. Ha - someone should point out to the press that he has already shafted and given away his BACON saviour.

I voted NO even though its not a word i often use. Well i did once to young Carl - but he deserved it and the slapping. But why should i give my everything for the last 5 years then have it all taken away to fly some scabby airplanes and work harder than ever and have my life messed up again. :(
love Jane

If the deal goes through engineers will have to give up the following:
1 Loss of final salary pension
2 Loss of BA staff travel in retirement (10yrs service)
3 An increase in working week 40hrs from 37.5 (Flybe offer us pay differential of £532 for this while the extra hours actually equate to £2080)
4 A reduction in leave>1.3 days
5 Reduction in hourly rate therefore reducing OT rate
6 No payrise on basic only lump sum for X yrs not compounded
7 After 5 yrs service a bond will still apply
8 First aid pay will cease(£150)
9 Tooling allowance will cease
10 Loss of OT at double time(midnight to 6am)
11 Future redundancy will be statutory not x2
12 Relocation currently £8000 reduces to £5000
13 Loss of BA staff travel after 6 mths
14 Brymon non licensed staff will loose healthcare
15 Death in service from 3x salary to 2x
16 Flybe higher rate pension (10%) only applies to dual licensed Engineers

Hardly surprising then that people aren't rushing forward in droves to accept this deal.

Wake up Mr French or you will lose everything.

From what I can gather, not a lot of our CC will vote yes either. The Union rep is being absolutely fair, answering any questions as clearly as she can but reminding all that she cannot advise how to vote. Above board and honourable.

I hear management are doing the rounds pushing for a yes vote with threats and stuff elsewhere, but then again no management from either BA Connect or Flybe has made any attempt to visit us at all since November. CC managers have sort of said they would come over, but as always cancel at the last minute. I'm not sure Cathy even knows where the Island is.

They are not happy bunnies, and frankly neither are we. I reckon the general concensus coming out of what I hear is that they think calling Willie's bluff and taking the redundency is a viable option for a lot of them.

Oh dear,.....

Deal further delayed until mid-February now according to flybe website.

Ballot Results
 

CC voted against Flybe offer 51%/49%

Engineers voted for Flybe offer 51%/49%

BALPA? Any News?

Rgds GroundBunnie

BALPA? Any News?
Nooo, they are taking this moment of calm to redesign the website/forum access, so it's inaccessible! BUT I CAN SEE IT NOW :-)

Brilliant timing! Especially as Intercom has now been turned off. So no method of communicating!
Who is in favour of a conspiracy theory?! :oh:

now what?
 

:ugh: So BACON cabin crew have voted against, now what happens? I hear on the grape vine that only 51% of crew bothered to vote, so perhaps apathy rules m'lud? Also hear BALPA have accepted a deal???:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: !!

Looks like BALPA have decided that membership feedback from the company forum was a distraction. They will no doubt inform us of pertinent items on a need to know basis!:hmm:

Well the company used to take Intercom down when it was convenient. Love to know who's bright idea it was to do some renovation on the site just when it was so critical to have it

Aplolgies have been made on the site,(finger trouble) and normal service will be resumed a.s.a.p.

Something mucky stirring?
 

Joint statement from flybe/bacon/TGWU/AMICUS re 'failed' cabin crew ballot states " jointly all sides remain firmly committed to the completion of flybe's acquisition of BAConnect and are confident of a positive outcome"

So why bother to ballot if you were going to ignore the result?:=

I get the impression that Flybe management also intend to ignore the result of any pilots ballot.

More fool them.

It was ineviatble at some stage that FLYBE would go back to BA cap in hand to demand more money against the threat of pulling out. That seems to be the game now being played out by Strong. The blame being directed everywhere, Balpa, pension trustees, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all.

Truth is that bit off far more than could be chewed and the FLYBE team way way out of their depth and have pissed off those at BACON who would have been willing to give the company a go. Its all gone on too long and we like less and less what we hear.

Fair to say that most of us couldnt give a damn whether or not the deal goes ahead now and I personally have moved from being pro French and pro the deal to hoping that the whole thing falls over.

BA will then have to make us redundant and deal with us properly instead of chucking us to a bunch of Hillbillies who produce draft documentation containing clauses outlawed by legislation over twenty years ago!!!. (Nice one Mr Fromage!!!!)

Anyone who wants it has alternatives and it seems the biggest miscalculation of Mr French was that he was our only hope. At the moment hed be lucky to get the one third of us who have not already handed our notice in.

BTW 118 Pilots resigned in January. Fact.

Lucky for flybe.

That says it all really.

Third world conditions in a third world company (incidentaly with a very weak balance sheet for those that can read them)

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but shouldn't you be venting your frustrations at the company responsible for the mess, not at the one coming to the rescue?? :ugh:

If you'd rather not join Flybe then why not simply seek employment elsewhere. Don't start bitching at them, they aren't the ones responsible for the situation you find yourself in! :rolleyes:

Rescue:O :O :O

If you want to work for a third world employer............enjoy!

Funny how all of us at BACON seem to have several job offers on a plate from employers who are offering FAR BETTER terms.

Why do you guys in FLYBE enjoy such mediocrity and rubbish???

Cant get a better job anywhere else???? Why dont you apply..............you might surprise yourself......there are plenty out there.

Noifsorbutts said
"Fair to say that most of us couldnt give a damn whether or not the deal goes ahead now"

Since when were you elected to give an opinion for 'most of us'.

Speak for yourself and if you don't like what you are offered, politely decline and go where suits you best. No need for insults or derogatory comments. You will probably find the grass is greener............etc
Regards
Thumper

Thumper,Noiffs is spot on.

The mood in our crewroom has totaly changed and the few remaining who were prepared to take their chances have had enough of all this............

There are good jobs aplenty without being insulted on pay and conditions.

The exodus of pilots at BACon (MAN and BHX especially) is becoming a stampede. It is accelerating at an exponential rate as nobody wants to be the one to switch the lights off.

We are recieving no signals from the FLYBe management encouraging us to stay with the ship - it seems that only those who are very close to retirement or those who see an opportunity to return to their home bases (SOU,BHD,IOM etc) are sticking it out.

If this is not addressed by those that can make a difference, the grand plan is bound to fail. Forget the Embraer 145s flying for another two years - there won't even be enough people to crew a quarter of the fleet by July.