EK versus BA
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 919
Likes: 6
From: uk
One aspect, namely Brexit is testing it in a way that would not be possible in many other countries.
The only country with a democratic model in the ME is Israel.
If living in a community that values democracy means something to you, don't work in the ME or China.
If money is the driver, then do.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
From: Escaped the sandpit 53° 32′ 9.19″ N, 9° 50′ 13.29″ E
Being a former QR(not EK but more or less the same crap) skipper. Agree on everything you wrote. You did not mention that many EK skippers went to european LOW COST(!) just to be back home and enjoy real life. The "Paycut" is a thing everyone has to decide for himself, I easily skipped that money for a chance to be back in much more safe and stable Europe, giving my family a more "real" life then that one of the typical Middle Eastern Expat. All a choice in life.
I never wanted "to turn back time" and felt sorry for leaving the middle east. God no. Most likely the best decission I ever made in my work life leaving the ME.
Again - I wrote that already above - nowadays choices are, IMHO(of course), much easier then, let's say 15-20 years ago. It was still a good thing to go to the ME at that time(and even then I did not like it and left), or the SWIRE group for instance. Now all of them are of no interest for any experienced (european) pilot except you seek adventure of course, that is a different thing. But career wise, money wise, no way.
The new gold mine is China(that I would personally never touch), safe and good jobs are in the US(for their citizens, would never go over there as well with all their "legacy" bs(no offence)) and Europe(for us Europeans). Really simple nowadays I think.
ME might be still a good choice for pilots from the indian subcontinent, asia, africa(as it always was). Much money to make for them compared to their home countries with similar "benefits" on retirement and health care. Always a point of view what is good and what not.
I never wanted "to turn back time" and felt sorry for leaving the middle east. God no. Most likely the best decission I ever made in my work life leaving the ME.
Again - I wrote that already above - nowadays choices are, IMHO(of course), much easier then, let's say 15-20 years ago. It was still a good thing to go to the ME at that time(and even then I did not like it and left), or the SWIRE group for instance. Now all of them are of no interest for any experienced (european) pilot except you seek adventure of course, that is a different thing. But career wise, money wise, no way.
The new gold mine is China(that I would personally never touch), safe and good jobs are in the US(for their citizens, would never go over there as well with all their "legacy" bs(no offence)) and Europe(for us Europeans). Really simple nowadays I think.
ME might be still a good choice for pilots from the indian subcontinent, asia, africa(as it always was). Much money to make for them compared to their home countries with similar "benefits" on retirement and health care. Always a point of view what is good and what not.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 286
Likes: 10
From: Europe
If it comes towards bases it is. And that makes it not very interesting for me. No desire to spend my time in Portugal, Berlin or some Spanish Island(nice spots for a youngster, but if you want to be close to your family, not). So better be "in" as soon as possible.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: London
Well people do it. If you can survive 10 years and plan well it used to be possible to have £1 million. Maybe not quite now with increased costs of Dubai.
Buy a house outright get to EZY LHS part time bid in. Kids education all paid for.
Guys out there who have done it.
Or as others have said China. Mega bucks if you can get through the medical’s
I have worked both at BA and QR and while it’s fair to say I don’t love either wild horses couldn’t drag me back to the ME.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 954
Likes: 64
From: england
Without wishing to turn this into a pi**ing contest. If it’s money you are after, there is money to be made in BA. Many pilots live abroad and pay local taxes, which depending where you live in Europe can be minimal. It won’t compare with China or parts of the ME, but you have the benefit of more employment protection.
The corporate culture, while we all complain isn’t what it was 20 years ago (where is?), is probably a lot better than the ME and China too. Flying with people of a similar culture and outlook is also worth more than money. I very very rarely return from a trip not having enjoyed the experience. I appreciate it’s easier when you’re the Captain though. Perhaps some junior F/O’s could comment?
The corporate culture, while we all complain isn’t what it was 20 years ago (where is?), is probably a lot better than the ME and China too. Flying with people of a similar culture and outlook is also worth more than money. I very very rarely return from a trip not having enjoyed the experience. I appreciate it’s easier when you’re the Captain though. Perhaps some junior F/O’s could comment?
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
I think If you outright reject the BA course offer for another job, you wont be offered re-assessment in the future. That door could be firmly closed.
Ps. Please come back and tell us what you have decided!
Ps. Please come back and tell us what you have decided!
Last edited by Yorkshire_Pudding; 11th June 2019 at 10:08.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,731
Likes: 53
From: World
Not true. Base transfers are not seniority based. Whoever goes on a particular list first has precedence, it doesn’t matter how long they have been in the company.
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Moscow Hotel
£1 million in 10 years, behave! That’s saving £9 a month every month for 10 years! On the basis you will make about 6 a month as an FO I don’t see this a a realistic figure. Plus China don’t take FO’s so for many it’s not an option.
I have worked both at BA and QR and while it’s fair to say I don’t love either wild horses couldn’t drag me back to the ME.
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: In a house
Live out FOs in EK were taking home €10k a month including all allowances. It was up to the individual as to how much or how little they spent of their accommodation allowance on accommodation. I understand all new joiners must now take company accommodation and forgo the allowance.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Transylvania
Good, if sick making, drone footage - of the wrong estate!
The real Meydan Heights Emirates Accommodation for Captains is much nicer - the villas are detached and huge - and the estate is landscaped and has pools and recreational facilities. And of course, accommodation and utilities costs are free
The real Meydan Heights Emirates Accommodation for Captains is much nicer - the villas are detached and huge - and the estate is landscaped and has pools and recreational facilities. And of course, accommodation and utilities costs are free
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 180
From: USA
£1 million in 10 years, behave! That’s saving £9 a month every month for 10 years! On the basis you will make about 6 a month as an FO I don’t see this a a realistic figure. Plus China don’t take FO’s so for many it’s not an option.
I have worked both at BA and QR and while it’s fair to say I don’t love either wild horses couldn’t drag me back to the ME.
To get a million in 10 years with 5% interest you need to save 6.7K/month.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 276
Likes: 1
From: South of the North pole
Good, if sick making, drone footage - of the wrong estate!
The real Meydan Heights Emirates Accommodation for Captains is much nicer - the villas are detached and huge - and the estate is landscaped and has pools and recreational facilities. And of course, accommodation and utilities costs are free
The real Meydan Heights Emirates Accommodation for Captains is much nicer - the villas are detached and huge - and the estate is landscaped and has pools and recreational facilities. And of course, accommodation and utilities costs are free
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
From: London
Live out FOs in EK were taking home €10k a month including all allowances. It was up to the individual as to how much or how little they spent of their accommodation allowance on accommodation. I understand all new joiners must now take company accommodation and forgo the allowance.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
From: Cloud Cookoo Land
Interesting that this is something up for debate now, less than 10 years ago it wouldn't have been. Peope would have joined BA on a longhaul fleet as a no brainer. Then they had PP24, Bidline and less scrutiny relating to commuting. Less attractive option now apparently. Pretty sad state of affairs
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Cutting grass on more unpaid leave
I am always amazed at how different other peoples pay is compared to mine. When I was at QR about 5 years ago as a SH FO I was making about £5500 a month maximum of which I could transfer home about £4K if I was lucky. The base pay at EK is 26k AED and hourly pay is 60AED say you do 100 a month (lucky you) and that’s a total of 32k AED a month. Even at these unpredicted exchange rates that’s £6800 (and that’s at spot exchange rates not what you will actually get). It’s good money but a long way short of the 10k, unless you live in a flat share or a tent I can’t see how you get to 10k a month.
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Moscow Hotel
I am always amazed at how different other peoples pay is compared to mine. When I was at QR about 5 years ago as a SH FO I was making about £5500 a month maximum of which I could transfer home about £4K if I was lucky. The base pay at EK is 26k AED and hourly pay is 60AED say you do 100 a month (lucky you) and that’s a total of 32k AED a month. Even at these unpredicted exchange rates that’s £6800 (and that’s at spot exchange rates not what you will actually get). It’s good money but a long way short of the 10k, unless you live in a flat share or a tent I can’t see how you get to 10k a month.
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat
if you take the accommodation allowance to buy a property in Dubai it’s close to 10k a month all in as FO, but you will need 100k cash towards the deposit and fees to get a small 3 bed. Almost all the allowance will be used up on the mortgage, high utility bills, insurance, compound management, repairs etc. But it’s a free house from the airline, and yours to keep! Not many carriers offer that, along with the executive car chauffeur drive to work. 😀
But how easy is to sell it when you decide is time to go home? And also putting 100k from your own money in such a unstable market... sounds discouraging. I'm not sure if I would take this allowance instead of the company accomodation. Not to mention, if you get in trouble in Dubai or EK, you will end up with a huge debt.
