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Brexit/ACMI/Lack of UK recruitment

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Brexit/ACMI/Lack of UK recruitment

Old 18th Jul 2022, 12:10
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you can thank the UK for hopelessly rolling over on this issue, its very much a one way street post-brexit, as far as ACMI, the majority of these are opportunist contracts to increase capacity, if the alternative was for UK airlines to employ more pilots to fly additional leased aircraft, both of whom would sit idle over the Winter costing them millions, then those UK airlines simply wouldnt put the extra capacity on, it wouldnt be worth it.
Its unfair on UK pilots, but same as it ever was.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 23:19
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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If you really want to have an impact on the ACMI operations here in the UK I think the best bet is to look into how they’re allowed to work in the UK without appropriate visas… I’m sure all the smartlinx guys living in hotels don’t have the right to work in the UK yet here they are…
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 23:54
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It's not 'same as it ever was' - Right there in the brexit TCA is the glaring inequity - European airlines are permitted to conduct wet leases for UK airlines, but UK airlines are not accorded the reciprocal rights. It's a disgrace.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 00:47
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
"The UK people" did not vote for an agreement whereby foreign pilots can fly within the UK at the expense of British pilots.

Even at that, the referendum was mighty close and the only solid turnout was from those who felt strongly enough about it (I.e. bought into the red bus propaganda). The vast majority were complacent and didn't bother voting, not believing it was ever actually going to happen. Without any shadow of a doubt another referendum today would yield a different result.
The majority of people that voted, voted to leave - with all associated consequences and despite clear warnings.
Whilst I am sorry for your personal situation, it is simply the truth - the UK voted to leave an economic pact, and now has to deal with that accordingly. And… as long as there are no domestic flights operated by ACMI operators, what should really be done?

ACMI operators have always been around - simply brexit and its consequences excluded British pilots from employment with them. But that is not the fault of the ACMI operators in the first place.

Purely the actions of your own government excludes you from employment with carriers in 27 states.

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Old 19th Jul 2022, 00:50
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Originally Posted by Potatos_69 View Post
If you really want to have an impact on the ACMI operations here in the UK I think the best bet is to look into how they’re allowed to work in the UK without appropriate visas… I’m sure all the smartlinx guys living in hotels don’t have the right to work in the UK yet here they are…
They are based in a EU country, and they are simply on a layover in the UK.

Next on you are complaining about United Airlines crews on a layover in the UK?!?

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Old 19th Jul 2022, 03:18
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowPassGliderA330 View Post
Purely the actions of your own government excludes you from employment with carriers in 27 states.
I think it is an accepted fact that UK pilots cannot work in Europe. The issue at hand is the extent to which EU pilots are taking UK jobs in one form or another. If the UK wants to leave the EU, it should do so properly, and that means forcing operators to "buy" UK. Furthermore, I do not understand how a UK operator is allowed to run off an EU AOC.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 11:11
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Obviously we’re looking at this from the point of view of U.K. pilots, but U.K. operators probably didn’t want Brexit either. If the supply of ACMI from the EU was stopped then the companies using them would have to either reduce capacity, or alternatively somehow find additional aircraft and go through the process of placing them on the U.K. register, and recruiting flight crew, cabin crew and engineers. Those aircraft would then sit around in the winter losing money, and that would certainly reflect upon the bottom line and on the Ts and Cs.
As someone mentioned it has always been thus. I got my U.K. (non EASA) CPL in 1986 and it was ten years before I had a job that paid more than a truck driver, and I was flying for the whole ten years in non airline jobs.
I admit that I didn’t vote to leave, but it is what it is, we’re stuck with it and sadly spending time discussing it on PPRuNe won’t change things.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 15:27
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Originally Posted by LowPassGliderA330 View Post
They are based in a EU country, and they are simply on a layover in the UK.

Next on you are complaining about United Airlines crews on a layover in the UK?!?
They don't layover in UK. Their flights are originated from UK and they are based there for a significant amount of time. So one can discuss that their crew might be operating illegally in UK.

United Airlines flights originated from US and they are doing truly layover in UK. Two different thing.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 19:39
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Originally Posted by uberfly View Post
They don't layover in UK. Their flights are originated from UK and they are based there for a significant amount of time. So one can discuss that their crew might be operating illegally in UK.
SmartLynx and Avion crew have officially been told...

Please be kindly reminded that there is a special regulation in the UK specifically for aircrews, which allows crew members to enter the UK without visas and/or other additional documents if crew member leaves the UK in 7 days.

When entering the UK please report to the Immigration Office that you have arrived as an airline crew member and you will be leaving the UK in few (2-3) days, which reflects to your own rosters.

Arriving as aircrew without the UK visa and/or other additional document is allowed, therefore, kindly note the correct way of presenting your purpose of arrival.
By "leaving the UK" what they mean is that as long as you operate a duty out of the UK and back, you are legal. Of course this is abuse of the system. However, the airports (particurly LGW) know about it but are turning a blind eye.
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 06:08
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RYR been told as well. They were basing EU peeps in UK during LT but can only do this for 3 months now.
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 09:19
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mrmorreti View Post
Absolutely correct.

I have given it some thought and can't come up with any other industry where those at the pointy end, responsible for so much and open to such intense scrutiny have been screwed to such an extent.
This applies to any serious industry where travelling crews are involved.

If you go to any major industrial site (power station, paper mill, steel mill, auto plant, railway, etc) during a intense work period (a shutdown or a construction event) you will find the place swamped with non-UK engineers & technicians. During the period of UK membership of the EU that was a two-way flow, now it is only one-way.

The legalities of the inbound flow vary. Some crews come into the UK entirely legally on short term specialist visas that are handed out like confett, they tend to be working for (or subcontracted to) the major companies. Others are less legal but not hindered. Going the other way the rules are correctly and strictly applied and basically there is now little to no flow.

Needless to say this news does not get allowed into the media who appear to be enforcing a de facto censorship to all matters Brexit.

This stuff has affected lots of my peer group.

(Anyone who voted for Brexit gets zero sympathy from me. Those who voted Remain get all my sympathy. This is by no means over yet.)
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 14:05
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Yep let’s see how Norse UK bends the rules when it’s parent company is Europe based and no financial ownership in the UK. How will they be allowed a UK AOC?
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 14:10
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same way WUK and RUK did no doubt
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 14:46
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Originally Posted by G-AZUK View Post
same way WUK and RUK did no doubt
grandfather rights Pre Brexit though
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 07:28
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post
RYR been told as well. They were basing EU peeps in UK during LT but can only do this for 3 months now.
Which rule gives them 3 months?
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 12:46
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Originally Posted by biddedout View Post
Which rule gives them 3 months?
As I understand it. Ryanair were basing EU passport holders in the UK for LT until recently before giving them a permanent base in Europe. They can still LT EU passport holders in the UK but for only 3 months and LT usually takes longer than this so they only LT UK passport holders in the UK now.
The ground school/SIM training isn’t included in this time frame. Not 100% sure why but my guess is because the ground school and SIM is training and cadets don’t get paid until base training is completed. They aren’t officially working until this point.

Of course you need an EASA license to work for RYR.
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Old 22nd Jul 2022, 14:29
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Thanks for the info. I have had a good luck through the Home Office site and still cannot see any reference to a 3 months allowable stay without some form of visa.
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