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Brexit/ACMI/Lack of UK recruitment

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Brexit/ACMI/Lack of UK recruitment

Old 14th Jul 2022, 19:53
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Brexit/ACMI/Lack of UK recruitment

Does anyone know what the deal is with ACMI in the UK and at what point the tables may turn in favour of the many unemployed British pilot's?

At present there are numerous EU ACMI operators filling the gaps for UK airlines which is allowing them to get away with not recruiting crew. These are UK airlines operating on a UK AOC and they now have European ACMI operators with EASA crews flying on their behalf.

Currently ACMI operators have a big presence at most major UK airports. They are operating flights on behalf of several major UK airlines including easyJet, Jet2, TUI and others, all of whom would be forced to employ UK licensed pilots should the EU ACMI market not be there to provide short to medium term crewing solutions.

I'm hoping that this will come to an end at the end of the 2 year grace period and UK licensed pilots may have some opportunities thrown their way soon however I fear that as long as this practice is allowed to continue there will be little to no opportunities for those of us who have been unfortunate enough to fall foul of Brexit and Covid.

Does anyone know if this will be legal next summer or if we can expect some hefty recruitment over the winter? At present the job boards are becoming increasingly depressing given that we are now seeing pre 2019 levels of demand.







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Old 14th Jul 2022, 20:06
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Ask that Charlatan Grant Shapps or whatever name he uses this month for tax purposes.........he’ll set you straight!! T
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Old 14th Jul 2022, 20:15
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This doesn’t answer your question but …


I believe Jet2, DHL Air U.K. and Ryanair are amongst those recruiting for U.K. bases at this time.

Regarding the Brexit effect, the U.K. government has made it quite clear they value ideology over pragmatism, and it doesn’t look like things are going to change any time soon.
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Old 14th Jul 2022, 20:22
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Originally Posted by Alrosa View Post
This doesn’t answer your question but …


I believe Jet2, DHL Air U.K. and Ryanair are amongst those recruiting for U.K. bases at this time.

Regarding the Brexit effect, the U.K. government has made it quite clear they value ideology over pragmatism, and it doesn’t look like things are going to change any time soon.

Jet2 - opened recruitment but haven't replied to me or anyone else I know - whilst Vamos, Smartlynx and Air Tanker operate their flights throughout their bases.

Ryanair - FO's only advertised at the moment.

DHL - did take a few guys earlier in the year.

I suspect most airlines will be doing everything they can to not recruit until next year when the picture is clearer re Russia, Covid, fuel prices but most of all the financial crisis that could really screw J2, TUI and others.
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Old 14th Jul 2022, 21:06
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Have you actually paid any attention to U.K. aviation over the last 20 years? Summer ACMI contracts are nothing new and have been used by all the big players every summer. What business resources to its peak requirements with very expensive assets only to see them sit idle for half of the year?
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Old 14th Jul 2022, 21:46
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Originally Posted by Big Tudor View Post
Have you actually paid any attention to U.K. aviation over the last 20 years? Summer ACMI contracts are nothing new and have been used by all the big players every summer. What business resources to its peak requirements with very expensive assets only to see them sit idle for half of the year?
The issue raised by the OP is not about the usage of ACMI operators per se. It is the situation brought about by Brexit whereby EU ACMI carriers whom UK pilots cannot work for are operating UK flights that would otherwise be crewed by UK pilots.

We are not allowed to work in our own backyard essentially. Just imagine for a nanosecond if EU train drivers were brought in to operate for UK railway companies whilst unemployed UK train drivers could not work for them. The whole network would grind to a halt until Grant Shapps was dragged in by his underpants to do something about it.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 06:54
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Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
It is the situation brought about by Brexit whereby EU ACMI carriers whom UK pilots cannot work for are operating UK flights that would otherwise be crewed by U.K. pilots.
Ok, I concede that is a fair point, but the issue still stands that U.K. airlines are not going to resource fully to peak levels without an opportunity to off load that cost in the quieter months. There are only 2 U.K. players in the ACMI market and both are fully utilised. Maybe they need to increase their capabilities, or we need more U.K. based operators to service the market.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 12:58
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DHL Air uk has recruited a lot of pilots this year and continue to do so.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:07
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
DHL Air uk has recruited a lot of pilots this year and continue to do so.
They've hired people with x000 hrs on boeings or other widebody jets. That doesn't apply to a large chunk of UK pilots and they have practically no other options. .
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:15
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Ryanair, Ezy, TCX, J2 are among the previous employers of pilots I’m involved with training at the moment. No LEPs certainly but by no means is everyone as you describe.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:21
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
Ryanair, Ezy, TCX, J2 are among the previous employers of pilots I’m involved with training at the moment. No LEPs certainly but by no means is everyone as you describe.
They've all got jet hours and I'm willing to bet the majority also have more than 1000 or 1500hrs. The point remains that there are few to no opportunities for pilots with turboprop hours, those with low hours or those fresh from flight school.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:27
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From what I can see, almost everyone I know who didn't have a job last year has now got one. Mostly they even have jobs that they want. The ramp up in recruitment of experienced pilots really got going mid winter, and from what I hear, getting peeps properly checked and in their seats is taking a long time. I would guess, as is always the way, those with the least experience find it hardest at the back of the queue.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:28
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No argument from me on that. We did our big LEP hiring a few years ago, now picking up a lot of redundees from a variety of airlines, some UK, some not.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:53
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Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
The issue raised by the OP is not about the usage of ACMI operators per se. It is the situation brought about by Brexit whereby EU ACMI carriers whom UK pilots cannot work for are operating UK flights that would otherwise be crewed by UK pilots.

We are not allowed to work in our own backyard essentially. Just imagine for a nanosecond if EU train drivers were brought in to operate for UK railway companies whilst unemployed UK train drivers could not work for them. The whole network would grind to a halt until Grant Shapps was dragged in by his underpants to do something about it.
Well, that is exactly what was negotiated by your government in the TCA with the EU: ACMI from the EU to the UK is still possible, from the UK to the EU only in exceptional cases and if the company leasing in can prove that no EU ACMI capacity is available.

Yes. It is not a reciprocal agreement, but apparently Lord Snowflake and Ms Mordaunt wanted it that way. I suggest to vote responsibly the next time around.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 14:56
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Can only speak for J2 but the ACMI usage is less to do with lack of crew and more to do with adding that extra summer capacity at little to no long term risk to the business. It's not like there are a bunch of empty airplanes sitting around with no crew to fly them.

As for the opening up of turboprop jobs in the winter, hold your breath because there are about to be plenty at a certain Scottish carrier considering Jet are currently doing recruitment days 3 days a week until the end of the summer and the place was packed with Scots last week. Out of the nearly 10,000 applications they got less than 20% had UK licences, and with 150 jobs to offer this year that means 1 in 10 who applied will get in
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 15:06
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Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns View Post
Can only speak for J2 but the ACMI usage is less to do with lack of crew and more to do with adding that extra summer capacity at little to no long term risk to the business. It's not like there are a bunch of empty airplanes sitting around with no crew to fly them.

As for the opening up of turboprop jobs in the winter, hold your breath because there are about to be plenty at a certain Scottish carrier considering Jet are currently doing recruitment days 3 days a week until the end of the summer and the place was packed with Scots last week. Out of the nearly 10,000 applications they got less than 20% had UK licences, and with 150 jobs to offer this year that means 1 in 10 who applied will get in
Are Jet2 not considering applications from those who have applied for UK licenses? I have applied for the UK CAA FCL and medical a number of months ago, still waiting for them to be issued. I did include this information in the application.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 16:17
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Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
Are Jet2 not considering applications from those who have applied for UK licenses? I have applied for the UK CAA FCL and medical a number of months ago, still waiting for them to be issued. I did include this
​​​​information in the application.
I haven't heard anything to say they aren't and I'm sure their will be a certain level of TR recruitment from abroad if required but logic would suggest those already with a UK license are going to be at the front of the que. I could be completely wrong but speaking to a friend at the assessment last week he said there was about 25 pilots from Loganair on his day alone. And they are doing 3 a week.

The sim check is the real decider though, if you have gotten through to interview you have already been pre selected by HR and unless you are way off the reservation the pilot interview is very straight forward.

One last thing is the candidates will get offered based on overall score, if someone interviews later but scores higher they will get offered first, 'thems the breaks' as flop head would say
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 17:11
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
DHL Air uk has recruited a lot of pilots this year and continue to do so.
They opened up to NTR earlier in the year, not a sniff since unless you're rated on 777.

"continues to do so" - can you show me the advert please?! I can't see it anywhere.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 17:14
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Originally Posted by Denti View Post
Well, that is exactly what was negotiated by your government in the TCA with the EU: ACMI from the EU to the UK is still possible, from the UK to the EU only in exceptional cases and if the company leasing in can prove that no EU ACMI capacity is available.

Yes. It is not a reciprocal agreement, but apparently Lord Snowflake and Ms Mordaunt wanted it that way. I suggest to vote responsibly the next time around.

Thanks for your kind words.
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Old 15th Jul 2022, 17:23
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Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns View Post
Can only speak for J2 but the ACMI usage is less to do with lack of crew and more to do with adding that extra summer capacity at little to no long term risk to the business. It's not like there are a bunch of empty airplanes sitting around with no crew to fly them.

As for the opening up of turboprop jobs in the winter, hold your breath because there are about to be plenty at a certain Scottish carrier considering Jet are currently doing recruitment days 3 days a week until the end of the summer and the place was packed with Scots last week. Out of the nearly 10,000 applications they got less than 20% had UK licences, and with 150 jobs to offer this year that means 1 in 10 who applied will get in

Re ACMI - fair enough and I do understand from a business perspective. However the point remains re our soft government who are allowing UK licensed pilots to be disadvantaged by allowing EU ACMI operators access to the UK market.

Re J2 recruitment - UK licensed 73 Cpt, 6000+ hrs. Not heard a thing.
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