BA Holdpool
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 332
Likes: 75
From: Oxford
When is the last time management came in the crewroom and asked: "Nigel(lette), what should we do, the shareholders aren't happy?". The only reason for a pilot to know about the financial performance of the company they are applying for, is to make sure they can pay him. HR should be interested if they are a good pilot. HR asking pilots about company financials makes as much sense as HR asking accountants applying at BA to recite 747 engine fire memory items. And yes, with this attitude I will not get hired at BA, Got it, Thanks!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: uk
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: UK
You can start further away down the M4 or up the M40 but you’re into petrol cost and sometimes hotels before earlies and extra duty hours at the beginning and end of your day sitting on the motorway in traffic.
Best stretching it as far as you can feel comfortable driving without dipping frequently into hotel before duties territory. That’s the road to notown doing that long term. You’ll blow lots of your time off and money on hotels and fuel just to do the job and it’ll drive you crackers eventually. I’m in that position, not by choice. I think it’s sometimes overlooked that BA agreed pay is fairly good but it’s perversely a very expensive job to do. Either upping one’s life to live nearby or spending £300-£900 a month getting to and from work with hotels/petrol or flights. That’s £3k-£9k a year allowing for leave. So as a commuter knock £5k min off the annual salary (and the delta too)
My advice if you’re looking at doing the BA thing with years on SH is draw a circle around Heathrow based on a radius of time factoring in you’ll have been operating knackered for long duties. It won’t actually be a proper circle as going too far round the M25 means 30/45 mins say is awful close whereas it’ll arc out a little more down the M4. (On a bad time of the day 30 mins still has you watching aircraft take off above your car just outside Heathrow)
Good luck.
Last edited by Jack the rabbit; 6th August 2022 at 23:30.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 48
...
My understanding is that the Delta salary subtraction (expected to be minus 9% next year) is applicable to all BA and Euroflyer new hire headline salaries as well as to existing pilots.
See the BA Delta thread - British Airways and 'The Delta' Pay Cut. - and the BA pilots current ballot on the subject.
You might wish to factor that into your salary expectation and the advertised salary.
Warning - Questioning the Delta or why Easy LGW pilots get paid 50 % more for the same job, or mentioning the ongoing Osborne/BA Employment Tribunal case - https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribun...841-slash-2020
- may well be fail points.
Good luck to you all ... LFH
...
I just put the salary they advertised for the euroflyer position ..
See the BA Delta thread - British Airways and 'The Delta' Pay Cut. - and the BA pilots current ballot on the subject.
You might wish to factor that into your salary expectation and the advertised salary.
Warning - Questioning the Delta or why Easy LGW pilots get paid 50 % more for the same job, or mentioning the ongoing Osborne/BA Employment Tribunal case - https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribun...841-slash-2020
- may well be fail points.
Good luck to you all ... LFH
...
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: England
I've been told by 2 close colleagues already working at BA that they're confident that the 'delta' doesn't apply to new colleagues (something that everyone - almost rightly - seems to be dearly bitter about). Contradicts the consensus on here though that Delta will apply to everyone - Anyone got a concrete answer?
I think it'd be a difficult pill to swallow when you're asked to sign a contract with a stated pay scale and then someone says "actually, we're running a payout at the moment so this isn't accurate.."
I think it'd be a difficult pill to swallow when you're asked to sign a contract with a stated pay scale and then someone says "actually, we're running a payout at the moment so this isn't accurate.."
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Voted out
I've been told by 2 close colleagues already working at BA that they're confident that the 'delta' doesn't apply to new colleagues (something that everyone - almost rightly - seems to be dearly bitter about). Contradicts the consensus on here though that Delta will apply to everyone - Anyone got a concrete answer?
I think it'd be a difficult pill to swallow when you're asked to sign a contract with a stated pay scale and then someone says "actually, we're running a payout at the moment so this isn't accurate.."
I think it'd be a difficult pill to swallow when you're asked to sign a contract with a stated pay scale and then someone says "actually, we're running a payout at the moment so this isn't accurate.."
PRP (redundant pilots) do not have the delta paycut, new hires externally, do. as mentioned previously in the thread.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
With the best will in the world (and an understanding that airlines throw logic and reasoning out the window regularly), why would a new hire be expected to take the ‘delta’? If the purpose was to save jobs and retain talent through the various hold pools that are now empty, why would the delta continue, let alone be a burden of an external hire? Do the PRP waive the pay cut simply due to being based at Gatters?
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Voted out
With the best will in the world (and an understanding that airlines throw logic and reasoning out the window regularly), why would a new hire be expected to take the ‘delta’? If the purpose was to save jobs and retain talent through the various hold pools that are now empty, why would the delta continue, let alone be a burden of an external hire? Do the PRP waive the pay cut simply due to being based at Gatters?
Pools might be empty but BA pilots/ balpa signed the delta deal in 2020, doesn't mean it goes away.
You might sign a mortgage, if your house price falls doesn't mean the mortgage goes away just because the market has changed...
If said new hire doesn't want the delta, no one is forcing them to submit the application and go through a three-step hiring process to join.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
Edit: to use the mortgage example, if you signed a 3% interest mortgage and were stuck in it and then they advertised a new rate of 2% to new customers, why would the new customer have to accept the 3% just because you did historically?
Last edited by Seosan; 11th August 2022 at 18:34.
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: UK
If new hires didn’t pay it, there’d be 3 scales. The A scale- PP24 people paying a delta. The B scale - you guys- new joiners not paying a delta and the C scale - current PP34 pilots hit with the delta.
The terms they will trumpet in Q and As are the terms we’ve seen challenged year on year
For what it’s worth there’s hardly a non management pilot that thinks anyone should be paying this permanant (if you’re over 30 something) pay cut/tax
The terms they will trumpet in Q and As are the terms we’ve seen challenged year on year
For what it’s worth there’s hardly a non management pilot that thinks anyone should be paying this permanant (if you’re over 30 something) pay cut/tax
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Voted out
Thanks. Makes sense, I guess quite the faux pas from BA BALPA to let that be indefinite.
Edit: to use the mortgage example, if you signed a 3% interest mortgage and were stuck in it and then they advertised a new rate of 2% to new customers, why would the new customer have to accept the 3% just because you did historically?
Edit: to use the mortgage example, if you signed a 3% interest mortgage and were stuck in it and then they advertised a new rate of 2% to new customers, why would the new customer have to accept the 3% just because you did historically?
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
In terms of multiple scales; just playing devil’s advocate but it sounds like a great way to divide pilots and reduce faith in the union. Not that the company would like to do that or anything…
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Voted out
Alright so my banking metaphor wasn’t great! The appeal (as has always been) of BA is the longevity and variety your career can have there, along with a decent paycheque. I’m not saying that anyone is forced into applying, but it doesn’t make sense to me that a new entrant would be presented with a pay scale and then told that a random, incalculable percentage will be deducted monthly from now until retirement. Internally, whilst still an awful deal, it was at least accepted by the union and its members. Isn’t the delta up for negotiation at present anyhow? Surely it can’t last much longer.
In terms of multiple scales; just playing devil’s advocate but it sounds like a great way to divide pilots and reduce faith in the union. Not that the company would like to do that or anything…
In terms of multiple scales; just playing devil’s advocate but it sounds like a great way to divide pilots and reduce faith in the union. Not that the company would like to do that or anything…
not saying it’s fair, but applications are inundated and this thread is full of people desparate to apply at any cost (even when people applying weakens Balpas negotiating position) so that all that really needs to be said … some sheep will do anything even when warned by multiple sources.
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 171
Likes: 31
From: European riviera
BA has always been inundated by applications whenever DEP opens up, and frankly I can’t see that changing anytime soon. Whilst things are far from rosy at BA, and weren’t when I was there, you only have to visit for instance, the Middle East forum to see that the grass isn’t necessarily greener elsewhere.
That’s not to say there are no better options out there, that depends on your views and your situation…a young, single person with no financial commitments could view BA in a very different light to someone with a mortgage and family in their mid 30s…
As for BALPA/BA ….no comment.
That’s not to say there are no better options out there, that depends on your views and your situation…a young, single person with no financial commitments could view BA in a very different light to someone with a mortgage and family in their mid 30s…
As for BALPA/BA ….no comment.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 122
Likes: 27
From: World
not saying it’s fair, but applications are inundated and this thread is full of people desparate to apply at any cost (even when people applying weakens Balpas negotiating position) so that all that really needs to be said … some sheep will do anything even when warned by multiple sources.
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Voted out
Applications don’t weaken too much. It’s weakened only if those guys actually accept a contract with the Delta. If all applicants refused it, it would strengthen their position. However, sadly I can’t see many purple Airbus operators refusing a contract even with the pay cut.
same principle different label whatever
