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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 1st May 2020, 09:50
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Good point.
It is the job role that is redundant, not the individual. Of course, I'm sure BA's HR department is working overtime to discover a legal loophole that will allow them to redifine each job role.
Under redundancy legislation, it is always the role that is made redundant, not the person. There is no need to look for 'loopholes', because there are plenty of criteria that justify redundancy, set out in legislation. One key redundancy reasonableness criterion is the physical location of the role. This may be what is behind the talk of closing operations at Gatwick. It would be legally more straightforward to make all LGW-based employees redundant, because the base is closing (ie very hard to challenge the redundancy in consultation, or at an Employment Tribunal afterwards).

BA must offer ‘suitable alternative employment’ to anyone facing redundancy (as long as you have been working there for two years or more). It could offer new jobs at LHR, but with new T&Cs.

However, if you live in East Grinstead and work at LGW and face the commute to LHR in a new, less well paid, role, whatever is on offer might not be that attractive in terms of time and cost to the employee.

BA cannot force pay cuts on staff that breach terms of contract, unless the employee voluntarily agrees to it. Trying to frighten employees into accepting worse terms of employment by holding the axe over LGW operations looks to me like hedging bets. BA thinks it can either save alot of money if it gains agreement to worsen terms and keep (some?) of its LGW ops open, which it can always close later on, or close it altogether now and concentrate at LHR T5. Either way it slashes costs.

Given the corporate culture at BA, this really shouldn't surprise anyone. I wouldn't hold out much hope for anything more than statutory minimum payout either.

It's very tough being made redundant in normal times, but so much worse now. My thoughts are with those under notice. I know how gut wrenching it is.
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Old 1st May 2020, 09:57
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Donít think the Home Counties (what, why?), plummy middle England thing was relevant or well placed. Not likely to illicit sympathy or probably chime with many at that firm.

But outside the sentiment, meat and potatoes points are good.

Awful times.
Cliff Secord is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 10:15
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RTM Boy View Post
Under redundancy legislation, it is always the role that is made redundant, not the person. There is no need to look for 'loopholes', because there are plenty of criteria that justify redundancy, set out in legislation. One key redundancy reasonableness criterion is the physical location of the role. This may be what is behind the talk of closing operations at Gatwick. It would be legally more straightforward to make all LGW-based employees redundant, because the base is closing (ie very hard to challenge the redundancy in consultation, or at an Employment Tribunal afterwards).
I may have misunderstood it but was the letter not threatening redundancy for all cabin crew at both bases?
The Foss is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 10:18
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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This is truly awful.. I feel sorry for the pilots that left Flybe just before its demise to join BA.....


I simply cannot believe that during a global crisis a company is seeking to take advantage by screwing its employees and I canít believe WW stayed on to do it.
I know its show business not show friends but this is taking the piss!
I didn't think Virgin should receive a hand out but now I hope they do and WW is told to F$%k off back to Madrid.

No Chance they'll close LGW, Jet2 are probably already planning to open a base and buy some 787s from Norwegian
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Old 1st May 2020, 10:27
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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There was significant outcry when a certain Irish COO tried to do similar at the orange loco - so much so that senior government bods were 'aware'. I see no difference in this attack than in the former, and so I would hope there will be as much outcry / awareness this time.
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Old 1st May 2020, 10:34
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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A few key points . No one is flying . Zero cashflow . Ballot asap for an indefinite strike . Its got to be better than a zero hours contract for the poor sods left flogging across the pond at some ridiculous hour of the night .
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Old 1st May 2020, 10:41
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jamie2009 View Post


No Chance they'll close LGW, Jet2 are probably already planning to open a base and buy some 787s from Norwegian
I assume this was tongue in cheek. If not, what make you consider that J2 is immune to this carnage and ready to expand?
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Old 1st May 2020, 10:54
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Foss View Post
I may have misunderstood it but was the letter not threatening redundancy for all cabin crew at both bases?
It depends on who/where the 12,000 employees are that receive the individual redundancy 'at risk' letter as part of their 45-day statutory consultation. I've not seen any details of that letter or who's received it - if it's even been issued yet.
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Old 1st May 2020, 11:26
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Originally Posted by Driver airframe View Post
Ballot asap for an indefinite strike .
What good is that going to do at a time, when as you yourself acknowledge, no one is flying anyway.

They'd probably be grateful for the reduction in the wage bill.
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Old 1st May 2020, 11:48
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Panel3 View Post
Despite saying he doesn't want a bailout from the British government for BA, IAG (Walsh) has accepted a 1bÄ bailout for Iberia and Vueling from the Spanish government.
This is one of the most disgusting things Iíve seen throughout this whole debacle. How can they even think this is morally acceptable?
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Old 1st May 2020, 11:57
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Panel3 View Post
Despite saying he doesn't want a bailout from the British government for BA, IAG (Walsh) has accepted a 1bÄ bailout for Iberia and Vueling from the Spanish government.
Please let's stick to the real facts. The Spanish govt hasn't issued a bailout for Iberia and Vueling. They have just offered a credit line throught the ICO (Offical Credit Institute). That is money (liquidity), to avoid the companies collapse. This credit lines have better T&C's than the traditional banks or investors. This "ICO" credits have been also offered to hundreds of company through all the sectors in Spain.
Summing up: Spanish govt has lent money to Iberia and Vlg as a bank. Iberia and Vlg will have to pay back with a more flexible calendar and with less fees.
Markos. is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 13:01
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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BA have issued the letter to the Union that says clearly "all cabin crew, regardless of contract at LHR are at risk (listing all three contracts and the ranks of the crew under each contract), all 3 employment contracts at LHR will be removed and will not apply in future and a new contract will be issued and if crew do not sign it they will be dismissed from the business by way of Redundancy or Other Substantive reason"

They're making it clear that people will exit the business during a period of mid June to end December 2020 and that redundancy will be comply with statutory minimums and will not be enhanced due to the current environment.

It is clearly a premeditated plan, they've had sat on the shelf waiting for an opportunity to implement and being the low live beings they are they have chosen this moment, mid furlough, to implement and screw over the crew (regardless of whether they are EF, WW or MF) whilst paying Willy an additional £3m bonus.

The result will be, even for those that stay, a fully disgruntled work force, offering even poorer service than they do already, and I hope it is kept in the headlined long enough for the world to see them for what they are and stop flying with them out of principle. Hope the business fails big time.
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Old 1st May 2020, 13:05
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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world to see them for what they are and stop flying with them out of principle. Hope the business fails big time.
Brilliant idea. Screw ALL remaining employees thanks to the over zealous actions of the senior management as they try and reduce T's & C's to what exists already in many, many airlines. What a fantastic scheme.

Ever seen Monty Python? Syrian Suicide Squad? Similar level.
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 13:44
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Markos wrote:

Please let's stick to the real facts. The Spanish govt hasn't issued a bailout for Iberia and Vueling. They have just offered a credit line throught the ICO (Offical Credit Institute). That is money (liquidity), to avoid the companies collapse. This credit lines have better T&C's than the traditional banks or investors. This "ICO" credits have been also offered to hundreds of company through all the sectors in Spain.
Summing up: Spanish govt has lent money to Iberia and Vlg as a bank. Iberia and Vlg will have to pay back with a more flexible calendar and with less fees.
It's still money, a credit line, something to keep the 'wolf from the door' Willy 'dick waving' Walsh is on record that no help, at all, should be given to ANY airline. Utter hypocrisy, and his workforce is suffering because of it.
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Old 1st May 2020, 13:48
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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I think BA have opened the bottom drawer of problems they long wanted to fix and thrown it in. For BA staff worried about CV19 to receive this at this time is a worry. No mention of how many Directors are going to get the bullet I assume...
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Old 1st May 2020, 13:48
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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WW doesn’t care though because he’s not a normal human being, he lacks any basic empathy. In short he’s a psychopath. Unfortunately these are traits that are widespread in business nowadays. Don’t even bother asking what they think when they look in the mirror. They just don’t care.
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Old 1st May 2020, 13:49
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Fight fire with fire and go on the offensive.
Call a strike, ground the fleet, Pilots first and if CC and others want to join let them.
The country is looking the other way at the moment and aren't able to fly, so you won't hurt the man on the street, however you will hurt management who will be making a plan to get aircraft back in the air.
If T5 is closed, then they are really going to struggle.
Spunky Monkey is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 14:08
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
WW doesnít care though because heís not a normal human being, he lacks any basic empathy. In short heís a psychopath. Unfortunately these are traits that are widespread in business nowadays. Donít even bother asking what they think when they look in the mirror. They just donít care.
With the rise and rise of accountants running all sorts of businesses these days, when they're not loading unsustainable colossal amounts of debt onto company balance sheets, claiming it's "efficient", and thus consigning them to bankruptcy down the line (see eg Thomas Cook), employees are simply seen as a cost centre by CEOs with an MBA and their team of number crunchers. When they say "our employees are our greatest asset" they mean they cost the most and like any asset, when you don't want it anymore, get rid.

Many, many years ago I had a meeting with our firm's chief accountant who was demanding we cut staffing on a project because the company 'needed' to save money. I explained precisely why this was a very bad idea and what the consequences would be, including that we would be breaching the contract we had with the client for doing what he was demanding. He then simply repeated his demand to drop the headcount. I suggest he could save even more money if the business got rid of all staff altogether. I swear than for a second my sarcastic idea crossed his mind as a viable option.
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Old 1st May 2020, 14:13
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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There seems to be a problem on here that many do not seem to grasp the severity of the problem. It is irrelevant the callous management style exercised at the present time. BA staff must be completely aware of the situation and to many it has not come as a surprise. As for personal abusive attacks on WW, that achieves nothing. How do those on here assume that thousands of staff doing nothing can be kept on the payroll until things get better. As for the last post 'call a strike' that is nonsense and the one before calling WW a psychopath should be removed. If threaders cannot contribute sensibly then say nothing. Peoples livelihoods are at stake here!
HZ123 is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 14:16
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey View Post
Fight fire with fire and go on the offensive.
Call a strike, ground the fleet, Pilots first and if CC and others want to join let them.
The country is looking the other way at the moment and aren't able to fly, so you won't hurt the man on the street, however you will hurt management who will be making a plan to get aircraft back in the air.
If T5 is closed, then they are really going to struggle.
The fleet is already grounded so strike is no weapon at all. The remaining flights will be done by management pilots and pilots in their probation period. You should make alternative offers like ze Germans or perhaps an extensive part time option for the more senior (expensive) pilots. Play the press. Sociopaths like MOL, WW or Jeff Bezos and the likes aren't exactly loved at the moment.
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