BA to Virgin

[ShineOn]

How many days off at home each month for a long haul junior FO (say first 5 years) at VS versus BA?

[MikeAlpha320]

This is all if you can get a response from zenon!

[funkyt111]

Can somebody please explain the situation with the Manchester base and future expansion out of Manchester?
Also what’s the take home pay for year 1 on current pay scale?

Cheers folks.

[stable_checked]

Originally Posted by bex88

LHS 320, exhausted and fed up. I consider leaving but keep on doing nothing. As the time passes it gets harder to leave. If you are going to jump then do it now. Don’t end up stuck through fear of leaving for something else.

Hopefully the “relationship reset” will help.........

JSS is a disaster, easily working 15% more with exhausting trip constructions of 6 day blocks of early starts. All I ask for is a max 5 day block and in the last two months all my blocks are 6 days.

Jet2 DEC A321........

care to share you roster?

[DCT_ELSIR]

Originally Posted by funkyt111

Can somebody please explain the situation with the Manchester base and future expansion out of Manchester?
Also what’s the take home pay for year 1 on current pay scale?

Cheers folks.

I'm also very interested in the answers to both of these questions. Thanks for any info.

[Riskybis]

Originally Posted by DCT_ELSIR

I'm also very interested in the answers to both of these questions. Thanks for any info.

with the full 6% (15% return from company) on my year one salary i was taking home around £4200 , this doesn’t change that much as it is fixed flight pay , I don’t know anything about the Manchester plans

[bex88]

Stable checked..........Ibid will let you see all the rosters. Rolling total for the year is 820hr, up from around 700.

Just look for the roster full of 6 day blocks. All early with one report after 6am so it’s legal. The volume of work is no more than anyone else it is just how the work is awarded. You will hear people complain about a lack of weekends off, I actually find I get more weekends off under JSS than bid line. I don’t even ask for them. The variety of flying is better too. Why it can’t follow a simple max five days on and awards 6 days on every block for the last two months I cannot explain.

”biddable roster” is a recruitment point BA make. When you tell the system that it can award all work and it still pushes you into fall back you do not have a biddable roster.

[Busdriver01]

Is there any reason BA short haul couldn’t be rostered more like the locos? Ie max. 5 days on, followed by 3 or 4 days off? Other than, of course, the company wanting to get more work out of you..,

[midnight cruiser]

Loco style fixed rostering kind of works because there is no seniority, and everyone gets the same, more or less, and flights are crammed into the 5 on, in an optimised but fairly random fashion. Not sure how seniority would feed in - 5/5 for the top, and 5/2 for the bottom?!

I'm surprised BA hasn't completely split SH away from the seniority list, even away from BA all together, because it would be a hell of a lot easier to run it if it were like easy or Ryanair.

[pudoc]

For what it’s worth, as I didn’t understand it coming from a different airline where our allowances and pay was all paid together...VS yr 1 £4250 a month net but you wont use your net pay towards allowances like my previous airlines. Usually around $800 a month in allowances (assuming 3 trips a month on 787. Tax free.) which are loaded onto your virgin card for each trip as you depart. I usually, unintentionally, save about a quarter of that. No idea how BA works.

[VinRouge]

Originally Posted by pudoc

For what it’s worth, as I didn’t understand it coming from a different airline where our allowances and pay was all paid together...VS yr 1 £4250 a month net but you wont use your net pay towards allowances like my previous airlines. Usually around $800 a month in allowances (assuming 3 trips a month on 787. Tax free.) which are loaded onto your virgin card for each trip as you depart. I usually, unintentionally, save about a quarter of that. No idea how BA works.

Is it true that VS operate rotating seniority? How does that work?

What is is your average layover down route? Good social?

[funkyt111]

Originally Posted by Riskybis

with the full 6% (15% return from company) on my year one salary i was taking home around £4200 , this doesn’t change that much as it is fixed flight pay , I don’t know anything about the Manchester plans

that’s great thanks.

But there is a Manchester base right? Do you know how long it takes to get a MAN base?


Cheers

[Riskybis]

Originally Posted by funkyt111

that’s great thanks.

But there is a Manchester base right? Do you know how long it takes to get a MAN base?


Cheers

yes there is a Manchester base but it’s almost a seasonal kind of thing . BUT they are going to make it permanent supposedly (especially after the demise of TC I assume)
to be honest I’m not sure really how seniority works , I understand that you can be in either A,B or C group which makes it fair for bids etc... if you are brand new . Although VS bid system is pretty useless
Layover length is very much fleet dependent , on the airbus it’s usually bucket and spade routes (Caribbean , Lagos etc) and usually min rest . 787 does more of the business routes like LA, SFO , PVG and they are 2 nighters and the occasional 3 nighter . Lots of thing are changing with the 350 and further Trent 1000 engine problems .

[pudoc]

Originally Posted by VinRouge

Is it true that VS operate rotating seniority? How does that work?

What is is your average layover down route? Good social?

As riskybis says. 2-3 nights downroute. Mainly long routes (far east, west coast, Brazil soon). You'll only see the east coast 2 or 3 times a year. Social is good. Never experienced it where we don't meet up with the crew for dinner. Sometimes that's all you'll get, sometimes there will be 10 of you cycling the Golden Gate. Most trips often have a whatsapp group to arrange plans. Anything less than 15 days off per month is what I'd call busy. 18 days off in the month isn't unusual. Can't speak for Airbus or 747 fleet.

Rotating seniority...when you join you'll be put into bid group A B or C. Rotates every month. Month 1 the bid priority will be ABC, month 2 BCA, month 3 CAB. Your position in the group is based on date of joining. A new guy will be bottom of their bid group, but for his/her bid they will have the 'acting seniority' as if they were in the top 1/3rd of pilots every 3 months and will only be at the bottom of all pilots once every 3 months too. The result is that guys with less than 6 months service can have Xmas off if their group was top for December bidding, but very senior guys may end up working Xmas if their group is bottom. A senior pilot who is top of the middle bid group may have had a chance of getting their bid whereas a new pilot at the bottom of the same group probably won't, so overall seniority still has a role. Applies for roster bids and leave (leave slightly different in how the groups rotate), normal seniority rules for commands etc. It's a fair system, everyone gets some form of life and I've never heard anyone complain about it.

[Pickled]

Remember with BA you are likely to bear the full force of JSS juniority several times over your career: joining, going long haul, even changing LH fleets, gaining a command etc. It is common for pilots to choose to remain in the right hand seat to maximise lifestyle. The rotating seniority system at Virgin considerably reduces the seniority gradient. It is wrong to suggest that “your turn will come” at BA, its all about (the luck of) timing, many will not become senior LH captains even after 30 years on the BA seniority list, in fact many will never ever be senior LH skippers.

[RexBanner]

Absolutely right Pickled. I joined BA at 35, the exact point that was my personal cutoff. Consequently to that I doubt I will ever break the top 1000 of the MSL, there’s just too many people senior to me and younger than me. It’s arguable to say that I might possibly achieve ten years of a Long Haul command (if I was lucky) but given that most of that time I would be amongst the most junior trash I’m leaning towards spending the entirety of my career in the RHS and at least benefitting from some seniority that way. If you want the full scope of a fulfilling career and enjoying seniority for a decent length of time in both seats in SH and LH then BA is a young man’s game, arguably over the age of about 28/29 it could already be too late.

[SissySkinner]

My biggest concern for Virgin over BA is probably the routes, the network doesn’t seem to be that big anymore. Can any airbus guys comment on this? With a long career still ahead of me I’m slightly worried I would get bored of doing the same 15 or so LH routes over and over again.

[bex88]

Now here is a radical idea BA. Seniority based on date of joining. Seniority as a captain based on when you passed your command course. Simples......

[Jumbo2]

Originally Posted by bex88

Now here is a radical idea BA. Seniority based on date of joining. Seniority as a captain based on when you passed your command course. Simples......

And the benefit vs the current seniority system is?

[bex88]

It would encourage people to take commands as they become available. It would solve the short haul P1 issue and potentially free up a more natural progression. That or leave it as it is and make long haul commands all Not suitable for first command.