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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 30th Apr 2020, 23:13
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK. East Mids.
Posts: 440
I know this is mainly pilot focussed...

But target reduction of over 4.500 from Cabin Services... Over a third of the CC workforce.

Tray Surfer is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 00:50
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,919
It is sadly the same story across the airline. Almost a thousand engineering jobs targeted, 120 LAEs earmarked for redundancy, no VS, no deals, If you don't like it you will be sacked and offered a new contract with hugely inferior t & cs. No one has even mentioned the new pension scheme yet. I'm just waiting for them to renage on that 'agreement' too.

I understand the need to make savings when losses are forecast but this opportunist swipe at long standing contractual agreements is sickening.

If BA mamangement read this, please tell me how the hell you sleep at night, or look at yourself in the mirror without loathing?
TURIN is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 02:36
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 72
My thoughts and prayers to all employees of BA. Here in HK (CX) we are shortly expecting a similar attack. Very troubling days for our profession. Probably will never be the same again.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 02:44
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 77
I wish you all the best- but just as a matter of interest, how much money has BA Pilots contributed to BALPA over the last 25 years. And do you think you are getting value for money !
Holer Moler is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 02:53
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Germany
Posts: 9
No!

Originally Posted by Holer Moler View Post
I wish you all the best- but just as a matter of interest, how much money has BA Pilots contributed to BALPA over the last 25 years. And do you think you are getting value for money !
Even before this crisis the answer was a resounding no. But they’re the only game in town, sadly. Which is why so many of us have remained members through gritted teeth.

Having just read BALPAs response to BA and in particular the signatory at the bottom, I am convinced this will be their biggest debacle to date. Despite stiff competition from previous cock-ups!

i couldn’t be more depressed.
Built4Speed2 is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 06:53
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns View Post
No wonder that Captain spent 30 years devoting his life to BA, the alternative would be staying at home with that wordsmith.. joking! Don't send the fun police after me... are IAG being cut-throat and extremely cruel? Yes. Is anyone outside of BA surprised? You certainly shouldn't be. My best wishes to all at BA and particularly to BALPA, they have a hell of a fight on their hands but now is not the time to waver, they are not just fighting for the pilots now, but for their own survival. If BA get away with this after the whimpering end to the strikes last year, Balpa will be dead and buried, and that is not good for any of us.
This is a serious time for us all but your first sentence has really cheered me up!
Thank you!
Edited to add, She’s wrong about Lord King. Ruthless.

Last edited by srjumbo747; 1st May 2020 at 07:41.
srjumbo747 is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 07:16
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,864
Originally Posted by Icanseeclearly View Post
My husband is a senior British Airways captain with over 30 loyal, devoted years of service with the airline. [yadda yadda yadda... - Airbubba]
Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns View Post
No wonder that Captain spent 30 years devoting his life to BA, the alternative would be staying at home with that wordsmith..
Originally Posted by srjumbo747 View Post
This is a serious time for us all but your first sentence has really cheered me up!
Thank you!
These TL;DR missives are a familiar part of the failing OGA (Once Great Airline) syndrome I'm afraid. Those Yalies at Pan Am would type similar prose by the pound on the old ALPA ASPEN message board three decades ago.

'Don't worry son, the government won't let Pan American go out of business.'
Airbubba is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 07:42
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,935
The second half of that "article" contained some truths but the first half......well at least I can confidently say it wasn't written by my wife.....

On that subject I must rush, I can hear her approaching. I was handed a list of jobs to do today and if she catches me on t'internet this early in the day I'll be finding out exactly what being sliced in half is like............

"Middle class, solidly Home Counties,"..don't make me laugh....

Mind you serious times and all that so the light relief was appreciated...


Uh o...
wiggy is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 07:54
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Meh
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by Tray Surfer View Post
I know this is mainly pilot focussed...

But target reduction of over 4.500 from Cabin Services... Over a third of the CC workforce.

Definitely worth highlighting. Simply lovely:

We currently have 6382 Worldwide crew members of which:
• 531 are CSDs
• 1,060 are CSLs
• 4,791 are Main Crew
We currently have 1853 Eurofleet crew members of which:
• 11 are CSDs
• 466 are Pursers
• 1376 are Main Crew
We currently have 6027 Mixed Fleet crew members of which:
• 852 are CSMs
• 5,175 are Cabin Crew
We are proposing to remove the existing fleet structure and create a simple, single group of cabin crew, with a single set of terms and conditions and operating to higher levels of flexibility. Those terms will include temporary layoff or short-time arrangements and a harmonised pay and allowance structure. We are proposing that any new contracts would have new policies including on disciplinary and grievance procedures, performance and absence management which would be non-contractual. We are also proposing some changes to the Redeployment Agreement (see below). The single group of cabin crew would undertake both long-haul and short-haul flying to a flexible scheduling arrangement and at a competitive cost base. The internal organisation structure of this division would have a simplified supervisory structure rather than the current varying arrangements across three fleets. If we are unable to reach agreement on these proposals as part of the consultation process (and we were unable to implement these proposals by relying on the reasonable changes clause in an employee's contract) then we would propose to give all employees notice of dismissal by reason of redundancy and/or some other substantial reason, and offer a proportion of them employment under new terms and conditions (see below). To be clear, everyone who is employed in the Worldwide, Eurofleet and Mixed Fleet teams is impacted by this proposal. The numbers and categories of such employees are set out above.
Headcount reduction - In addition to the structural changes described above, we are proposing the following headcount reductions:
• Non-supervisory roles - As set out above, across Worldwide, Eurofleet and Mixed Fleet there are currently 12,402 employees carrying out non-supervisory functions. We are proposing to reduce this number by 3,811.
• Supervisory roles - As set out above, across Worldwide, Eurofleet and Mixed Fleet there are currently 1,860 employees carrying out supervisory functions. We are proposing to reduce this number by 889
We will consult with you regarding the process for implementing the headcount reduction, but in principle we would propose to put all employees at risk of redundancy (or at risk of dismissal due to some other substantial reason) and determine who to offer a role in the new structure based on factors such as operational needs, skills and performance.

My bold.

Thanks to those who have volunteered in the NHS btw. You've done British Airways proud. British Airways on the other hand...
wannabe024 is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 08:27
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 741
You would be sympathetic to BA if they weren’t sitting on billions in cash, about to buy new aircraft and an airline in `Spain , as well as the free slots at lhr caused by other airlines collapsing. As it is, what they’re proposing is simply shocking. However, to the staff that have dealt with this management shower for years, it comes as no great surprise.
hunterboy is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 08:30
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: England
Posts: 88
Just over 1bn euro loan gurantees announced today for Iberia and Vueling. Could Willie be trying to force the UK gov’s hand?

https://otp.tools.investis.com/clien...newsid=1388986

Thegreenmachine is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:07
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by Thegreenmachine View Post
Just over 1bn euro loan gurantees announced today for Iberia and Vueling. Could Willie be trying to force the UK gov’s hand?

https://otp.tools.investis.com/clien...newsid=1388986
The UK gov have proved time and time again they no interest in saving UK airlines. This is despite all the money that it’s employees pay in taxes each year.
RJ100 is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:17
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,935
Originally Posted by RJ100 View Post
The UK gov have proved time and time again they no interest in saving UK airlines. This is despite all the money that it’s employees pay in taxes each year.
In recent history I don't think HMG have ever shown any major interest in saving or protecting any strategic industry ... For reasons I cannot fathom they seem to have bought into a version of the free market that is so laissez faire/devil take the hindmost that it can even make our American cousins look like socialists.

I reckon some MPs and Ministers might finally notice something has changed when they get lobbied by their mates when they finally realise they cannot get to Grand Cayman direct from London anymore....

Ooooh quick, back to work
wiggy is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:34
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL390
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Originally Posted by RJ100 View Post
The UK gov have proved time and time again they no interest in saving UK airlines. This is despite all the money that it’s employees pay in taxes each year.
The cheap loan is available to BA regardless of whether the government is interested in bailing out airlines or not. The fact that it's not been applied for suggests that (1) it's considerably more expensive to make people redundant in Spain and (2) that this is an opportunity being seized to deal with terms and conditions at the company once and for all.
Fursty Ferret is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:34
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Here and there
Posts: 12
Haven't they provided loans to Wizz and Easy already? The loan to IB and Vueling just shows that they're not above taking loans anymore. Time for the UK gov to start asking questions to the IAG board.
5000psi is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:47
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: my cockpit
Posts: 173
https://www.godsavethepoints.com/bri...people-problem

which should raise the question about social responsibility for corporations. Is it right to leave 12000 families in dire situations at the worst time, only to prove which CEO owns the biggest c*ck around town ? Where do you set the limits of capitalism ? Is Willie Walsh going to cash in massive bonuses out of such a bold move ?

we are back in 1800s.
FRying is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:49
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by The Foss View Post
Is that even legal? Making people redundant then rehiring them to do the same job with a completely different contract?
Good point.
It is the job role that is redundant, not the individual. Of course, I'm sure BA's HR department is working overtime to discover a legal loophole that will allow them to redifine each job role.
TURIN is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 09:52
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Home Counties
Posts: 38
I love working for BA, the people I have flown with for the last two years have been brilliant. However if I found out tomorrow that our managers are actually a race of giant space lizards wearing human skin suits I wouldn't really be shocked...

IAG is a corporation, it exists to make money and that is it. A cold blooded ruthless drive for total domination of the market with minimum costs across the board has to be the aim of any CEO in any industry. It has no empathy for any of us, 'solid home counties' or not. Managers who dont get with the program would be quickly removed. Look at what happened to SR and CM. There is no point getting angry or upset, save your energy for working out how to move on from this horrible mess. The only thing we can do is to get behind the union and try and negotiate to save our jobs. If you don't like what BALPA are doing put yourself forward and help out. When I was a soldier the sediment was you either lead, follow or get out of the way.
Capewell is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 10:01
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: England
Posts: 112
From a relative `nobody`, but someone who is passionate about flying and aviation (and a former pilot): my sincere best wishes to everybody out there, and their families, in these turbulent times. I pray that eventually there might be a happy outcome.
Stanley Eevil is offline  
Old 1st May 2020, 10:39
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,258
It's using the crisis as the basis for a massive 'land grab' and the ability to push through a full 'wish list' combination using the Covid 19 crisis as cover.

The Cabin Crew letter is, in my opinion, frankly brutal. They know that they will chop the majority of WW and EF crew with this. There is little or no way that those employees on those contracts will do the same work for the remuneration given by what will effectively be 'the Gatwick' contract. The demise of the service industries across the UK will give rise to a willing flow of applicants who can be easily and quickly trained up to become part of this new, 'efficient' workforce. Again, nothing they could have pushed through without the pandemic as the available group of recruits wouldn't have been there or simply wouldn't accept a slave driven, zero hours contract. Totally opportunistic.

As for Schedule K and Gatwick, it doesn't take much of a leap to see what WW is after especially given his interest in Norwegian in the past. Kill off Schedule K, as called for already, close down the base at Gatwick, hostile buyout of NAS UK operation. Repaint, re-brand as British Airways Holidays and you have a set up SH/LH hub and spoke operation using new 737's and 787's. Add in the ability to restructure the debt down to 1-1.5% and the already existing BA back office and services structure and you have a neat, cheap low-cost holiday carrier branded in BA colours. Only if you can get rid of that pesky Scheduling agreement though.

The rest is all the 'stuff' that as annoyed the senior management for years as they pick and choose what parts of the 'legacy' agreements suit their current agenda. Absence and sickness management? A desperately needed amendment during a pandemic!

Even O'Leary reckons the SH market will recover within 2 years and he's normally the pessimistic one! So El Macho claiming 'several' years for LH whilst all the business travelers are already fed up working from home with Skype/Zoom/Team etc. and missing their lunches, dinners, bars and expense accounts during meetings seems more targeted toward scaremongering the staff than reality. He's never had the business acumen to see that far forward so why start now?

BA provided almost 80% of IAG's combined profit last financial year. What a great idea going forward this won't be. Relationship reset? Well I suppose it is in a way.
Wirbelsturm is offline  

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