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EK versus BA

Old 18th Jun 2019, 23:43
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dupre View Post
I am extremely junior (>90% down my list) and what makes it bearable is the swapping. I get nothing i want from JSS but can often get a good roster by swapping. It helps living close to base and being flexible.
Roster swapping does indeed help to mitigate the failings of JSS for the juniors. Successfully doing so however means being married to your iPad and obsessively checking every single open time notification to get something satisfactory (because let's face it, no-one's going to swap their midweek LCA for your weekend 2 day 6). For me as a junior, the hours I spend trying to piece together a sensible roster probably rise into double digits every month.

I don't know much about EK - the Middle East has never appealed (yet). But JSS is certainly making those in the lower third of BA's ranks (myself included) think long and hard about whether it's worth it any more. BA have historically always paid less than the competitors in the early years, but have instead offered lifestyle options and a decent pay-scale, pension and rostering system. I'd argue at least 3 out of 4 of those no longer exist.

Personally I think if you're young, and can afford to sacrifice 5 years of your life, BA might still be worth it in the long run - IF you want long haul. Bear in mind however - as mentioned elsewhere, the company want long haul trips to become 24 hour night stops in airport hotels. If that happens, there'll be no point whatsoever.

Last edited by FACoff; 18th Jun 2019 at 23:56.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 07:03
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BigGeordie View Post
Senior Bods have not control at EK. We do not have a bidding system, we have a "roster optimisation system". Optimised for the company that is, not the crew.

BA vs. EK? I can't believe anybody can even ask the question.
Because thatís how bad it has got at BA.

Guys have gone back to EK. Even if you donít know people personally just go on LinkedIn and can see it. Guys left BA for Jet2.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 08:59
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Roster swapping does indeed help to mitigate the failings of JSS for the juniors. Successfully doing so however means being married to your iPad and obsessively checking every single open time notification to get something satisfactory (because let's face it, no-one's going to swap their midweek LCA for your weekend 2 day 6). For me as a junior, the hours I spend trying to piece together a sensible roster probably rise into double digits every month.
A very, very good point!

Mrs. Dupre gets quite annoyed at the amount of time I'm glued to the ipad.

Last edited by Dupre; 19th Jun 2019 at 09:27.
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Old 19th Jun 2019, 09:50
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dupre View Post
A very, very good point!

Mrs. Dupre gets quite annoyed at the amount of time I'm glued to the ipad.
are other option is spending double digits hours on a trip which doesnít work for you. Shotgun approach to trip swaps seems to work well via iBid messaging.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 11:02
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post


Because that’s how bad it has got at BA.

Guys have gone back to EK. Even if you don’t know people personally just go on LinkedIn and can see it. Guys left BA for Jet2.
Attrition at BA which is not due to retirements will be negligible compared to EK. The numbers of those moving from EK to BA or at least trying to, will far outweigh any making the move in the reverse direction or those wanting to leave BA for elsewhere. Those that do leave BA to continue flying, will almost always do it for lifestyle reasons and BA trumps EK on lifestyle, irrespective of how upbeat you try and portray EK from a lifestyle perspective. The million dollar question is if this disparity will continue to exist in favour of BA pilots, in the years and decades ahead.
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 20:37
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Emma Royds View Post
Attrition at BA which is not due to retirements will be negligible compared to EK. The numbers of those moving from EK to BA or at least trying to, will far outweigh any making the move in the reverse direction or those wanting to leave BA for elsewhere. Those that do leave BA to continue flying, will almost always do it for lifestyle reasons and BA trumps EK on lifestyle, irrespective of how upbeat you try and portray EK from a lifestyle perspective. The million dollar question is if this disparity will continue to exist in favour of BA pilots, in the years and decades ahead.
Iíve never met an ex-EK pilot in BA though. Where are they?
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Old 26th Jun 2019, 21:14
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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I joined with an ex EK chap in 2015 on the 320, so there must be at least one........
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Old 27th Jun 2019, 08:32
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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A couple on A380.
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Old 27th Jun 2019, 21:19
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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If you fancy money, prostitutes and do not care about living in a dictatorship you choose EK. If you are British and aspire any form of family life you choose BA. if you are a European, and you do not wish to live in a 2nd world class system you donít go to either of them.

All jokes aside: do your 5 years in EK, get ur command, and then enjoy a far inferior package at RYR or Norwegian in a base you do not fancy or you just do the time in BA / Virgin / AF / KLM / Luftie / Ezy etc and go part time and enjoy life.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 20:27
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
If you fancy money, prostitutes and do not care about living in a dictatorship you choose EK. If you are British and aspire any form of family life you choose BA. if you are a European, and you do not wish to live in a 2nd world class system you don’t go to either of them.

All jokes aside: do your 5 years in EK, get ur command, and then enjoy a far inferior package at RYR or Norwegian in a base you do not fancy or you just do the time in BA / Virgin / AF / KLM / Luftie / Ezy etc and go part time and enjoy life.

I agree with your first sentence.

Second one already is not really correct anymore - e.g. RYR new CLA deal in Italy for instance is really not bad IF it is a base you want and you DO NOT need to commute. Fine for me, I enjoy 5/4 and a not really bad salary(actually a better one that I had during my fantastic time with Qatar in the other dictatorship due to a very very bad Euro-Dollar exchange rate many years ago).

If you join one of the other gigs you mentioned as an experienced skipper AND you make it really into the mainline(seems BA went already a bit down the drain) then it means you go RH seat for at least 10 years again HOW could that be anything ok financially but as well "quality of life wise"?
EZY might be ok(maybe a bit to much "british company culture" for a mainland european, but hey. Problem with EZY is the very limited availability of good bases so you would not need to commute back and forth between work and family - HOW would that make you enjoy life?

Very onesided review of yours I must say. RYR has it's defintive downsides BUT the 5/4 on your base that you are living at with your family(preferably Italy as it is pretty good tax and salary wise on a RYR contract), THAT is QUALITY of life. Every day at home, NO commute, good salary.

To be honest it is much more likely to get a base you DO fancy in RYR then it would be in any other company you mentioned. Simple as that. There are all the known downsides in RYR(my god, I buy a black trouser and use the white shirts of my previous employers, big deal), I always prefer to be AT HOME with my family and not anymore in bloody hotels all around the world. Again - THAT is quality of life. Who cares which paintjob the bird has, honestly. Grow up.
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Old 28th Jun 2019, 22:26
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Right Engine View Post


I’ve never met an ex-EK pilot in BA though. Where are they?
The few I know through mutual acquaintances that have left in recent years, generally seem to be on the 787 or 777 but that is perhaps not a surprise as they were on the 777 at EK. I can't comment for any 380 pilots who may have left EK.

I personally know one who is about to jump soon with another not far behind.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 03:55
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Tbh every airline is in a race to the bottom. Please someone tell me where the perfect airline is because I can tell you one thing itís sure not our legacy carriers in the UK. If you join BA long haul your more then likely end up with 5 trips a month with just 2 days off between trips. Not really that different from EK, albeit on a lot less pay. Ok you could argue that after gaining some seniority you may be able to gain some control. But who knows? The question I ask myself is if I stay at BA and wait it out it will take me 18 years for a long haul command whose to say management wouldnít have reduced terms and conditions even further, seems very plausible given their current record. BA management have taken away final salary pension and increased the pay scale timelines from 25 years to 35 years before you earn top salaries. Talk of moving to 24 hour layovers on routes where they can get away with it. What will they take from me in anther 10 years? Cathay used to be the airline of choice for many but now look at what management have done to that gig scale D has now been introduced as far as Iím aware hardly enough to live on in Hong Kong.

To those i would say earn the money whilst you can clear your debts and then look improving your quality of life. Flying 900 hours a year till your 65 Is not sustainable and unfortunately we are now the new generation of pilots who will be tasked to do this. Choose wisely and best of luck.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 06:20
  #73 (permalink)  
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On an EK roster how do you manage sleep? Is it doable or is it prolonged suffering? How often do people do controlled rest in the seat during midnight turnarounds?

Does anyone have figures for how much a person can expect to spend on food, going out and running a car in Dubai?

5 years into EK (assuming you havenít got your command yet), what can you expect the salary to be? How much would your provident fund be worth at that time?

thanks!!!
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 14:02
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Youíll get a lot of abuse with that username, Alex
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 18:57
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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The Middle East is sustainable for a few years. Save some cash, tick a few boxes and get the t-shirts. Then find an opportunity and join a European airline that gets you close or where you want to be.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 18:57
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Youíll get a lot of abuse with that username, Alex
Iím in awe. How has no one thought of that as a username before now???
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 20:23
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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10 years and then some at EK on the 777, and I can gladly as well as happily say I escaped with both my health and sanity intact.
Whilst BA might not be the place it was 10 to 15 years ago, it is night and day vs EK.
Plenty have left EK and ended up at BA, mostly via RYR or Norwegian rather than directly.
Do yourself a big fat favour, and if you have the option, choose BA over EK.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 21:26
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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It’s night and day now Monarch man but 24 LH layovers and all the trimmings set by other airlines like EK are on the agenda for management. It’s only a matter of time before they have us stopping in airport hotels too. Will you be so keen to sing the praises of BA then? Make no mistake the people running this airline are utterly contemptible. You can almost forgive the Arabs, they know no better. These people are from Western civilization and are corrupted, the worst embodiment of greedy capitalism there is.

Last edited by RexBanner; 29th Jun 2019 at 22:07.
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Old 29th Jun 2019, 21:44
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Rex, first of all NEVER underestimate living in a land where the rule of law is applied equally and fairly for the vast majority, secondly last time I checked, organisations such as BALPA have offered a set of checks and balances to the megalomaniac tendencies of various management types.
BA isnít perfect, but version 2019 still pi55es over EK for quality of life. If however you are a hard bruncher, you enjoy living in an unequal and unfair society where your fellow expat will happily throw you under the bus to further themselves financially with no recourse..check and balances or right of appeal, the EK is the place for you.
I wonít bother you with the other minor details with respect rostering, the theft of flight pay and overtime or the ďflexibleĒ approach to FTLs and operational policies.
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Old 30th Jun 2019, 03:56
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Rex

Until the day that EK embraces the concept of part time working, BA will always be a step above when it comes to lifestyle.

The Arabs are less of a concern, to be honest but the problem lies with the bureaucracy, lack of accountability and overall inefficiency that proliferates within the many 'empires' that have been created within the company, by those who are generally from the sub-continent. They will be responsible for leave allocation, rostering etc and therefore will have more influence over your day to day work/life balance. Many senior management positions are held by westerners here in EK, so greedy capitalism has existed for some time but it was simply exported to the Middle East and perfected, before it was exploited closer to home.

Never underestimate the power of a union, even if the overall effectiveness of BALPA may be a moot point for some of your colleagues.
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