Brexit the Enabler? Forgive my ignorance ..

[A320LGW]

Genuine question to those pilots who voted for Brexit. Do you feel in any way advantaged by it?

Personally I have been unemployed since C19. Yes C19 was the cause for losing my job, but had my UK passport been an EU passport I am sure beyond any reasonable doubt I would have resecured employment since. i have been auto rejected now from the running for 7 positions, 2 of which I literally had a shoe in the door until they seemed to cop my passport was not EU. Of the few UK carriers who have opened recruitment i have not even had a reply to my CV from them.

Amongst all this I do recall many pilots valiantly declaring Brexit to be the best thing that could possibly happen to British pilots. Forgive me for being so silly, but I'd be grateful if you could point out what benefits we are reaping from excluding ourselves from the continent's job market? Thank you

[excrab]

We’ve regained our sovereignty of course, so soaring inflation, shortage of skilled labour, loss of the right to travel or work in Europe, overcrowded food banks, huge queues at channel ports, shortage of truck drivers and of course pilot unemployment is irrelevant, obviously.

[excrab]

And the NHS crumbling at it’s knees, of course…

[thetimesreader84]

We have regained our sovereignty, you're correct. Which means for the first time In what, 30 years? Our elected masters can't shrug their shoulders and say "well, we'd love to do something, but the EU are stopping us, innit?"

Don't let them forget it.

[Kennytheking]

Let’s not forget the fact that you need 2 licenses to be competitive. But thank god you have control of your borders - if that’s what you call the current chaos.

[Giuff]

I am european from Italy, and i worked for 3 years in a company back in the UK.
Best 3 years of my pilot life i have to say.
Most of the senior colleagues were brexiteers, while the young ones were remainers.
Well, you know how the story went.
Now, sadly, both the senior (but not so to retire) and the young ones are still unemployed as far as i know.
That was a nonsense at all.
And now i can get an UK CAA license back too.

I hope someone will fix this mess, one day.

[NACUD]

Even JRM is now saying that Brexit was a mistake.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Yes indeed it’s been a massive mistake.

For pilots it’s been brutal. I now have EASA and have a parent who was born in EU land so am in the process of getting dual citizenship.

I count myself very lucky. For those without this opportunity options are out there but yes it limits you in an already very competitive market.

Sad to say I honestly hope the whole UK system now crumbles. I still have a Brexiteer friend who just denies everything blaming COVID on the whole lot.

[YosserHughes]

In the same boat, not at all helped by the pathetic stance of the UK government.
We now have British and European airlines, operating from UK airports and only hiring crew with EASA licences, the CAA have made the EASA to UK fairly straightforward, unfortunately the opposite can not be said.

It is my hope that when the 2 year grace period comes to an end there will be a shortage of experienced UK licensed crew however this is a hope and Im not sure how realistic it is, time will tell.

I honestly can't think of another group of workers that have been hit quite as hard as pilots and engineers over the last couple of years, add into this the continuous degradation of T&C's and all in all its a depressing state off affairs.

One can only hope that the sausage factories of Oxford and CTC are seeing a real reduction in guys and girls willing to risk 120k+ on this 'career', I think only when the feed of cadets dries up will the guys who have the experience be in with a chance of getting back to some form of decent renumeration, until then we're pretty much foo bar'd.

[Snr]

Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123

Sad to say I honestly hope the whole UK system now crumbles.

I have to say, that's disappointing to hear. I am a remainer, with no chance of dual citizenship, who lost their job at the start of the pandemic. For the past two years Brexit cost me multiple gigs as a ferry pilot as I was only able to get contracts to fly G-reg aircraft. It cost me the chance to apply for the rare EASA airline job that has appeared since, and reduces my bargaining power going forward (instead of having 100+ airlines I could work for, it's now less than 10).

However Brexit has happened, and wishing the system to crumble will only harm me and my colleagues further. I wish the vote had gone the other way, but it didn't, and now I have to hope that I was wrong and this leaves us in a stronger position going forward. To want to be right will only be cutting my nose off to spite my face.

[CASBO]

Thinking forward to how this plays out:

Once CAA pulls the rug on easy EASA to UK transfers at the end of the year, even if EU pilots can technically work in the UK were pilot to be added to the shortage occupation list, they would still need to surmount the bureaucratic obstacles raised by one of the least pilot friendly authorities.

If this leads to UK pilots commanding better terms and thus becoming more costly than on the continent, then operations will be offshored to EU bases or subsidiaries, eg Iberia Express not BA, or ACMI.

So my hunch is, some medium term rebalancing, but outlook fundamentally unchanged. The only winners are the faceless CAA bureaucrats.

[heavydane]

Ok as a EU national having been unemployed since Covid in April 19 my recommendation is to find something else than Brexit to blame. We have all been hit extremely hard. Actually its my believe that the demise of the professional pilots in Europe is because of EU, not Brexit. Look at lorry drivers, construction workers etc. conditions all driven down by EU and new member states desire to get rid of organized labor. Of course UK pilots should be able to work in EU and vise versa, right now You are being punished by the bikers in Brussels because they are terrified of who will try to leave next.

[nomilk]

Originally Posted by heavydane

Of course UK pilots should be able to work in EU and vise versa, right now You are being punished by the bikers in Brussels because they are terrified of who will try to leave next.

You must have missed the bit where the EU offered EASA membership, acknowledgment of professional qualifications etc. and the UK said NO.

[HOVIS]

Working conditions for EU lorry drivers are a hell of a lot better than UK drivers.

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by heavydane

Actually its my believe that the demise of the professional pilots in Europe is because of EU, not Brexit. Look at lorry drivers, construction workers etc. conditions all driven down by EU and new member states desire to get rid of organized labor.

Funny how most EU member states, including new members, have better labour laws than UK.

Turns out if you vote for billionaires, they don't like to see working people gain any more power, quite the opposite. Who knew?

Originally Posted by heavydane

Of course UK pilots should be able to work in EU and vise versa, right now You are being punished by the bikers in Brussels because they are terrified of who will try to leave next.

But Eastern Europeans should stay away from the UK, right? Wasn't that the whole point of Brexit? British people retaining all the rights, while get rid of those pesky Poles, Romanians, etc.

[HOVIS]

... and Ukrainians... (cough, splutter.... 🙄 )

[A320LGW]

Originally Posted by heavydane

Ok as a EU national having been unemployed since Covid in April 19 my recommendation is to find something else than Brexit to blame. We have all been hit extremely hard. Actually its my believe that the demise of the professional pilots in Europe is because of EU, not Brexit. Look at lorry drivers, construction workers etc. conditions all driven down by EU and new member states desire to get rid of organized labor. Of course UK pilots should be able to work in EU and vise versa, right now You are being punished by the bikers in Brussels because they are terrified of who will try to leave next.

When a pilot is on the cusp of a job offer and then has it pulled away due not having an EU passport, how on earth is anything else but Brexit to blame? When all British pilots (bar those of dual nationality) are suddenly denied access to one of the largest job markets in the world right on their doorstep, because the British government decided so, how is the EU to blame? This deflection sounds like exactly the type of speech that got us into this mess in the first place.

[Bergerie1]

A320LGW, You are absolutely right, it was blindingly obvious to all those of us who had worked on European aviation issues. The Tory ideological doctrine killed any involvement with EASA with the predictable results we see today. Why, I ask, did so many intelligent colleagues vote for Brexit?

[roll_over]

Hopefully salaries will go up in the UK because the market is more restricted. The EU just serves companies and governments in reducing salaries and working conditions in Western Europe.

[CASBO]

Originally Posted by roll_over

Hopefully salaries will go up in the UK because the market is more restricted. The EU just serves companies and governments in reducing salaries and working conditions in Western Europe.

What do you think the second order effect of UK pilots becoming more expensive will be?