Brexit the Enabler? Forgive my ignorance ..

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by happyjack

The often quoted term " No right to live and work in the EU anymore" is not correct. What has been forfeited is the automatic right only. It is still entirely possible.

Which EU airline provides work visas for British pilots and their families?

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Contact approach exactly!!! All those points.

It took me around 4 months to SOLI and it was not an easy process. I was employed up until March 2020. Had a few interviews lined up all UK based between May-August 2020 lovely. Obviously never expected COVID to get so bad. Couldn’t sort anything until 2021 due to restrictions on travel get COVID myself etc etc.

All in around £3k to get an EASA licence. I mean I had to do an initial C1 medical again but can only be done either in London or Birmingham. Held a C1 for 10 years and had to spend £1000 to get an initial.

For people outside of the UK or EU it is nigh on impossible.

[happyjack]

Originally Posted by FlyingStone

Which EU airline provides work visas for British pilots and their families?

There are thousands of Brits working in the EU who have been sponsored by their employer to be there. Not so much in aviation I grant you but also prior to Brexit how many British pilots were working for Air France, Lufthansa, etc? They always protected their domestic pilot situation. Britain gave its away and continues to do so. There are corporate operators on the continent that will still help with the required paperwork if they want you!

[happyjack]

Whalejet. I get no joy whatsoever from reading a story like that and I wish you better fortune elsewhere.
However, your story completely re-inforces my point. Obstacles are put in the way of British pilots to protect the European workforce. That's always been the case. But It is NOT reciprecated in any way.
On the contrary, the requirement for an EU pilot citizen to get a UK flying job is little more than a minimum salary of 25,600 GBP. So that's everyone then?
The UK welcome all foreign pilots whilst screwing their own's abilties to work somewhere else through licencing. I can think of no other country that would do such a thing? Indeed, a UK airline with an EASA AOC that now cannot employ UK pilots without EASA licences, that they had 2 years ago, so look to take foreign pilots instead? You just could not make this up!
With all the Brexit agreements there was a chance to reciprecate with everything. As any sensible person would do? But I can think of no situation at all where this has been the case? Made all the more appalling as the UK had the much stronger hand in any negotiation to get it's way but thanks to the traitors in Westminster it has all been given away for no return. A shocking mess that has tainted Brexit and will continue to do so for ever. Even now, 7 years after the vote and 2 years after leaving the EU what has been done to exploit the "free" position the UK is in and capitalise on it? Nothing? Your government is actively working against you!

[nomilk]

Originally Posted by happyjack

W
With all the Brexit agreements there was a chance to reciprecate with everything. As any sensible person would do? But I can think of no situation at all where this has been the case? Made all the more appalling as the UK had the much stronger hand in any negotiation to get it's way but thanks to the traitors in Westminster it has all been given away for no return. A shocking mess that has tainted Brexit and will continue to do so for ever. Even now, 7 years after the vote and 2 years after leaving the EU what has been done to exploit the "free" position the UK is in and capitalise on it? Nothing? Your government is actively working against you!

Wow, you have not understood what was going on, right? We are where we are, because the UK refused any sensible solution in the negotiations, so the EU just returned to default. What stronger hand? What did you want? Not the default? That was the point of brexit, according to you.

[Flyhighfirst]

Originally Posted by roll_over

Hopefully it will make tickets more expensive. The American carriers seem to be doing alright, their pilots too. The USA is a closed shop though, not like Europe.

The US is almost exactly like Europe. 51 individual countries with a somewhat overriding federal government. Under the constitution states are almost seen as individual countries.

[am111]

Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst

Originally Posted by roll_over

Hopefully it will make tickets more expensive. The American carriers seem to be doing alright, their pilots too. The USA is a closed shop though, not like Europe.

The US is almost exactly like Europe. 51 individual countries with a somewhat overriding federal government. Under the constitution states are almost seen as individual countries.

My understanding is that the 1500 hour rule drove up pay and conditions in the states. Prior to that Regional Airline pilots qualified for food stamps. I would suggest that we perhaps implement a similar rule over here but past me would not be best pleased.

And whilst the US mirrors the EU somewhat in its governmental structure, I would say that’s where the similarities end. For example, whilst there are cultural differences between states, they are in no way as varied as the countries of Europe. And the aviation sector is an entirely different beast.

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by happyjack

There are thousands of Brits working in the EU who have been sponsored by their employer to be there. Not so much in aviation I grant you but also prior to Brexit how many British pilots were working for Air France, Lufthansa, etc? They always protected their domestic pilot situation.

How many British pilots were working for the likes of EasyJet, Wizz Air, Ryanair and a ton of other operators based outside of the UK?

Originally Posted by happyjack

There are corporate operators on the continent that will still help with the required paperwork if they want you!

And how do mere mortals without a rare and expensive bizjet type rating get employed in the EU post Brexit, if it's so simple?

[Denti]

Originally Posted by am111

My understanding is that the 1500 hour rule drove up pay and conditions in the states. Prior to that Regional Airline pilots qualified for food stamps. I would suggest that we perhaps implement a similar rule over here but past me would not be best pleased.

And whilst the US mirrors the EU somewhat in its governmental structure, I would say that’s where the similarities end. For example, whilst there are cultural differences between states, they are in no way as varied as the countries of Europe. And the aviation sector is an entirely different beast.

The 1500 hour rule would work even less in the EU than it does in the US. In the US there is at least somewhat of an market segment that allows at least some to get paid while they try to get their 1500 hours. That market segment does not exist in the EU. As you so aptly noticed, the aviation sector is a completely different beast over here than it is in the US. And it has been different for a very long time.

[Contact Approach]

We ought to stick together really and not grow apart, is that not obvious. We are not politicians we are pilots and the last time I checked an A320 was the same regardless of what registration was painted on the side, our airspace is the same and so is everything else. C’mon guys… and don’t say you voted etc. i didn’t, im a European living in the U.K.

[am111]

Originally Posted by Denti

The 1500 hour rule would work even less in the EU than it does in the US. In the US there is at least somewhat of an market segment that allows at least some to get paid while they try to get their 1500 hours. That market segment does not exist in the EU. As you so aptly noticed, the aviation sector is a completely different beast over here than it is in the US. And it has been different for a very long time.

I’m not advocating for the 1500 hour rule but a recent post on Reddit gave me the impression that the rule was a knee jerk reaction to fix a non-existent problem. So whilst it didn’t really work in that regard, what it did do was create a pilot shortage that drove up pay and conditions.

Just to play devil’s advocate, most US pilots get their hours by instructing. If EASA were to implement a similar rule I’m sure the market for FIs would expand and with a glut of instructors perhaps less people would go to the states for their flight training. Probably no good for post Brexit Britain though, our weather doesn’t favour intensive flight training. Nor does government policy in regards to investing in general aviation.

[Contact Approach]

Yet all airlines fly into the U.K. everyday operating the same aircraft with identical crew training. Bizarre we can’t overcome this political shitstorm with common sense…

[Cat Techie]

Originally Posted by Contact Approach

Yet all airlines fly into the U.K. everyday operating the same aircraft with identical crew training. Bizarre we can’t overcome this political shitstorm with common sense…

Common sense went out the window in June 2016. Everything mentioned that made people like myself vote to stay in has happened. There are engineering jobs I cannot do as I have the right to work, but not the EASA paperwork to do so. Not going through the complete shitstorm of exams and hoops I had to do to get my ticket with type!

[enzino]

And that's the UK Government's fault (and decision), don't blame the EU for that.
It's also their fault if airlines can operate in the UK with non-G registered aircraft.

By the way, my operator's UK branch should accept UK license holder.

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by Whalejet

I don't think he is asking for more than the default. He's asking for equality. The UK gave the EU guys so many extra rights, without securing anything reciprocal.

Therefore, we find ourselves in a position of inequality, and unfair market conditions for the UK guys, even within the UK.

It's almost like if a union of 27 countries had greater bargaining power than a single country...

[Tsuchiya86]

I believe the EU operators in UK will have to transfer to a UK AOC and G regs by the end of '22, thereby ending this disparity.

[Cat Techie]

Originally Posted by Tsuchiya86

I believe the EU operators in UK will have to transfer to a UK AOC and G regs by the end of '22, thereby ending this disparity.

Is that for internal UK operations? Ruin Air are not doing so from now. I don't think international routes are affected as such. No carbotage rules broken.