British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

[GS-Alpha]

I would consider contacting recruitment and explaining that you were applying for long haul and ask them whether there has there been some kind of a mix-up.

I cannot see any reason for them to withdraw your offer if you ask for that feedback. You’ll then discover whether it was your simulator performance, something else, or they just feel they need more people on short haul right now, and are trying their luck. Armed with that info, you can consider your next step. You might find they are prepared to put you in the long haul pool if they tell you it wasn’t down to your performance, and you then tell them you’re only interested in long haul.

(I have absolutely no inside info at all as to the processes they follow).

[flightpathgolfer]

Originally Posted by GS-Alpha

I would consider contacting recruitment and explaining that you were applying for long haul and ask them whether there has there been some kind of a mix-up.

I cannot see any reason for them to withdraw your offer if you ask for that feedback. You’ll then discover whether it was your simulator performance, something else, or they just feel they need more people on short haul right now, and are trying their luck. Armed with that info, you can consider your next step. You might find they are prepared to put you in the long haul pool if they tell you it wasn’t down to your performance, and you then tell them you’re only interested in long haul.

(I have absolutely no inside info at all as to the processes they follow).

I've asked for feedback, so I will see what they say. At the end of the day, after the initial fleet freeze, I understand I can bid to move, so will get there eventually I guess.

I have seen some of your replies previously with regard to freezes, moves etc. Have I understood correctly that on day 1, you get a spot on the MSL and are fleet frozen for 5 years? Once those 5 years are up (could try before), you can bid for a fleet transfer, and if your seniority is called, then you can move? There would be no further assessment as it's seniority-driven but obviously, you have to pass the training per DCT's comments.

So essentially, MSL drives the paypoint and the internal transfer. However, once you have moved, do you go to the bottom of that fleet seniority? Or do you slot in based on when you joined the company? Just trying to understand QOL if you move from SH to LH. As I have seen people say 'you only have to be junior once' and I don't quite follow because I would've though if you move fleet, you go to the bottom of its list and would therefore not get your bids.

[DCT_ELSIR]

Originally Posted by flightpathgolfer

I've asked for feedback, so I will see what they say. At the end of the day, after the initial fleet freeze, I understand I can bid to move, so will get there eventually I guess.

I have seen some of your replies previously with regard to freezes, moves etc. Have I understood correctly that on day 1, you get a spot on the MSL and are fleet frozen for 5 years? Once those 5 years are up (could try before), you can bid for a fleet transfer, and if your seniority is called, then you can move? There would be no further assessment as it's seniority-driven but obviously, you have to pass the training per DCT's comments.

So essentially, MSL drives the paypoint and the internal transfer. However, once you have moved, do you go to the bottom of that fleet seniority? Or do you slot in based on when you joined the company? Just trying to understand QOL if you move from SH to LH. As I have seen people say 'you only have to be junior once' and I don't quite follow because I would've though if you move fleet, you go to the bottom of its list and would therefore not get your bids.

Bidding for trips is done by seniority in your fleet and seat, but it uses your master seniority list number, based on company date of joining. So if you did 5 years on the A320 and then joined the bottom of the 777, you would be junior for bidding purposes, but not as junior as those who had joined directly onto the 777 in those intervening 5 years. They would be junior to you, and you would move ahead of them for bidding which flights you want to do.

[Doug E Style]

Originally Posted by flightpathgolfer

However, once you have moved, do you go to the bottom of that fleet seniority? Or do you slot in based on when you joined the company? Just trying to understand QOL if you move from SH to LH. As I have seen people say 'you only have to be junior once' and I don't quite follow because I would've though if you move fleet, you go to the bottom of its list and would therefore not get your bids.

If you move fleets, you slot in behind everyone who joined the company before you and ahead of everyone who joined the company after you. That is what people mean when they say you only have to be junior once (at initial entry). If you choose to move onto a fleet knowing you’ll be the most junior, that’s your choice.

[GS-Alpha]

Traditionally people do tend to get released from their five year initial engagement freeze a little early for a move to long haul. This is almost always just one year early though. This year’s bid result (for 2026 moves), actually sees some people who will have only completed two training years within the company, get a move from short haul to long haul though. This is unprecedented until now, but I suspect it has to do with the unusually high level of long haul expansion that is going on, and it’s likely to do with spreading the training footprint out across the fleets. I would bank on having to do four training years, and if you get released earlier - happy days.

[Phantom4]

Very accurate and concise analysis,Sir.

[bda321]

I don't see the A320 as being as bad as it's made out. Going direct onto long haul isn't easy, for many reasons. The system does not seem to be very well designed to bring people from completely different airlines, different aircraft types and different flying environments (LH v SH) up to speed with flying a wide body across the globe out of LHR. They assign you 3 "training" trips (the quality of training can vary vastly from one trainer to the next), then a pre-check .. and then a check. A quick look at iBid can reveal how well this is working out with the sheer amount of additional training for new joiners, and command upgrades too interestingly enough.

In other words, on short haul they have a lot more sectors going about and the training can be more geared towards actual learning rather than rushed box ticking.

[flightpathgolfer]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated.

Last one from me, anyone know how long the wait in the a320 hold pool is? Any course dates planned?

[ben38uk]

In the long term, just get on that seniority list ASAP on any fleet. I started in 1987 in Aberdeen on the HS 748 turboprop, an early command on the 748 in 1990 and ended up on the 747-400. In a BA career, the seniority list is EVERYTHING.
Good luck.

[flightpathgolfer]

Originally Posted by ben38uk

In the long term, just get on that seniority list ASAP on any fleet. I started in 1987 in Aberdeen on the HS 748 turboprop, an early command on the 748 in 1990 and ended up on the 747-400. In a BA career, the seniority list is EVERYTHING.
Good luck.

Thanks for the reply. I accepted a start date in early March, which is just after I turn 31. Quite excited for what the future holds over at mainline.

Doesn't change anything now but, subject to seniorty, could you go from a SH CA to a LH CA? Or is it more common to sit as a LH FO for a couple of years beforehand to get a feel for it all?

[White Van Driver]

Originally Posted by flightpathgolfer

Thanks for the reply. I accepted a start date in early March, which is just after I turn 31. Quite excited for what the future holds over at mainline.

Doesn't change anything now but, subject to seniorty, could you go from a SH CA to a LH CA? Or is it more common to sit as a LH FO for a couple of years beforehand to get a feel for it all?

I'd say it would be uncommon for a pilot to take a downgrade to do that as you would have to do another command course if I understand correctly.
Most will go SH CA to LH CA or alternatively sit as LH FO for a long time then go LH FO to LH CA.

[flightpathgolfer]

Originally Posted by White Van Driver

I'd say it would be uncommon for a pilot to take a downgrade to do that as you would have to do another command course if I understand correctly.
Most will go SH CA to LH CA or alternatively sit as LH FO for a long time then go LH FO to LH CA.

Ah, ok, fair enough. Thanks for the reply. Do you know what the CA requirements are at the moment for SH? And if the ~5 years wait time is accurate for now?

Thinking out loud, but I plan to try and end up as a LH CA. Based on what I've understood on this forum and how seniority impacts lifestyle, I am thinking SH RHS/LHS (probably 15-20 years) until a move to LH would give me some roster control and maybe a command bid not too far away. Aiming to try and get into the LHS LH for the last 10-15 years or so of the career. If the SH isn't working with the commute, then I would look to move to LH FO asap and just suck it up being junior.

[White Van Driver]

Originally Posted by flightpathgolfer

Ah, ok, fair enough. Thanks for the reply. Do you know what the CA requirements are at the moment for SH? And if the ~5 years wait time is accurate for now?

Thinking out loud, but I plan to try and end up as a LH CA. Based on what I've understood on this forum and how seniority impacts lifestyle, I am thinking SH RHS/LHS (probably 15-20 years) until a move to LH would give me some roster control and maybe a command bid not too far away. Aiming to try and get into the LHS LH for the last 10-15 years or so of the career. If the SH isn't working with the commute, then I would look to move to LH FO asap and just suck it up being junior.

Dont have the requirements to hand but i think it has been answered already on this thread.

The time to command for the last few years has been very fast indeed, like as soon as you meet the requirements (keep in mind that we bid for it annually for the following year so when we say it happens quickly you still have to wait for that process). But there is a plan to make SH CA more attractive next year so how that changes the dynamic is anyone's guess.

You will be junior for a long time as SH CA or as LH FO but once you have been in for a while you will be able to gauge what that means for your lifestyle and commute.

Of course becoming LH CA at 20 years will see you being junior again with no roster control, but that is a long way away.

You certainly can go from SH CA to LH FO for a few years if you want, but you would have to take the pay cut and the pain of another command course later on.

[RexBanner]

Originally Posted by White Van Driver

You certainly can go from SH CA to LH FO for a few years if you want, but you would have to take the pay cut and the pain of another command course later on.

Only a £100-£200 a month paycut under the ridiculous U.K. tax regime (which is why hardly any senior LH FOs want to touch SH P1 with a bargepole). Of course not relevant if you’re a commuter.

[ben38uk]

Originally Posted by flightpathgolfer

Thanks for the reply. I accepted a start date in early March, which is just after I turn 31. Quite excited for what the future holds over at mainline.

Doesn't change anything now but, subject to seniorty, could you go from a SH CA to a LH CA? Or is it more common to sit as a LH FO for a couple of years beforehand to get a feel for it all?

It is certainly not unusual to go from SH CA to LH CA - That and LH F/O to L/H CA is the norm but it is all totally your choice. I actually did 3 right to left command courses but that is unusual. The route for me was turboprop F/O to turboprop CA to SH jet F/O to SH jet CA to LH very senior F/O for a few years before LH CA to the end. You takes your choice. Your lifestyle will change significantly depending on achieving reasonable seniority in whatever seat you have chosen. Hope this helps.

[Egurre]

Hello everyone,
I have been invited to Waterside for a DEP position assessment. Would anyone be kind enough to DM me and share some feedback on their experience?

For the capacity test, would you recommend training with Skytest, PilotAptitudeTest, or PilotAssessment?

Thank you very much for your help.

[traytabledriver]

Hi all,

Starting next year, A320 LHR. Initially I'll have (conservatively) about a 2 hour commute door to car park, barring extreme traffic mayhem that's pretty reliable so I'm not too concerned with doing it for a year or two.

However after that it might become a bit too much of a faff for the long term, so looking for recommendations of habitable areas within an hour or so of Heathrow. Ideally north of London and with as little M25 time as possible.

DMs are open to avoid clogging the thread if you so wish

TIA

[Dick_Whittington]

Originally Posted by traytabledriver

Hi all,

Starting next year, A320 LHR. Initially I'll have (conservatively) about a 2 hour commute door to car park, barring extreme traffic mayhem that's pretty reliable so I'm not too concerned with doing it for a year or two.

However after that it might become a bit too much of a faff for the long term, so looking for recommendations of habitable areas within an hour or so of Heathrow. Ideally north of London and with as little M25 time as possible.

DMs are open to avoid clogging the thread if you so wish

TIA

I've got an A320 LHR start date for January 2026. Still flying for my current operator out of LTN. My commute to LHR will be 1 hour without traffic. But im already dreading the M25 and considering a move further south, in the vicinity of St Albans, to get the commute down to 35 minutes under optimal conditions.

[3Greens]

Live where your friends/famy live. 2 hours is fine for a couple of years as you’ll move up the list fast and can even go LH in all likehood if you wish

[Hazel36]

Originally Posted by Dick_Whittington

I've got an A320 LHR start date for January 2026. Still flying for my current operator out of LTN. My commute to LHR will be 1 hour without traffic. But im already dreading the M25 and considering a move further south, in the vicinity of St Albans, to get the commute down to 35 minutes under optimal conditions.

You’ll be fine. Most of us are within 30-90mins drive from the car park, wouldn’t sweat it.