Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Captain on ATR or SFO on Boeing 737?

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Captain on ATR or SFO on Boeing 737?

Old 2nd Dec 2023, 19:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: India
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Captain on ATR or SFO on Boeing 737?

Hi, I have 3000hours of experience on light turboprop and now at a point of career transition. I've been offered captian on ATR on a start up airlines and another LCC is offering SFO which will consider me for command upgrade after 500 hours of flying. I'm in a dilemma weather to collect PIC hours on ATR (3 years bond) and post that transit directly to Boeing 737 as a transition captian or Fly for about one/two year as SFO with bit less pay (financially i don't have any liabilities as such) and get command upgrade on 737?
flying_fish is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 01:18
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: newbury
Posts: 75
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Captain on ATR may be nice now but Iím not sure itís expandable ? In other words would any company offer DEC to an ATR capt to something more useful ? I doubt it , itís a dead end - capt or not .

Get the Boeing
Prob30Tempo TSRA is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 03:28
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Up in the air.
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quite difficult to make the "upgrade" from Capt in ATR to Capt in a medium jet. There's no technical difficulty per se (some people will say the speed of events, but the operational environment is usually way less challenging), however you will find such a career switch quite difficult, most likely will need to fly the jet as FO for AT LEAST another 500h even after your PIC time in the ATR.

Thus go for the jet, just remember that promises are dreams unless they're written down. But at least if you don't get the upgrade, you will have a type and hours on jet to make easier jumping to another company.
EC-KIY is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 06:49
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lonely planet
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flying_fish
Hi, I have 3000hours of experience on light turboprop and now at a point of career transition. I've been offered captian on ATR on a start up airlines and another LCC is offering SFO which will consider me for command upgrade after 500 hours of flying. I'm in a dilemma weather to collect PIC hours on ATR (3 years bond) and post that transit directly to Boeing 737 as a transition captian or Fly for about one/two year as SFO with bit less pay (financially i don't have any liabilities as such) and get command upgrade on 737?
I speak from experience here, no employer respects turbo prop time - despite it being an arguably a harder aircraft to operate; with 737 time - it just opens doors, with 500 on type your can apply for other companies; with a couple of thousand on type you can apply to major carriers. Just go jet ASAP don't waste your time on turbo prop.
Oddball77 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 08:40
  #5 (permalink)  
n77
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: moved again
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Go for jet.
The older you get the more difficult is to get rid of props. I did that mistake and wasted my career time LHS on ATR. I was lucky enough to finally get to LHS heavy metal WB. But it took me almost 2 decades to be where I wanted.
cheers
n77 is online now  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 12:37
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: MXP
Posts: 1,255
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Go for the Boeing and upgrade on Jet.
a350pilots is online now  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 12:53
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NAT-HLA
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I can only second the posts made above. Got out of the TP game just in time. Some colleagues felt cushy, didn't make the change when i did, for various reasons: giving up left seat, sched and just their general comfort. I've been in the left seat on the bus for about a decade now. Fmr colleagues are still bashing around in wx and icing in a TP making less than half i do. Go figure.
A321drvr is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 14:47
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ortac
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TP time is rubbish for career progression in Europe, doesnít matter how many hours youíve got on it.
ICEHOUSES is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2023, 15:34
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unless you want to spend your career flying props - and I'm not knocking it - go for the SFO 737. 'Better be at the bottom of a ladder you want to climb, than half way up one that you dont...'
clvf88 is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2023, 03:41
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I find it really bizare that prop time isn't as highly regarded as jet time. If it was my airline I would happily take on TP guys.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2023, 05:23
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NAT-HLA
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Couldn't agree more. I remember at some point having a chat with someone from HR who was at the time vetting applications before presenting them for the team responsible for calling individuals for interviews. When i showed her a photo of the aircraft (Saab 340) i flew before the bus she proudly said, oh, it's like a cessna! Need to say more?
A321drvr is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2023, 10:43
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,449
Received 73 Likes on 40 Posts
......someone from HR who was at the time vetting applications......



That says it all to me. HR in my experience often don't seem to have much idea about what abilities and experiences make a good pilot. Or whether the abilities and experience of a turbo-prop pilot are worth having in order to fly a jet - (of course they are, very much so). As well as the stupid psychometric tests which bear very little relation to the abilities required to fly big jets, they ask you to write about your feelings and motivations etc,


I once happened to see my own application for a certain operator of light blue passenger jets. It had been scribbled on by HR, and where I had written that '....freight operations [which I had flown for a season] was a strangely empty experience without passengers.....', HR had written "nice !", and they meant it ! In other words they seemed to be concentrating more on how applicants wrote about flying than actually doing the flying, which I found bizarre in a system that is supposedly choosing the best and most experienced pilots. I had a similar experience with a significant Gatwick based long-haul jet airline, during initial phone call vetting. "How did I feel about xyz", etc.


Would you employ a person who can write a good essay about flying, or a pilot who can actually fly and has relevant experience ? I think HR would choose the former.


As far as the OP's dilemma; I went for the jet RHS, but then got held back when two airlines I worked for went out of business, because I had no LHS PIC time when I was applying for new jobs. But I would imagine that jet time in whichever seat would be more transferrable than turbo-prop LHS time, while you have these sort of non technical HR staff vetting applications - people who think that small turbo-props must be simple and easy to fly compared to the impressive big shiny jets.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2023, 17:39
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: world
Posts: 46
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Uplinker
That says it all to me. HR in my experience often don't seem to have much idea about what abilities and experiences make a good pilot.

to be fair, does HR know anything about anything?

apart of jokes, i agree, they are stuck in a standard type of questions and have no background about aviation most of the times and have a CPT there for the technical interview. i would say in a perfect world we could change the "whats your biggers achievement?" questioning with some more related to aviation(or related to whatever field they are hiring for) like "whats a flight you are most proud of?" looks similar as its a pride and notice how a pilot think about objectives or his life and all that HR fluff but is worded to at least make sense in our world
spiffolo is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2023, 08:49
  #14 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Schloss Neuschwanstein
Posts: 4,203
Likes: 0
Received 47 Likes on 16 Posts
I am a former turbo prop training captain who, many years ago, faced exactly the same dilemma. I had the choice at the time of going on a Boeing 737 or an Airbus A320 as an FO. After a lot of heart-searching, I took the Airbus. Anyway, the rest is history. I have now been an Airbus training captain for many years.

Basically, I can only second and third all the comments made here. However unfair it may be, no one cares about turboprop time Ė it is essentially time in the lay by of your career. Without a Boeing or an Airbus on your licence, you are extremely vulnerable to the ups and downs of life. It is terrible to say this, but youíre basically considered a pilot who has not quite made it. You will find, much to your horror, that a young guy or girl with 300 hours medium jet time, and 500 hours total time, will be considered way more valuable than you will be with 10,000 hours on turboprops. That is just the way the system works. Get out now and do not look back!
Count of Monte Bisto is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2023, 09:47
  #15 (permalink)  
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: TOD
Posts: 2,008
Received 19 Likes on 6 Posts
Having done both and having been through two big down cycles in the industry - jet, jet, jet all day long!

Turboprops are too niche and very few turboprop operating regional carriers have deep enough pockets to comfortably weather big economic storms. Donít get me wrong - TP skipper is some of the most fun flying I have done but in terms of making a sensible career decision it has to be SFO on the jet. The only downside for you is that it is a 737 and not an Airbus .
speedrestriction is online now  
Old 12th Dec 2023, 12:31
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blue sky
Posts: 259
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Not sure if this group can be more clear... If you want left seat high performance commercial jet, the closest/quickest deal is the right seat. It's not about right/wrong, it's about your life and getting your goals done.

However, to counter speedrestriction 's remark, the upside of the 737 is that everything else you pass in your career will be a lot easier to handle. It's front seat class to the left seat, and anything else that will cross your path afterwards will only make you bored with aviation. On Airbus they installed a table to eat and watch movies. Boeing installed an in-house game called Pilot Response EICAS.
BraceBrace is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2023, 19:48
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Meteorology Avenue
Age: 44
Posts: 189
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't listen to the naysayers and take ATR PIC for 3 years (at least 1000h) and then DEC to B737, as it could be an option you mentioned in your post. In India aviation market is different from Europe...
maximus610 is online now  
Old 12th Dec 2023, 21:00
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: newbury
Posts: 75
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Are they in India or Europe or elsewhere ?
That plan wouldnít work in Europe
Prob30Tempo TSRA is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2023, 00:25
  #19 (permalink)  
ZFT
N4790P
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 73
Posts: 2,265
Received 10 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Prob30Tempo TSRA
Are they in India or Europe or elsewhere ?
That plan wouldnít work in Europe
This is very much a regional issue. Within Asia many operators start on ATRs and move up to Airbus.
In Europe, unusual.
ZFT is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.