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BA to Virgin

Old 11th Dec 2019, 00:47
  #1 (permalink)  
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BA to Virgin

Hi All,

Iím currently a junior LH P2 at BA and can honestly say Iím really not happy with it. The people I fly with are great, but I find that the company is toxic and the rosters untenable. As it stands Iím looking to jump ship and Virgin seems like the obvious choice as I like doing LH.

Iíve done a fair bit of research on life at Virgin, but as a lot less people are moaning about it on here, and I donít know any other VS pilots, itís quite hard for me to paint a full picture. Are there any VS pilots here that could clear some things up for me? (Even better if itís someone whoís done a BA-VS move). In particular Iíve got the following qís:

1: How are the rosters and what dictates taken a 3rd (and 4th?) pilot? I know about the 750 limit and rotating seniority, but not much more than that.

2: How is crew interaction? Is there an obvious FD/CC split or do people socialise and act as a whole crew

3: Iíve read rumours about a B pay scale, have these materialised and would I likely be recruited into it if so?

4: How easy is it to commute and how does staff travel work?

and any other insights/info you can give would be greatly appreciated!

ATB


HardLanding1 is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2019, 02:31
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So you went from TUI 787 to BA 320 - are you after the holly grail of Aviation?
If I was VS i'd be thinking do I want you....
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 03:16
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
So you went from TUI 787 to BA 320 - are you after the holly grail of Aviation?
If I was VS i'd be thinking do I want you....
Thatís some nice positive feedback youíre giving.. Think ďHardLanding1Ē will really value your input!
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 05:04
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
So you went from TUI 787 to BA 320 - are you after the holly grail of Aviation?
If I was VS i'd be thinking do I want you....
though he/ she said they were BA LH..

i too would be interested in an answer to the OP
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 06:12
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Originally Posted by GKOC41 View Post
So you went from TUI 787 to BA 320 - are you after the holly grail of Aviation?
..
He/she said they were...” LH”...i.e. Long haul..

Leaving opinions about management aside the OP wouldn’t be the first person at BA considering looking for a Holy Grail, that probably being defined as an airline that doesn’t roster an under established pilot work force using JSS....

A lot of people are finding it pretty grim and from what I have heard some are considering their options, especially those newish joiners yet to be shackled to BA by increasing seniority.

I reckon there will be more than a few paying attention to this thread.







Last edited by wiggy; 11th Dec 2019 at 07:36.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 10:36
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


He/she said they were...Ē LHĒ...i.e. Long haul..

Leaving opinions about management aside the OP wouldnít be the first person at BA considering looking for a Holy Grail, that probably being defined as an airline that doesnít roster an under established pilot work force using JSS....

A lot of people are finding it pretty grim and from what I have heard some are considering their options, especially those newish joiners yet to be shackled to BA by increasing seniority.

I reckon there will be more than a few paying attention to this thread.


Maybe he/she was offered LH then changed to 320? Any decent recruiter will ask the same questions as TUI gave that LH option on 787 also.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:02
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Originally Posted by Twiglet1 View Post
Maybe he/she was offered LH then changed to 320? Any decent recruiter will ask the same questions as TUI gave that LH option on 787 also.


Originally Posted by HardLanding1 View Post
Hi All,

Iím currently a junior LH P2 at BA and can honestly say Iím really not happy with it. The people I fly with are great, but I find that the company is toxic and the rosters untenable. As it stands Iím looking to jump ship and Virgin seems like the obvious choice as I like doing LH.
How is there so much confusion around this point?
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:18
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Is there the ability to switch long haul fleets at VS?
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:30
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Itís what works best for you , I was similar to yourself and made the jump to Virgin and Iím happy with my choice .
By no means is Virgin AMAZING but it does have some good perks and the 750hrs is definitely the golden egg !
If you donít mind flying basically the same routes month after month then Itís not that bad
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 12:39
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Okay to clear some things up, although I’ve no idea why the assumption has been made: I haven’t gone from TUI 787 to BA A320 and I don’t see why it would make any difference if I had. I’m not after any holy grail. It’s just that I’ve joined BA, and I’ll happily admit, I probably did it with rose tinted glasses, and I’ve since found out that it doesn’t work for me at all, so I want to move, nothing more, nothing less.

Wiggy has pretty much hit the nail on the head, it mostly comes down to JSS, and I know for sure I’m not the only one.


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Old 11th Dec 2019, 13:55
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Hardlanding,

Iím in the same boat as you. Currently very junior on the a320 based out of Gatwick and looking at jumping ship to Virgin. You mention that most folk are fine to fly with. Whilst I agree with this statement, I canít help but notice that it is very noticable when flying with a skipper who is ex easyJet, Monarch, TUI etc. The atmosphere and day just tends to be a little bit more relaxed and enjoyable. Just an observation Iíve personally made...

How long does it take to for a Manchester base? Ive searched everywhere but canít find an answer to this. Also, Iíve read recently that Virgin are looking to expand operations out of Manchester significantly and take a lot of the Thomas cook slots and that Virgin see MAN as their potential second hub? Also, Iím interested to know more about this pay B scale too? What is the current take home for a new FO approximately (as it stands not inc the B scale).

A couple of example rosters for different fleets would be great to see too if available.

Cheers in advance.

Any help or info is much appreciated.



Originally Posted by HardLanding1 View Post
Hi All,

Iím currently a junior LH P2 at BA and can honestly say Iím really not happy with it. The people I fly with are great, but I find that the company is toxic and the rosters untenable. As it stands Iím looking to jump ship and Virgin seems like the obvious choice as I like doing LH.

Iíve done a fair bit of research on life at Virgin, but as a lot less people are moaning about it on here, and I donít know any other VS pilots, itís quite hard for me to paint a full picture. Are there any VS pilots here that could clear some things up for me? (Even better if itís someone whoís done a BA-VS move). In particular Iíve got the following qís:

1: How are the rosters and what dictates taken a 3rd (and 4th?) pilot? I know about the 750 limit and rotating seniority, but not much more than that.

2: How is crew interaction? Is there an obvious FD/CC split or do people socialise and act as a whole crew

3: Iíve read rumours about a B pay scale, have these materialised and would I likely be recruited into it if so?

4: How easy is it to commute and how does staff travel work?

and any other insights/info you can give would be greatly appreciated!

ATB


aot549566 is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2019, 16:15
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So trying to cut through the BS that has been spouted after Hardlanding1 asked a simple question.

750 hrs is the standard contract, part time may be available further down the road

Third pilot on trips with Block time greater than 9hr 30min. 4th pilot evaporated years ago.

If you are airbus qualified you will go airbus fleet, likewise Boeing.

Airbus Fleet currently A333/A332 and A350 coming into service now. From approx 2021 all A330s being replaced with A330 Neo.

Many people commute, but very dependent on which fleet and how many trips you have in a month. I commuted from North of M62 for 12 years, easier to do when you're younger!
Staff travel after 6 months and too much to cover here!
Boeing Fleet, A few 744s left, not sure how long they have got, rumours of extensions. Rest of the Fleet 787.

787s have the better long haul destinations with longer lay overs. Airbus shorter trips, generally one nighters but a few longer ones. A350 will have a mix of longer and shorter trips and we are planned to be single fleet A330/350, not sure yet how that will work out.

FD/CC socially still good but not as mad as it used to be......probably a good thing! Compared with what I have heard 100% better than BA, but as I have never experienced BA I can't categorically comment.

If you have less than 3000hrs you may start on a lower salary than last year due to the intro of 2 new lower pay scales. Not a B scale.

No job is perfect, its horses for courses and this old horse has been quite happy for 16 years.

Hope that helps and good luck.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 16:40
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Originally Posted by 3wings View Post
So trying to cut through the BS that has been spouted after Hardlanding1 asked a simple question.

750 hrs is the standard contract, part time may be available further down the road

Third pilot on trips with Block time greater than 9hr 30min. 4th pilot evaporated years ago.

If you are airbus qualified you will go airbus fleet, likewise Boeing.

Airbus Fleet currently A333/A332 and A350 coming into service now. From approx 2021 all A330s being replaced with A330 Neo.

Many people commute, but very dependent on which fleet and how many trips you have in a month. I commuted from North of M62 for 12 years, easier to do when you're younger!
Staff travel after 6 months and too much to cover here!
Boeing Fleet, A few 744s left, not sure how long they have got, rumours of extensions. Rest of the Fleet 787.

787s have the better long haul destinations with longer lay overs. Airbus shorter trips, generally one nighters but a few longer ones. A350 will have a mix of longer and shorter trips and we are planned to be single fleet A330/350, not sure yet how that will work out.

FD/CC socially still good but not as mad as it used to be......probably a good thing! Compared with what I have heard 100% better than BA, but as I have never experienced BA I can't categorically comment.

If you have less than 3000hrs you may start on a lower salary than last year due to the intro of 2 new lower pay scales. Not a B scale.

No job is perfect, its horses for courses and this old horse has been quite happy for 16 years.

Hope that helps and good luck.
what he said
Riskybis is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2019, 20:54
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Join Date: May 2002
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Same boat as the OP and looking to move ASAP.

BA have lost me with the actions they took against us during the strike. Now I treat it as a purely transactional relationship - come in fly the ridiculous 6 trips a month and go home. Nothing else. Itís a toxic atmosphere and it wonít change anytime soon. A real shame.

Wodka is offline  
Old 11th Dec 2019, 22:29
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Originally Posted by 3wings View Post
So trying to cut through the BS that has been spouted after Hardlanding1 asked a simple question.

750 hrs is the standard contract, part time may be available further down the road

Third pilot on trips with Block time greater than 9hr 30min. 4th pilot evaporated years ago.

If you are airbus qualified you will go airbus fleet, likewise Boeing.

Airbus Fleet currently A333/A332 and A350 coming into service now. From approx 2021 all A330s being replaced with A330 Neo.

Many people commute, but very dependent on which fleet and how many trips you have in a month. I commuted from North of M62 for 12 years, easier to do when you're younger!
Staff travel after 6 months and too much to cover here!
Boeing Fleet, A few 744s left, not sure how long they have got, rumours of extensions. Rest of the Fleet 787.

787s have the better long haul destinations with longer lay overs. Airbus shorter trips, generally one nighters but a few longer ones. A350 will have a mix of longer and shorter trips and we are planned to be single fleet A330/350, not sure yet how that will work out.

FD/CC socially still good but not as mad as it used to be......probably a good thing! Compared with what I have heard 100% better than BA, but as I have never experienced BA I can't categorically comment.

If you have less than 3000hrs you may start on a lower salary than last year due to the intro of 2 new lower pay scales. Not a B scale.

No job is perfect, its horses for courses and this old horse has been quite happy for 16 years.

Hope that helps and good luck.
Thanks that's exactly the answer I was looking for, cheers for your help.
HardLanding1 is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:20
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Quite a few unhappy pilots at BA, many looking for a way out. That would be unheard of 20 years ago.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 06:47
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LHS 320, exhausted and fed up. I consider leaving but keep on doing nothing. As the time passes it gets harder to leave. If you are going to jump then do it now. Donít end up stuck through fear of leaving for something else.

Hopefully the ďrelationship resetĒ will help.........

JSS is a disaster, easily working 15% more with exhausting trip constructions of 6 day blocks of early starts. All I ask for is a max 5 day block and in the last two months all my blocks are 6 days.

Jet2 DEC A321........
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 07:23
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
LHS 320, exhausted and fed up. I consider leaving but keep on doing nothing. As the time passes it gets harder to leave. If you are going to jump then do it now. Donít end up stuck through fear of leaving for something else.

Hopefully the ďrelationship resetĒ will help.........

JSS is a disaster, easily working 15% more with exhausting trip constructions of 6 day blocks of early starts. All I ask for is a max 5 day block and in the last two months all my blocks are 6 days.

Jet2 DEC A321........
RHS LH 5 Years in......totally fed up. The lack of a home life and missing my kids growing up as a result of the seriously unbalanced work / home relationship is rapidly reaching breaking point. Trip - 2 days off - Trip 2 days off with almost every weekend at work is unsustainable. Yes the money is ok, the pension is good and most people I fly with are really good guys (and girls) but at what cost, burning out in my 50's? I'm starting to look at part time options but concerned by the hit my pension will take in the long run bearing in mind I'm only in my early 30's. Who on earth used to NEED to go part time in their 30's prior to JSS!

I've got a couple of mates waiting to start at VS who were caught up in the demise of TCX and I have to say it's becoming very very tempting before I get stuck with the golden handcuffs at Big Airways.

Bex - I was a very happy bunny at J2! Give it serious thought and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

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Old 12th Dec 2019, 08:59
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Originally Posted by HardLanding1 View Post
Thanks that's exactly the answer I was looking for, cheers for your help.

I have relatives in both BA LH and VS.]
Definitely less hours flown in VS and friendly operation, pay OK. Time to Command far less in VS, vs BA LH
Only downside I have heard from them, is acute roster instability in VS vs rock steady rosters in BA which only change with requests or agreement.
A330/A340 fleet every rostered trip in Nov changed, usually at last minute to a JFK n/s or Lagos. 5 Atlantic crossings in 24 days. Probably caused by 787 engine troubles and extended unplanned A340 use until Summer 2020. (Apparently few Airbus pilots are A340 rated, so get stuck with JFK and Lagos)
Presumably rosters will improve with A350 introduction.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 12th Dec 2019, 09:45
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Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
LHS 320, exhausted and fed up. I consider leaving but keep on doing nothing. As the time passes it gets harder to leave. If you are going to jump then do it now. Don’t end up stuck through fear of leaving for something else.

Hopefully the “relationship reset” will help.........

JSS is a disaster, easily working 15% more with exhausting trip constructions of 6 day blocks of early starts. All I ask for is a max 5 day block and in the last two months all my blocks are 6 days.

Jet2 DEC A321........
Bex, Come to Jet2

Just under 600 hours LHS this year at one of the rapidly growing bases, thanks to decent leave bids. Back home every night and everyone is a pleasure to work with. It’s not perfect but striving to improve things for the pilot workforce.
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