PRECISELY.

Noiffs, if it is " Funny how all of us at BACON seem to have several job offers on a plate from employers who are offering FAR BETTER terms", why don't you take one of them and shut up?

The only reason I can see for your continued attacks is that you are unwilling or unable to do so. I can't think of any other reason for your increasingly bitter rants.

You clearly don't like flybe at all, and I'm sure that flybe neither wants nor needs people with your attitude, so why not take one of the numerous offers from airlines that are desperate to employ you?

And as for balance sheets, for a privately owned company, flybe is doing fine... :rolleyes:

I am just fine Remoak thank you with several options other than FLYBE.

Why dont I do as you would like and shut up?

Because this is an industry forum where we are free to express our views.

Granted freedom of speech is not something your management like..........since their draft documentation included the right to keep records of our sexual preferences and assess suitability for redundancy based on trade union membership and "cooperativeness".

With lunatics like that running the show, what hope is there for any of you?

Glad you think you are doing OK.

Actualy if it were not for the support of the Walker Trust and aircraft manufacturers FLYBE would fall over. The company is massively over borrowed.

To those of you who appear to be in the know - on both sides - and for the benefit of the many ppruners following this affair from the outside, what odds would you place on this deal going through? It seems to me that flyBe never thought this one through. It probably seemed 'a good idea' at the time and I'm sure BA said all the right things to make it appear as the deal of the decade. Mmmm?

SAn x

No one's really in the know. Personally I'd give it 65:35 in favour of it going through.

Also, speaking personally, there are good and bad aspects to both outcomes.

One things for sure- the wheels will be coming off the BACON operation and soon.

Too many guys are voting with their feet.

I'd go the other way - 70:30 in favour of NOT happening. Or if it does happen, WW will have paid many more £'s to JF.
Either way there won't be too many pilots left.

I'd go the other way - 90:10 in favour of IT happening. And if it does happen, WW will have to pay many more £'s to JF.
Either way there won't be too many pilots left.

Prinz Eugen
 

Anyone's guess whichever way it might go! Would anyone hazard a guess as to the state of play on the "square bond". Does JF intend to keep it for Bacon pilots regardless, or is he prepared to modify this particularily obnoxious edict for all his potentially rare and valuable Bacon "recruits" if there are still any out there!

What can he bond us on? Dash rating is common and the 145s are off as well, so retraining due to loss of aircraft type precludes a bond

BOS
Can u not sleep?
04:29 :)

This "done deal" is dragging on for much longer than initially proposed.seems to me that there are far too many problems emerging to prevent the smooth integration of these 2 totally different operations.as always it needs someone to make a decision and let all concerned know what the future holds,otherwise those that can leave for pastures new will do so.the crewing problems at Bacon will soon become unmanageable and the operation will go downhill rapidly.for what it's worth,the longer this remains unresolved,the less likely i feel,the merger will take place.what state will bacon be in when this senario is enacted,only time will tell.

As a Connect Engineer at MAN i say the quicker the better that FlyMayBe pull, out, just like you drivers we feel totally let down and exploited, let BA do the right thing and make us redundant, then if "I" choose to join FlyMayBe at least it will be "MY" choice, (but i won't be joining!) and i won't have been sold down the river, unbelievably some engineering staff voted yes for the horendous T + C's being forced upon us, let me go with some money and some dignity!!!

I heard a Rumour the other day that some of the E145's were going off to be repainted in Flybe colours, if true they must be keeping them short to medium term (perhaps to cover for the delay of the E195)

Question is; will there be any 145 pilots around to fly them? Reading this I fear the worst for that idea!!

Thump - had just got up, now I'm off to bed, night night :}

Snigs
Depends on the definition of short to medium term. Some of the 145's are due to be around until 2009.

But remember that in FlyBacon tomorrow is short term, next week is medium term and next month is long term.

Skianyn; I was always led to believe that tomorrow never comes..... Hang on a sec...... there's someone at the door. It must be the four horsemen of the appocalypse!........The end is nigh....7,6,5,4,......
If this deal goes through, it may not be the end of the world as we know it, but you could certainly see it from here!

I have heard it from the proverbial horses mouth at Flybe, that the last Barbie won't leave til 2010. A date that can only slip one way.

Also there are a lot of flights uncovered this week. Are we recruiting on the 145- if not why not?

If Bacon is recruiting, the reason for the shortfall in new joiners could be that Rats do not join sinking ships.

There are plenty of wannabe rats out there who would love to join the 'sinking ship'

Any BACON peeps managed to get on the BACON BALPA forum yet?

The front page has been re-instated, but no forum yet (for me at least).

The vacuum seems to be getting more absolute by the day - no Intercom and now this.........

BOSD - how about resurrecting the PPRUNE forum?

Cheers,

osbo

the flybe deal can be looked at from a culinary point of view

where does bacon come from...... a dead or dying pig........ apt
pigs aso give you pork which as we know goes off easily.... apt
off pork can give you the S***...................................... apt

to conclude the stumbling block in the whole recipy is that some dodgey pork has managed to give all those involved a dose of the runs which only a bright orange pill will cure

No luck with the BALPA forum. Just as discussions were become more heated with regard to the RJ issue. Amazing isn't it, how existing type rated BACON pilots can be rejected in favour of 200 hr wundekinde from Jerez and Oxford.

Of course the cynical among us will point out that they cost half as much as existing BACON jet F/o's. In addition they are so grateful for a job, they'll think that the astronaut and his brother in law are the greatest people who ever lived, rather than the brain dead clusterf**ks we know them to be!

Still its good to see that BALPA are on case. NOT!

Grapevine Stuff
 

Re the whole Cityflyer stuff, I heard today that there are concerns that only 4 exBAR/BACON ops folk have joined the new outfit's ops team, and 3 of those are crew controllers with no ops managing experience? Also no-one from Nav Services is on board and some key IT project and scheduling folk have also declined the 10 pieces of silver that the handsome one and his brother in law have offered.

But I'm sure the CAA are happy this is a valid operation................?

OLDFLYBOY

I did try and raise awareness of that very issue a while ago. See my post on the previous thread, reproduced below:

Mike Mercury

Chances of BACON #2 succeeding? Zero to nil I'd say. We know all about the Flight Ops people - and seriously the best of luck to NG, but even he admits what he's up against. Have you considered the ground staff in your calculations? Have you noticed how the announcement of the appointments keeps being put off? Could it possibly be that they are desperate and noone wants to work with them any more? Never has the expression 'Once bitten, twice shy,' been more apposite. If that is your choice one can really only wish you the best of luck. I am rather afraid that your option #2 is the most likely: in a couple of years your colleagues at LHR simply say, 'Thanks for keeping the slots warm, boys, see ya later!'


Noone seemed interested at the time, but maybe there is a growing awareness that airlines need more bodies than just those at the pointy end!

Just one probable correction to what you posted: I don't believe that the 10 pieces of silver have been offered - or even one!

What's more the pressure exerted on certain ex-BAR OPS people to be seconded to MAN has, I believe been resisted. Not to worry, they'll have an eminent Technical Services Manager. Flight plans? Pah! Who needs 'em!

hearts and minds
 

Gwynn,

Agree with your post which I had overlooked. I believe its a case of people with no 'people skills' attempting to bulldose this through. Its like " you don't have jobs so you should be grateful for the opportunity"

Talk about not winning hearts and minds! Apparantly the words "you have chosen the losing side" have been said to a manager who elected not to join! Hows that for arrogance!

And you are right, perhaps if they had dipped into the money pot they may have had a better response from the ops folk, rather than assuming they would be happy with crumbs from the table.

The whole thing is so sad, with a little thought and understanding, not to mention a little thing called 'communication' things may have been different.

Sadder is the fact that WW failed to see what a shower they all were in failing to make BAR/Citiexpress/Bacon a success and gave the same guys another toy to break.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Nevertheless lets all hope some common sense will prevail and that the thing may stagger into life. Wonder what Barbara Cassani is doing now, perhaps Willie should give her a call!!

Not part of the core business....
 

As stated by WW " domestic and regional services do not form part of our core business"

Strange then that BA mainline are going to operate LGWNQY once a day from 26Mar.....

I guess ASW won't be happy, especially as BA handle them at LGW

Rgds GB :confused:

BACON BALPA website
 

BACON BALPA website seems to be up & running again

Re Newquay

A little birdie told me, and this really is a rumour, that Plymouth airfield is to redeveloped for housing and Southwest is to close, partly due PLH shutting.

Prolly BS tho'.;)

Thats bollox.......you fool......and its a crap rumour too!!!

The only airline closing round here is BACON! Live with it!........Move on!:*

Hey Longchop

Don't shoot the messenger!

This is Pprune is it not?:rolleyes:

Oldflyboy

Thanks for taking that post in the spirit in which it was meant. I didn't really expect you to either read or memorise all the 93 (or so) pages of the previous thread!

The one word which you use really sums it up: 'Arrogance.' The arrogance is absolutely unbelievable, but probably understandable in that it has been built up to its current level by being surrounded by 'Yes men' (people? persons?) in their ivory tower.

As you say, surely if WW is astute as claimed, why give them another train set?

Maybe they've been given another train set because they achieved exactly what they were mean't to!

update from Evans today:
 

OFT has today ruled acquisition of BAConnect by Flybe to be valid so can go ahead according to 'Airmail' sent to BACON staff by David Evans today.:D

However STILL no word according to my pilot colleagues at BACON today about deal for them.:=

One itty bitty teensy weensy little question...............

Who is going to fly Jimbos plane set now that he has pissed off all the Rashers who are employable elswhere?

I know..........how about starting a BIG RECRUITMENT campaign?!!!!!

"COME AND JOIN FLYBE THE CR%P PAY AND CONDITIONS AIRLINE":} :} :}

Jim doesn't care about any of his staff. He never has and never will.

I believe he has a great business plan that could work. The problem is he has a record of of treating his staff with total disrespect and even admits that he doesn't have the time of day for pilots. (Probably because he failed his PPL).

Second problem is the Q400. It has propellers. Propellers are for boats. Period. Ask a jet jockey if he would fly a prop and I bet we all know the answer. Not even for more money. Most 737 skippers earn in excess of £90,000. How about if Big Jim offered £100,000 for a Q400? I certainly wouldn't. So £40,000 for a Prop aircraft. I would rather drive trains. Their faster and you get paid more

From Hudson bay...
Second problem is the Q400. It has propellers. Propellers are for boats. Period. Ask a jet jockey if he would fly a prop and I bet we all know the answer. Not even for more money. Most 737 skippers earn in excess of £90,000. How about if Big Jim offered £100,000 for a Q400? I certainly wouldn't. So £40,000 for a Prop aircraft. I would rather drive trains. Their faster and you get paid more


What did you learn to fly in then?... a BOAT???
Stop making a clown of yourself with these statements.

Actually, many of us don't care what we fly so long as the pay is the same (which it will be) and we get more time at home (which we will). Those who think flying a prop is any less worthy than flying a jet are obviously dimensionally challenged below the belt.

Re todays cancellations - that was due to snow, not crew shortages ;) .

Perfectly reasonable post Hudson.

The fact is no experienced Rasher would choose to work for FLYBE unless he has some personal base/lifestyle issue.

So apart from the few who choose it for said reason, what you will have left are the Orange and other rejects.........

Its already a bottom fishing airline operating uncomfortable and unappealing equipment............and now employing those by and large that nobody else wants.

I cant wait to see the spin thrown out in the fortchoming recruiting drive.

You cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I dont think Jim is half as clever as some of you make out. If he was, then why is he relying on ex BACON managers whose skills :E we are very aware of? He has set himself totaly unrealistic objectives and timescales to achieve them

Ghengis ... have I missed something?

BACon operate BAe146/RJ, Dash 8 and Emb145
Flybe BAe146, Dash 8 and Emb195

How on earth are Flybe aircraft any more uncomfortable to the BACon aircraft? Emb145 you have to be 5 foot to be able to stand in the 'off-centre' aisle, the 146 is the same as ours, and the dash 8 is the same as ours! Flybe seat pitch is more generous than both Easy and Ryanair, and if you haven't seen the inside of the 195, you really should next time its on the ground where you are - its an amazingly comfortable and well thought out cabin for passengers.

So wind your neck in and stop spouting the brown stuff that comes out the wrong end of a bull! All this propellers are for boats nonsense - do you guys not read Flight mag etc? Not seen P&W and RR plans for 'exposed fan' engines? Will that make those aircraft third class? I don't think so. Every dash pilot in the world apologises to you for flying a highly fuel-efficient aircraft, we are sorry and not worthy! And we apologise that we do not have the seniority or desire to move onto a SUPER jet like the 145 or 146.

BTW have you heard that dash co-pilots are only second officers not first officers? :ugh:

Yes Bacon fly Dash. All 7 of them. With reasonably fast career progression onto one of the (41 jets in total) jet fleets (very few Dash FO's do more than eighteen months, max two years on props before getting a jet position). And even the Dash skippers have a career expectation of getting a jet command in a reasonable time frame.
What Flybe offers is (by start of 2010, if things go to plan) the prospect of 54 props and 15 jets (if the latter ever get delivered?) and virtually zero career expectation of moving from prop to jet. Largely dead mans shoes - some of us have seen this situation before when BRAL/Manx had lots of props and just a few jets.
Flybe also offers the expectation of not having stable rosters (I have talked to some of the recent rashers that came to Flybe from SOU - they cannot make any lifestyle plans and they are already well hacked off by the endless roster disruption). Bacon has up to now offered good lifestyle protection with our scheduling agreement (and no, that is not the reason for Bacon losing money).
What Ghengis and Hudson Bay say above is largely correct - the only people who will come across are those who have thus far failed to find alternative employment, else have personal base issues. And as Hudson said money is not the solution - lifestyle is worth far more - and the hard evidence at present is that JF has failed to realise this.

PS Shagtastic - I think you have misinterpreted what Ghengis said. I don't think he is talking about existing Flybe pilots - more the fact that (excepting those with personal basing issues) only those Bacon pilots who have been unable to find alternative employment will be left to join Flybe. Perhaps the lesser able, or perhaps the lesser able to get through interviews (there is a difference!).