RYANAIR pilots, please share your thoughts/ experience
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 389
Likes: 134
From: N/A
I’m sorry but have you read the detail of what I’ve said?
I was quite clear… post CPL / APS MCC training should and technically legally is the employers responsibility. Especially OCC and LIFUS… where you are operating to specific company SOPs … recruiting and charging employees with the suggestion you’re initially a consumer…. even though you’re unlikely to be so unless the type rating is generic … and not paying them for part or all of that period amounts to illegal deductions from wages. For instance paying 30k for a type rating … then being paid £1400 per month on the line for the first 6-12 months… amounts to likely minimum wage violations even if you can’t see it in the payslips themselves.
You say there’s no requirement to saddle yourself with debt to become a pilot… I don’t follow… how else does one attain a CPL if not taking on 1000s in debt? I also don’t follow your logic… if avoiding debt was the driver of all careers… we wouldn’t have many skilled positions at all would we? We as a society decided to force debt on the aspirational to commodify it … now it’s so normalised the view is not “the world needs pilots / Drs etc” but you don’t have to choose to become one 🤦♂️ — when did we collectively decide to become serfs again?
Virtually every airline recruiting pays for the type rating onwards… as its employer specific and hard to extract the OCC components. Why do we collectively allow Ryanair the uncompetitive advantage… of not adhering to the rules all other employers seem to abide by? And apparently we’ve done it that long… it’s normalised to the point where it’s seen as normal for a pilot to take on an additional 30k + of debt after CPL / ATPLs and not be paid through training and then be underpaid… when initially on the line flying passengers.
It’s odd that people defend a company for making people’s lives actively worse… likely breaching legal obligations and declaring it a consequence of supply and demand…solely for pilot recruitment… while simultaneously ignoring that this very practice has created an un-competitive advantage in the market place for that very airline which is then defended illogically as exploiting the “fair” market 😂😂.
I recommend reading the guardian article and Ghent study. This isn’t as simple as supply and demand and the view that Ryanair can simply do whatever they want and abuse people.
I was quite clear… post CPL / APS MCC training should and technically legally is the employers responsibility. Especially OCC and LIFUS… where you are operating to specific company SOPs … recruiting and charging employees with the suggestion you’re initially a consumer…. even though you’re unlikely to be so unless the type rating is generic … and not paying them for part or all of that period amounts to illegal deductions from wages. For instance paying 30k for a type rating … then being paid £1400 per month on the line for the first 6-12 months… amounts to likely minimum wage violations even if you can’t see it in the payslips themselves.
You say there’s no requirement to saddle yourself with debt to become a pilot… I don’t follow… how else does one attain a CPL if not taking on 1000s in debt? I also don’t follow your logic… if avoiding debt was the driver of all careers… we wouldn’t have many skilled positions at all would we? We as a society decided to force debt on the aspirational to commodify it … now it’s so normalised the view is not “the world needs pilots / Drs etc” but you don’t have to choose to become one 🤦♂️ — when did we collectively decide to become serfs again?
Virtually every airline recruiting pays for the type rating onwards… as its employer specific and hard to extract the OCC components. Why do we collectively allow Ryanair the uncompetitive advantage… of not adhering to the rules all other employers seem to abide by? And apparently we’ve done it that long… it’s normalised to the point where it’s seen as normal for a pilot to take on an additional 30k + of debt after CPL / ATPLs and not be paid through training and then be underpaid… when initially on the line flying passengers.
It’s odd that people defend a company for making people’s lives actively worse… likely breaching legal obligations and declaring it a consequence of supply and demand…solely for pilot recruitment… while simultaneously ignoring that this very practice has created an un-competitive advantage in the market place for that very airline which is then defended illogically as exploiting the “fair” market 😂😂.
I recommend reading the guardian article and Ghent study. This isn’t as simple as supply and demand and the view that Ryanair can simply do whatever they want and abuse people.
You may also not know that not every country in the EU has a minimum wage.
Joined: Oct 2025
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 11
Likes: 2
From: FL410
Your experience in ryanair depends 99.9% on the base you get.
From personnel experience I am very happy here, I'm based where I want, I like the people I work with, rooster is amazing.
I'm based in a relatively big base so we have plenty of routes.
A lot of people here speak about terrifying experiences with management and I can't relate with any of them, everyone has been very sensible with me, never got asked any questions regarding fuel, GA or decision in general.
There are a few things that could be better? Yes 100%, but unionization is a fairly new in the company and it takes many years to be on par with other companies.
One thing that I adore about this companies is opportunities (SFI,TRI,TRE,BC,BTRE etc etc etc) and transparency in those said opportunities, anyone can be anything as long as they work for it.
From personnel experience I am very happy here, I'm based where I want, I like the people I work with, rooster is amazing.
I'm based in a relatively big base so we have plenty of routes.
A lot of people here speak about terrifying experiences with management and I can't relate with any of them, everyone has been very sensible with me, never got asked any questions regarding fuel, GA or decision in general.
There are a few things that could be better? Yes 100%, but unionization is a fairly new in the company and it takes many years to be on par with other companies.
One thing that I adore about this companies is opportunities (SFI,TRI,TRE,BC,BTRE etc etc etc) and transparency in those said opportunities, anyone can be anything as long as they work for it.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 182
Likes: 29
From: where I lay my hat
Good advice. Small bases can be heaven, but are very dependent on the base captain, so if you get some micro managing Monday morning quarterback, it can be dispiriting. All the big bases are very enjoyable and if you keep your head down and don't do anything stupid, you'll never see the BC or management, though you will work harder and it's kinda annoying the unions pushed for pay to be the same at the quiet and very low cost of living bases, as the very expensive, hard working big bases. It is also now much worse than it used to be for direct entry pilots, who now are in effect bottom priority for a base transfer for about 5 years after joining. Seniority is done the same as a flag carrier (fair enough, I suppose - just the way it is), but of course, one doesn't need to change base in a flag carrier, so I wouldn't join on a base which I wasnt happy with, in the hope of transferring, because you will wait an eternity. It looks like direct entry recruitment may start sooner than earlier estimates.
Nonetheless, Ryanair is the only company where I've really enjoyed going to work, and the average standard of ones colleagues is generally really impressive, so for me, that, and the roster, (almost?) makes up for the ~5-10% deficit on pay compared to EJ etc. (I say almost, because that gap is widening, and there are increasingly interesting and very well paid/low taxed expat jobs outside Europe).
Nonetheless, Ryanair is the only company where I've really enjoyed going to work, and the average standard of ones colleagues is generally really impressive, so for me, that, and the roster, (almost?) makes up for the ~5-10% deficit on pay compared to EJ etc. (I say almost, because that gap is widening, and there are increasingly interesting and very well paid/low taxed expat jobs outside Europe).
Last edited by midnight cruiser; 6th November 2025 at 07:39.
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: portugal
Your experience in ryanair depends 99.9% on the base you get.
From personnel experience I am very happy here, I'm based where I want, I like the people I work with, rooster is amazing.
I'm based in a relatively big base so we have plenty of routes.
A lot of people here speak about terrifying experiences with management and I can't relate with any of them, everyone has been very sensible with me, never got asked any questions regarding fuel, GA or decision in general.
There are a few things that could be better? Yes 100%, but unionization is a fairly new in the company and it takes many years to be on par with other companies.
One thing that I adore about this companies is opportunities (SFI,TRI,TRE,BC,BTRE etc etc etc) and transparency in those said opportunities, anyone can be anything as long as they work for it.
From personnel experience I am very happy here, I'm based where I want, I like the people I work with, rooster is amazing.
I'm based in a relatively big base so we have plenty of routes.
A lot of people here speak about terrifying experiences with management and I can't relate with any of them, everyone has been very sensible with me, never got asked any questions regarding fuel, GA or decision in general.
There are a few things that could be better? Yes 100%, but unionization is a fairly new in the company and it takes many years to be on par with other companies.
One thing that I adore about this companies is opportunities (SFI,TRI,TRE,BC,BTRE etc etc etc) and transparency in those said opportunities, anyone can be anything as long as they work for it.
100% to this. I am FO for RYR for almost 3 years, at the base I want, have zero problem with the operation,management, rosters, training is at very high standards from sim to fire training. Salary is amazing. Really, cannot have anything bad to say.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,325
Likes: 432
From: In your head.
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 118
Likes: 7
From: italy
I believe you're misrepresenting the reality of airline type rating costs. In practice, most airlines require pilots to cover the cost of type ratings - either through upfront payments or salary deductions. Your claims about line training salaries are also inaccurate. While the basic salary may start at the figure you mentioned, you failed to include SBH (Sector-Based Hours) pay, which is a significant component of total compensation. Omitting this detail gives a misleading impression and undermines the accuracy of your argument.
so yes, it’s a f shame.
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 94
Likes: 11
From: Ireland
Good advice. Small bases can be heaven, but are very dependent on the base captain, so if you get some micro managing Monday morning quarterback, it can be dispiriting. All the big bases are very enjoyable and if you keep your head down and don't do anything stupid, you'll never see the BC or management, though you will work harder and it's kinda annoying the unions pushed for pay to be the same at the quiet and very low cost of living bases, as the very expensive, hard working big bases. It is also now much worse than it used to be for direct entry pilots, who now are in effect bottom priority for a base transfer for about 5 years after joining. Seniority is done the same as a flag carrier (fair enough, I suppose - just the way it is), but of course, one doesn't need to change base in a flag carrier, so I wouldn't join on a base which I wasnt happy with, in the hope of transferring, because you will wait an eternity. It looks like direct entry recruitment may start sooner than earlier estimates.
Nonetheless, Ryanair is the only company where I've really enjoyed going to work, and the average standard of ones colleagues is generally really impressive, so for me, that, and the roster, (almost?) makes up for the ~5-10% deficit on pay compared to EJ etc. (I say almost, because that gap is widening, and there are increasingly interesting and very well paid/low taxed expat jobs outside Europe).
Nonetheless, Ryanair is the only company where I've really enjoyed going to work, and the average standard of ones colleagues is generally really impressive, so for me, that, and the roster, (almost?) makes up for the ~5-10% deficit on pay compared to EJ etc. (I say almost, because that gap is widening, and there are increasingly interesting and very well paid/low taxed expat jobs outside Europe).
As with everything in life, there are a lot of factors to take into account.
There's no doubt (in the UK at least) pilots at big bases work harder than pilots in smaller bases. Pilots at very seasonal ones, like East Mids or Prestwick, are basically part timers in winter. Given the current pay deal, it's actually rather unfair as their take home compared to colleagues at Stansted or Manchester is fairly comparable. But it's what the union wanted at the end of the day.
Basing is always a challenge. Being based where you want to be based is always going to make people happier. Commuting around the network each weekend is always going to get tiring eventually. That's just a fact of life, but these things are not exactly kept secret.
I’m sorry but have you read the detail of what I’ve said?
I was quite clear… post CPL / APS MCC training should and technically legally is the employers responsibility. Especially OCC and LIFUS… where you are operating to specific company SOPs … recruiting and charging employees with the suggestion you’re initially a consumer…. even though you’re unlikely to be so unless the type rating is generic … and not paying them for part or all of that period amounts to illegal deductions from wages. For instance paying 30k for a type rating … then being paid £1400 per month on the line for the first 6-12 months… amounts to likely minimum wage violations even if you can’t see it in the payslips themselves.
You say there’s no requirement to saddle yourself with debt to become a pilot… I don’t follow… how else does one attain a CPL if not taking on 1000s in debt? I also don’t follow your logic… if avoiding debt was the driver of all careers… we wouldn’t have many skilled positions at all would we? We as a society decided to force debt on the aspirational to commodify it … now it’s so normalised the view is not “the world needs pilots / Drs etc” but you don’t have to choose to become one 🤦♂️ — when did we collectively decide to become serfs again?
Virtually every airline recruiting pays for the type rating onwards… as its employer specific and hard to extract the OCC components. Why do we collectively allow Ryanair the uncompetitive advantage… of not adhering to the rules all other employers seem to abide by? And apparently we’ve done it that long… it’s normalised to the point where it’s seen as normal for a pilot to take on an additional 30k + of debt after CPL / ATPLs and not be paid through training and then be underpaid… when initially on the line flying passengers.
It’s odd that people defend a company for making people’s lives actively worse… likely breaching legal obligations and declaring it a consequence of supply and demand…solely for pilot recruitment… while simultaneously ignoring that this very practice has created an un-competitive advantage in the market place for that very airline which is then defended illogically as exploiting the “fair” market 😂😂.
I recommend reading the guardian article and Ghent study. This isn’t as simple as supply and demand and the view that Ryanair can simply do whatever they want and abuse people.
I was quite clear… post CPL / APS MCC training should and technically legally is the employers responsibility. Especially OCC and LIFUS… where you are operating to specific company SOPs … recruiting and charging employees with the suggestion you’re initially a consumer…. even though you’re unlikely to be so unless the type rating is generic … and not paying them for part or all of that period amounts to illegal deductions from wages. For instance paying 30k for a type rating … then being paid £1400 per month on the line for the first 6-12 months… amounts to likely minimum wage violations even if you can’t see it in the payslips themselves.
You say there’s no requirement to saddle yourself with debt to become a pilot… I don’t follow… how else does one attain a CPL if not taking on 1000s in debt? I also don’t follow your logic… if avoiding debt was the driver of all careers… we wouldn’t have many skilled positions at all would we? We as a society decided to force debt on the aspirational to commodify it … now it’s so normalised the view is not “the world needs pilots / Drs etc” but you don’t have to choose to become one 🤦♂️ — when did we collectively decide to become serfs again?
Virtually every airline recruiting pays for the type rating onwards… as its employer specific and hard to extract the OCC components. Why do we collectively allow Ryanair the uncompetitive advantage… of not adhering to the rules all other employers seem to abide by? And apparently we’ve done it that long… it’s normalised to the point where it’s seen as normal for a pilot to take on an additional 30k + of debt after CPL / ATPLs and not be paid through training and then be underpaid… when initially on the line flying passengers.
It’s odd that people defend a company for making people’s lives actively worse… likely breaching legal obligations and declaring it a consequence of supply and demand…solely for pilot recruitment… while simultaneously ignoring that this very practice has created an un-competitive advantage in the market place for that very airline which is then defended illogically as exploiting the “fair” market 😂😂.
I recommend reading the guardian article and Ghent study. This isn’t as simple as supply and demand and the view that Ryanair can simply do whatever they want and abuse people.
easyjet charges for training.
Wizz essentially gives an interest free loan and claws it back.
There's still lots of pay to fly still in operation too.
Obviously, I am sure all of us would like the airlines to pay for all of this with a short bond, but to say Ryanair is out of line or has an uncompetitive advantage is just wrong.
And on debt, I started my airline career with zero debt and had very little support from my family. It's called working and saving. More than possible if you put a bit of effort in and manage your training funds carefully.
Of course, it's not high school to one of the 'glamorous' six-figure flight schools, but life isn't always easy. There are people who have it a lot worse.
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 389
Likes: 134
From: N/A
Note that cadets stay on this salary until they are in their permanent base. Until then, they fly at their training base on the training salary. I know of one guy who didn't get his base until 7 months post line check pass. It's not unheard of for people to have 500 hours on type and still be at their training base on the training salary. So it's very much not '6 months max'. OTOH I know of people who've been sent to their permanent base within two months.
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Portugal
Does anyone know if its possible to get DAC after the line training with Buzz? Or even if we get a permanent base with Buzz, can we change to DAC after? Unfortunately, every type rating class that finished this year is getting sent to Buzz for the line.
Joined: Apr 2012
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 389
Likes: 134
From: N/A
Avoid Buzz at all costs if you can. With your seniority it will take you years to get a transfer to a non-Buzz base.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 178
Likes: 3
From: Between 0 and 41000 ft
And to answer the original question, you need a difference's course only, at the moment, if you change AOC.
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Portugal
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 48
Likes: 51
From: France
I remember the Buzz contracts coming out when it started ( Ryr Buzz contracts not KLM) and being passed around and it was a WTF moment for Cabin crew and Pilots it was a serious down turn. and not many would believe anyone would sign it but they did.
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: France
We didn't really had a choice, they said we would get our preference bases for the line since we were the first ones to finish a type rating course in a while and most of the LTCs are available, even during wings, then 2 days later 24 of us are getting sent to buzz and the classes behind that haven't completed the base yet, already know they are going eastern. I just hope we can get a permanent base in DAC after the line training.
Some of you will get "lucky" and end up in DUB, STN or CRL, (still jumping the queue) but TIA, SOF, KRK and WMI are more probable.
With a Malta or DAC contract it's not much of a problem if there is a high crewing ratio as your basic salary will be high enough to compensate for the lack of flying. If you are with a buzz contract you are entirely dependent on flight hours and there is no minimum.