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EK versus BA

Old 10th Jun 2019, 09:14
  #21 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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China is a goldmine if you stay and dig. But the commuting contracts are interesting more IMHO. 3 wks / 3 wks (no other HOL) and take home 13000 EUR (15k US) after taxes and expenses. Depends on one's family background and situation, that could be a choice like no other.

To relocate and live-in, the likes of Visatara in India seem to be better. For the last 10 years, part-time at EZY seems to be the best - in hope for a neigh base for the final five.

At the beginning of a career, the choices are far more muddied. Pick one where they will train you well enough to be competitive on the open market.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:14
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Is the ME a democracy where you can freely express your opinions without fear of reprisal? Does this matter to you?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 14:56
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MCDU2 View Post
Is the ME a democracy where you can freely express your opinions without fear of reprisal? Does this matter to you?
Is the UK a democracy in which the will of the people is respected by the government?
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 15:45
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
Is the UK a democracy in which the will of the people is respected by the government?
The UK is a democracy.
One aspect, namely Brexit is testing it in a way that would not be possible in many other countries.
The only country with a democratic model in the ME is Israel.
If living in a community that values democracy means something to you, don't work in the ME or China.
If money is the driver, then do.
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Old 10th Jun 2019, 22:03
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by tomuchwork View Post
Being a former QR(not EK but more or less the same crap) skipper. Agree on everything you wrote. You did not mention that many EK skippers went to european LOW COST(!) just to be back home and enjoy real life. The "Paycut" is a thing everyone has to decide for himself, I easily skipped that money for a chance to be back in much more safe and stable Europe, giving my family a more "real" life then that one of the typical Middle Eastern Expat. All a choice in life.

I never wanted "to turn back time" and felt sorry for leaving the middle east. God no. Most likely the best decission I ever made in my work life leaving the ME.

Again - I wrote that already above - nowadays choices are, IMHO(of course), much easier then, let's say 15-20 years ago. It was still a good thing to go to the ME at that time(and even then I did not like it and left), or the SWIRE group for instance. Now all of them are of no interest for any experienced (european) pilot except you seek adventure of course, that is a different thing. But career wise, money wise, no way.

The new gold mine is China(that I would personally never touch), safe and good jobs are in the US(for their citizens, would never go over there as well with all their "legacy" bs(no offence)) and Europe(for us Europeans). Really simple nowadays I think.

ME might be still a good choice for pilots from the indian subcontinent, asia, africa(as it always was). Much money to make for them compared to their home countries with similar "benefits" on retirement and health care. Always a point of view what is good and what not.
Add. point, @EK youĎll be bonded for 5 years, after the upgrade another bond. So youíre trapped for some time.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 01:29
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyboyUK View Post
Just a minor point EZY isnít a seniority based airline unlike BA.
If it comes towards bases it is. And that makes it not very interesting for me. No desire to spend my time in Portugal, Berlin or some Spanish Island(nice spots for a youngster, but if you want to be close to your family, not). So better be "in" as soon as possible.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 05:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Quality of life vs money (and the money isn't what it used to be that's for sure)......
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 06:35
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AIMINGHIGH123 View Post


Well people do it. If you can survive 10 years and plan well it used to be possible to have £1 million. Maybe not quite now with increased costs of Dubai.
Buy a house outright get to EZY LHS part time bid in. Kids education all paid for.
Guys out there who have done it.
Or as others have said China. Mega bucks if you can get through the medicalís
£1 million in 10 years, behave! Thatís saving £9 a month every month for 10 years! On the basis you will make about 6 a month as an FO I donít see this a a realistic figure. Plus China donít take FOís so for many itís not an option.

I have worked both at BA and QR and while itís fair to say I donít love either wild horses couldnít drag me back to the ME.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 06:47
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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With BA long haul there is the possibility of overtime pay.

If you live reasonably close to LHR and are willing to go any where any time you can earn an extra 10-20%
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 07:10
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Without wishing to turn this into a pi**ing contest. If it’s money you are after, there is money to be made in BA. Many pilots live abroad and pay local taxes, which depending where you live in Europe can be minimal. It won’t compare with China or parts of the ME, but you have the benefit of more employment protection.
The corporate culture, while we all complain isn’t what it was 20 years ago (where is?), is probably a lot better than the ME and China too. Flying with people of a similar culture and outlook is also worth more than money. I very very rarely return from a trip not having enjoyed the experience. I appreciate it’s easier when you’re the Captain though. Perhaps some junior F/O’s could comment?
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 07:51
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Enzo999 View Post


£1 million in 10 years, behave! Thatís saving £9 a month every month for 10 years! On the basis you will make about 6 a month as an FO I donít see this a a realistic figure. Plus China donít take FOís so for many itís not an option.

I have worked both at BA and QR and while itís fair to say I donít love either wild horses couldnít drag me back to the ME.
This is including the fund. Yes the bar/bars have moved. When my uncle left ME (admittedly it was 10 years ago) he took everything out and reinvested it all. No pension but he doesnít need it. Can you do that with BA pension? I believe you canít just withdraw your whole pension.
Currency valuation matters as well canít predict the future.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 08:19
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I think If you outright reject the BA course offer for another job, you wont be offered re-assessment in the future. That door could be firmly closed.

Ps. Please come back and tell us what you have decided!

Last edited by Yorkshire_Pudding; 11th Jun 2019 at 10:08.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 08:45
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tomuchwork View Post
If it comes towards bases it is. And that makes it not very interesting for me. No desire to spend my time in Portugal, Berlin or some Spanish Island(nice spots for a youngster, but if you want to be close to your family, not). So better be "in" as soon as possible.
Not true. Base transfers are not seniority based. Whoever goes on a particular list first has precedence, it doesnít matter how long they have been in the company.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 14:42
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Enzo999 View Post


£1 million in 10 years, behave! Thatís saving £9 a month every month for 10 years! On the basis you will make about 6 a month as an FO I donít see this a a realistic figure. Plus China donít take FOís so for many itís not an option.

I have worked both at BA and QR and while itís fair to say I donít love either wild horses couldnít drag me back to the ME.
Live out FOs in EK were taking home Ä10k a month including all allowances. It was up to the individual as to how much or how little they spent of their accommodation allowance on accommodation. I understand all new joiners must now take company accommodation and forgo the allowance.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 14:58
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PorridgeStirrer View Post


Live out FOs in EK were taking home Ä10k a month including all allowances. It was up to the individual as to how much or how little they spent of their accommodation allowance on accommodation. I understand all new joiners must now take company accommodation and forgo the allowance.
If you have a family you will get a company house, the houses are not really in Dubai, they are quite far from the centre in an estate that looks like a middle eastern communist estate. Hundreds of houses exactly the same with little or no aesthetic appeal. Good drone footage here:
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 16:07
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Good, if sick making, drone footage - of the wrong estate!

The real Meydan Heights Emirates Accommodation for Captains is much nicer - the villas are detached and huge - and the estate is landscaped and has pools and recreational facilities. And of course, accommodation and utilities costs are free
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 18:00
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by Enzo999 View Post


£1 million in 10 years, behave! Thatís saving £9 a month every month for 10 years! On the basis you will make about 6 a month as an FO I donít see this a a realistic figure. Plus China donít take FOís so for many itís not an option.

I have worked both at BA and QR and while itís fair to say I donít love either wild horses couldnít drag me back to the ME.
If you save £9/month you should have at least £1100. Not sure if that is enough to retire on, but it does sound achievable.....


To get a million in 10 years with 5% interest you need to save 6.7K/month.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 18:08
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Orvilles dad View Post
Good, if sick making, drone footage - of the wrong estate!

The real Meydan Heights Emirates Accommodation for Captains is much nicer - the villas are detached and huge - and the estate is landscaped and has pools and recreational facilities. And of course, accommodation and utilities costs are free
What about FO's and how long is upgrade for FO's in EK?
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 18:24
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Originally Posted by PorridgeStirrer View Post


Live out FOs in EK were taking home Ä10k a month including all allowances. It was up to the individual as to how much or how little they spent of their accommodation allowance on accommodation. I understand all new joiners must now take company accommodation and forgo the allowance.
I am always amazed at how different other peoples pay is compared to mine. When I was at QR about 5 years ago as a SH FO I was making about £5500 a month maximum of which I could transfer home about £4K if I was lucky. The base pay at EK is 26k AED and hourly pay is 60AED say you do 100 a month (lucky you) and thatís a total of 32k AED a month. Even at these unpredicted exchange rates thatís £6800 (and thatís at spot exchange rates not what you will actually get). Itís good money but a long way short of the 10k, unless you live in a flat share or a tent I canít see how you get to 10k a month.
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 19:13
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that this is something up for debate now, less than 10 years ago it wouldn't have been. Peope would have joined BA on a longhaul fleet as a no brainer. Then they had PP24, Bidline and less scrutiny relating to commuting. Less attractive option now apparently. Pretty sad state of affairs
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