British Airways Direct Entry Pilot
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Completely incorrect. Suggest you read exactly what it says in OMa. Pilots on leisure travel most certainly CAN. If certain criteria are met…it’s all there in the BA OMa
the exact wording is no accident; i hope those above that think leisure FD access is a no-no arent current BA Captains…
the exact wording is no accident; i hope those above that think leisure FD access is a no-no arent current BA Captains…
Completely incorrect. Suggest you read exactly what it says in OMa. Pilots on leisure travel most certainly CAN. If certain criteria are met…it’s all there in the BA OMa
the exact wording is no accident; i hope those above that think leisure FD access is a no-no arent current BA Captains…
the exact wording is no accident; i hope those above that think leisure FD access is a no-no arent current BA Captains…
The story where a 787 Captain was refused access to a FD JS coming back to work after finishing a holiday in LCA (operating the next day) takes the cake. He was travelling entirely within the scope of the wording in OM-A but was denied by the operating skipper as he “doesn’t live in Larnaca”. I’d like to think if I’d been the FO involved on that flight I’d have told my Captain I was prepared to offload myself unless they could give a clear justification why they were deviating from company policy written in OM-A. It’s absolutely infuriating when people make up their own rules which aren’t written anywhere but even more so when it totally screws a colleague over for no good reason.
Last edited by Plastic787; 6th May 2023 at 10:53.
3Greens ever so sadly you meet some on the line that are. It seems to be the majority with this POV (but not exclusively) are ex Midland captains. I’ve heard numerous references from them to the idea that for BA pilots or cabin crew to travel on a FD JS they must be commuting to or from the station involved, which is stated absolutely nowhere in OM-A operating policy. As you have alluded to, the wording in OM-A has clearly been deliberately chosen so as to be permissive, not the other way around.
The story where a 787 Captain was refused access to a FD JS coming back to work after finishing a holiday in LCA (operating the next day) takes the cake. He was travelling entirely within the scope of the wording in OM-A but was denied by the operating skipper as he “doesn’t live in Larnaca”. I’d like to think if I’d been the FO involved on that flight I’d have told my Captain I was prepared to offload myself unless they could give a clear justification why they were deviating from company policy written in OM-A. It’s absolutely infuriating when people make up their own rules which aren’t written anywhere but even more so when it totally screws a colleague over for no good reason.
The story where a 787 Captain was refused access to a FD JS coming back to work after finishing a holiday in LCA (operating the next day) takes the cake. He was travelling entirely within the scope of the wording in OM-A but was denied by the operating skipper as he “doesn’t live in Larnaca”. I’d like to think if I’d been the FO involved on that flight I’d have told my Captain I was prepared to offload myself unless they could give a clear justification why they were deviating from company policy written in OM-A. It’s absolutely infuriating when people make up their own rules which aren’t written anywhere but even more so when it totally screws a colleague over for no good reason.
Yes I am deadly serious, it’s a team game. Help out your colleagues, it’s not difficult. Second of all the captain in question was risking a cancellation to the operation (especially in the current climate) the following day with his petty and unmalleable misinterpretation of OM-A operating policy, whether deliberate or not. If I can’t trust you to exercise pragmatic judgement and interpret company policy to a simple and positive conclusion with such a simple issue like that I cannot trust your judgement elsewhere and therefore I’m not flying with you. End of story.
Last edited by Plastic787; 6th May 2023 at 23:32.
Yes I am deadly serious, it’s a team game. Help out your colleagues, it’s not difficult. Second of all the captain in question was risking a cancellation to the operation (especially in the current climate) the following day with his petty and unmalleable misinterpretation of OM-A operating policy, whether deliberate or not. If I can’t trust you to exercise pragmatic judgement and interpret company policy to a simple and positive conclusion with such a simple issue like that I cannot trust your judgement elsewhere and therefore I’m not flying with you. End of story.
Edit to Add: our manuals are also pretty explicit as to who's responsible for getting back in time to report for your next duty, and it's not the operating captain on the oversold flight you're trying to jumpseat on.
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Looking north out to sea
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
4 Posts
Quite why this is being discussed here, I’m not sure.
Anyway, an interesting perspective from Plastic787. Because the operating captain can’t make a pragmatic decision (ie his is the wrong one) he is petty, unmalleable (meaning you want to mould him) and can’t be trusted. So, you would get off, of course cancelling the flight you were rostered to do. Hmmm… Best you swap seats then as you appear to think you are the captain! In addition, I’m sure ops would be overjoyed by your rational decision process.
There may be many reasons why he may exercise his right to refuse a request. For example, as a long time trainer, I never took anyone on the flight deck that had no role to play in the training. This was purely for the benefit of the trainee to avoid any pressure or should things not go quite as planned. Despite a couple of complaints to Flt Ops, the answer was always the same; it is for the captain to decide.
Me
Anyway, an interesting perspective from Plastic787. Because the operating captain can’t make a pragmatic decision (ie his is the wrong one) he is petty, unmalleable (meaning you want to mould him) and can’t be trusted. So, you would get off, of course cancelling the flight you were rostered to do. Hmmm… Best you swap seats then as you appear to think you are the captain! In addition, I’m sure ops would be overjoyed by your rational decision process.
There may be many reasons why he may exercise his right to refuse a request. For example, as a long time trainer, I never took anyone on the flight deck that had no role to play in the training. This was purely for the benefit of the trainee to avoid any pressure or should things not go quite as planned. Despite a couple of complaints to Flt Ops, the answer was always the same; it is for the captain to decide.
Me
Two replies above spoken like individuals who would happily shaft a colleague for no good reason (this was not a training flight) other than to make a point to somebody when the Ops manual clearly allows it.
So you’re basically saying you’d poison your relationship with a colleague and potential future flightdeck partner over a perceived point of principle so you can play the big I am “I’m the captain what I say goes”? Wow. Just wow. I hope to never have to share a flight deck with you.
anyway best take this argument elsewhere as I’m obviously the king (or queen) of thread drift. ATB.
So you’re basically saying you’d poison your relationship with a colleague and potential future flightdeck partner over a perceived point of principle so you can play the big I am “I’m the captain what I say goes”? Wow. Just wow. I hope to never have to share a flight deck with you.
anyway best take this argument elsewhere as I’m obviously the king (or queen) of thread drift. ATB.
Last edited by Plastic787; 7th May 2023 at 15:06.
Two replies above spoken like individuals who would happily shaft a colleague for no good reason (this was not a training flight) other than to make a point to somebody when the Ops manual clearly allows it.
So you’re basically saying you’d poison your relationship with a colleague and potential future flightdeck partner over a perceived point of principle so you can play the big I am “I’m the captain what I say goes”? Wow. Just wow. I hope to never have to share a flight deck with you.
anyway best take this argument elsewhere as I’m obviously the king (or queen) of thread drift. ATB.
So you’re basically saying you’d poison your relationship with a colleague and potential future flightdeck partner over a perceived point of principle so you can play the big I am “I’m the captain what I say goes”? Wow. Just wow. I hope to never have to share a flight deck with you.
anyway best take this argument elsewhere as I’m obviously the king (or queen) of thread drift. ATB.
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any Captain in any airline who would refuse to board a company colleague of any rank, for any reason, is a top class knobhead who shouldn't be in charge of the crew bus let alone a jet. End of.
Last edited by Confusious; 7th May 2023 at 23:22.
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And that contribution is no more than an unnecessary inarticulate digression, further drifting away from the thread. The issue being discussed is the willingness of a First Officer to risk highly probable disciplinary implications purely to make a stand against a Captain's decision.
And that contribution is no more than an unnecessary inarticulate digression, further drifting away from the thread. The issue being discussed is the willingness of a First Officer to risk highly probable disciplinary implications purely to make a stand against a Captain's decision.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the subject title; BA DEP, and prospective applicants looking in - these people are real, they do exist, in BA in numbers greater than any airlines I have encountered, (even round towards the Pacific). It's something to consider. I still shudder when I think back
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the subject title; BA DEP, and prospective applicants looking in - these people are real, they do exist, in BA in numbers greater than any airlines I have encountered, (even round towards the Pacific). It's something to consider. I still shudder when I think back
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere
Age: 33
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The last few posts on this thread are exactly why BA sounds like a terrible place to work. Superiority Complexes left, right and centre. Don't agree with the Captains decision = offloading yourself? Enjoy that meeting with the DFO.
Indeed, and who remembers when the pursers tried to argue the case that they should be second in charge and First Officers third?