BA Holdpool

[White Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Seosan

Potentially another naïve question from me but a few Nigels in here have provided some great answers so far so here goes:

I’m reading a lot about the toxic management/culture within BA. Now, I can only go on my own experience at my current outfit, but aside from being disappointed in the decision-making at executive level on some things as a whole, I think I’ve probably had one firm interaction with pilot management in the last four years. Part of the beauty of flying is shutting the aircraft door behind you and switching off, and as long as the folks you’re flying with are good sorts you have a nice day out. Is BA management/ops run differently? Are you constantly in contact with your line managers/senior mgmt to a point where their ethos on how to run an airline gets in the way?

my experience at BA is similar to yours. I've not had a single interaction with management that was actually management related. Day-to-day you are left alone to get the job done. So long as you aren't constantly cocking everything up you won't hear from anyone.

The daily frustrations are more related to the way the different departments are seemingly under resourced making it impossible to deliver the service that we would like to give the passengers. Despite our best efforts, it's far too often that something out of our control thwarts the plan and we are apologising again.
As a really common example, we will arrive on time only to have our stand occupied for half an hour, then another 10 minute wait to get the stand guidance switched on. So frustrating to be burning huge amounts of fuel and watching dozens of passengers miss their connections because of some invisible upstream problems that we don't really understand. Oh and then there will be too few wheelchairs and no one around to get more, leaving us waiting with the pax on board, again apologising.

[Seosan]

Originally Posted by White Van Driver

As a really common example, we will arrive on time only to have our stand occupied for half an hour, then another 10 minute wait to get the stand guidance switched on. So frustrating to be burning huge amounts of fuel and watching dozens of passengers miss their connections because of some invisible upstream problems that we don't really understand. Oh and then there will be too few wheelchairs and no one around to get more, leaving us waiting with the pax on board, again apologising.

All sounds very familiar!

[Globally Challenged]

Originally Posted by White Van Driver

my experience at BA is similar to yours. I've not had a single interaction with management that was actually management related. Day-to-day you are left alone to get the job done. So long as you aren't constantly cocking everything up you won't hear from anyone.

The daily frustrations are more related to the way the different departments are seemingly under resourced making it impossible to deliver the service that we would like to give the passengers. Despite our best efforts, it's far too often that something out of our control thwarts the plan and we are apologising again.
As a really common example, we will arrive on time only to have our stand occupied for half an hour, then another 10 minute wait to get the stand guidance switched on. So frustrating to be burning huge amounts of fuel and watching dozens of passengers miss their connections because of some invisible upstream problems that we don't really understand. Oh and then there will be too few wheelchairs and no one around to get more, leaving us waiting with the pax on board, again apologising.

Are those not airport issues rather than airline?

I had the same issue with Swiss at the weekend landing at T2 and we were on time departure and flight duration was dead on the flight plan (as per Aerobrief)

[Die By Wire]

Aircraft operate really well as long as they never go near an airport.

[White Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Die By Wire

Aircraft operate really well as long as they never go near an airport.

Hahaha brilliant 😆

I guess the question is more "What is it like working for BA" than "What operational issues are BA's fault".

Yes some of the issues are out of BA's control, but some definitely are. And some are somewhere inbetween.... e.g. bringing in the lowest cost subcontractor - ok technically the issue might be their fault but what after you have voluntarily given that remit away from your direct control, and to a third party highly motivated to drive down cost, I think you share some responsibility.

[Treestripe]

I’m in the regular hold pool. I had an email update to say as I completed all stages I don’t need to reapply for this recruitment drive, just to update some details.

Havent had any other information the email just said to fill in the form and we hope to have further information soon.

In the process of converting back to CAA license just in case it’s sooner than expected but really not sure

[Die By Wire]

“PRP is done (a few holding out for long haul offers but SH offers have been made), PHP I believe is mostly all done too, but may not quite be finished. I there were only about 30 in that group.”

Errr…. I don’t think so? I’m in the PRP and haven’t been offered anything yet, LH or SH. Just getting email updates of intentions to offer something shortly and looking forward to being welcomed back in the coming months.

[Jwscud]

Everyone has been offered the opportunity to go to LGW. For good reason, many have elected not to take that offer up. I believe offers have been made to those in the PHP but only for LGW positions declined by others.

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by Busdriver01

Gosh, I had bad info then! I was sure the last of the prp had received a date. Guess that means PHP also not been touched either then.

(Some) TR’d in the PHP have been offered EF and have start dates/contracts.

The PHP is larger than just 30.

There is nothing even hinted about people in the existing holdpool being mixed with the current recruitment campaign; quite the opposite in fact, they’ve been told that others will not be recruited before them.

No info on how or where cadets are placed, apologies.

[skyflyer101]

When people say recruitment drive for next summer do they mean the recruitment stages / campaign during next summer OR are we talking recruitment drive pre Easter for dates starting next summer?

Also it correct to say that absolutely no one has been offered LH courses?

I suppose there’s no way people in the regular hold pool will be offered LH before a PRP or a PHP person right?

Any update on the delayed 787s?

[smoggy68]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

When people say recruitment drive for next summer do they mean the recruitment stages / campaign during next summer OR are we talking recruitment drive pre Easter for dates starting next summer?

Also it correct to say that absolutely no one has been offered LH courses?

I suppose there’s no way people in the regular hold pool will be offered LH before a PRP or a PHP person right?

Any update on the delayed 787s?

Have you been able to get any idea from BA of numbers waiting in the holdpool?

[thetimesreader84]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

Any update on the delayed 787s?

Apparently BA's jets have been moved out of storage to the boeing plant for rework before delivery late Autumn. 787 is currently overcrewed and very probably over subscribed with internal bidders.

[Chief Willy]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

When people say recruitment drive for next summer do they mean the recruitment stages / campaign during next summer OR are we talking recruitment drive pre Easter for dates starting next summer?

Also it correct to say that absolutely no one has been offered LH courses?

I suppose there’s no way people in the regular hold pool will be offered LH before a PRP or a PHP person right?

Any update on the delayed 787s?

As has been said before, its possible but unlikely anyone will be offered LH from this round and extremely unlikely the 787, but then stranger things have happened. This is the recruitment round for next summer as the lead time (advert, application, interviews, job offers, notice periods etc) come up to around 8+ months in reality.

If you join just be prepared for junior SH life. Its not actually all that bad, there are some brilliant nightstops and with a huge varied route network the flying is challenging and rewarding. Whilst pay is a “current theme” there are much worse places out there and BA’s pension contributions are pretty good by modern standards. You are fed and watered onboard and there are various corporate perks too. The career path still eventually offers you longhaul or a shorthaul command if that’s the path you want to go down.

[skyflyer101]

Thanks Chief Willy,

so by that logic, if the new campaign recruits are expected to have actual start dates in Summer next year, it can be assumed that the entire PRP, PHP, and current hold pool will be completed emptied and everyone in those 3 categories will have been offered a job in some form be it SH or LH for start dates BEFORE summer?

[Chief Willy]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

Thanks Chief Willy,

so by that logic, if the new campaign recruits are expected to have actual start dates in Summer next year, it can be assumed that the entire PRP, PHP, and current hold pool will be completed emptied and everyone in those 3 categories will have been offered a job in some form be it SH or LH for start dates BEFORE summer?

I’d have thought so, yes. But then this is all subject to world events etc. If you want to apply I’d go for it, don’t be too put off by the negatives. I honestly believe there are no really good pilot jobs out there any more.

[A320LGW]

I've 2 questions about the application process I'd be grateful if people could answer:

Does anyone know when we can expect to hear an answer to our application and when assessment days are expected?

What simulator is the assessment going to be in? I believe it was 747 or 767 in the past though I presume those sims have been removed ..

Cheers

[skyflyer101]

Thanks Chief Willy! I'm sitting in the hold pool wondering when/if there'll be a call

[skyflyer101]

Originally Posted by thetimesreader84

Apparently BA's jets have been moved out of storage to the boeing plant for rework before delivery late Autumn. 787 is currently overcrewed and very probably over subscribed with internal bidders.

When people talk about internal bidders and movements internally, when do these movements actually happen? Is there a set date during the year or is it on a rolling basis? For example, if it is the former then will there not be a date by which we will know what the actual internal movements were?

[thetimesreader84]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

When people talk about internal bidders and movements internally, when do these movements actually happen? Is there a set date during the year or is it on a rolling basis? For example, if it is the former then will there not be a date by which we will know what the actual internal movements were?

Traditionally, there would be a bidding process in around June / July (known as "PRIAM" for... reasons). You'd submit what fleet / seat you'd want to move to. The computer would crunch the numbers vs the network plan (what aircraft are doing what routes, + deliveries - retirements etc) for the next year, and eventually there'd be output a big list with everyone's bid on it, and if you're successful next to your chosen bid would be "OK". OK bids would be allocated by seniority - start at number 1 and work down.

The actual courses would be allocated in seniority order. You'd officially get notified of your course in the monthly bid pack, so about 6 weeks notice of a start date.

Thats the basic version. Theres various edge cases (waifs, pay protection, forced / aspirational bids, MOP, etc etc) that arent really relevant for this discussion.

However there's been a change for this year. Instead of one big bid, which was usually hopelessly out of date by the time the courses started, we're having a rolling bid. The bidding process will be open for months, you can change your bid as and when, and at some indeterminate point (I've heard every 3 months, but that's not official) a snap shot of people's bids will be taken. Results will be published and courses allocated in a similar way to the above. There won't be one published list (GDPR), youll get your results individually, but I'm sure the number crunchers will provide some results to show what the lowest successful seniority bid for each fleet & seat was.

The bid is currently open. I haven't heard when it will close (the old PRIAM bid had a defined closing date).

[skyflyer101]

Thanks for the explanation.

So whenever it is that this "bid" closes will shed light to the recruitment team about where people exactly are going to be needed and when?