swiss air + CRX Air = (swiss-lx)=0
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How does the present situation differ fundamentally from the situation with Sabena (gone backrupt) & DAT pilot corps?
At DAT, was not the seniority respected with ALL the Sabena pilots joining at the bottom? Somebody please correct if me I'm mistaken.
Why shouldn't the same principles, which is used by the majority of airlines around the world, not apply to ex-SR pilots?
I would be interested to hear the justification.
thanks
Aslan
At DAT, was not the seniority respected with ALL the Sabena pilots joining at the bottom? Somebody please correct if me I'm mistaken.
Why shouldn't the same principles, which is used by the majority of airlines around the world, not apply to ex-SR pilots?
I would be interested to hear the justification.
thanks
Aslan
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Quote Studi :
It was free choice of every Crossair pilot to make the 100000 Swiss francs debts and to work for Crossair Id never do this even though I also like flying. But people are different.
How do you think the big majority does it's flight training and finds a job ? Clearly you're ambition to become a pro is not there.
This is just one of the things I read from you and a few others on this topic that imazes me. Guy's you do not know were you are talking about and you should not be on an airline forum.
It was free choice of every Crossair pilot to make the 100000 Swiss francs debts and to work for Crossair Id never do this even though I also like flying. But people are different.
How do you think the big majority does it's flight training and finds a job ? Clearly you're ambition to become a pro is not there.
This is just one of the things I read from you and a few others on this topic that imazes me. Guy's you do not know were you are talking about and you should not be on an airline forum.
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There are 2 different ways to become a pilot. Some start flying just after school or apprenticeship. And some are studying before they start their career.
Now there are airlines (mostly the big ones LH, AF, SAS, KLM and so on) which are looking for people who have good education and a good talent in flying. If you go the straight way without going to a university level and start flying in a flight school somewhere and make your hours somehow, there is a difference, which pays at the end.
That’s why SWISS is paying for the former Swssair pilots more money than for the former Crossair pilots. Most of the ex LX pilots didn’t go through a selection process, which all of the major airlines have. So if they want to be the same as the ex SR pilots (and of course the rest of pilots at main airlines!) they should proof it with the same test all of us had to do!
Now there are airlines (mostly the big ones LH, AF, SAS, KLM and so on) which are looking for people who have good education and a good talent in flying. If you go the straight way without going to a university level and start flying in a flight school somewhere and make your hours somehow, there is a difference, which pays at the end.
That’s why SWISS is paying for the former Swssair pilots more money than for the former Crossair pilots. Most of the ex LX pilots didn’t go through a selection process, which all of the major airlines have. So if they want to be the same as the ex SR pilots (and of course the rest of pilots at main airlines!) they should proof it with the same test all of us had to do!
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Studi,
Thanks for your reply.
Your question assumes a fact that "it was stupidity". I wonder whether the pilots of the "majors of the world" (the big American carriers, CX, BA, QF etc) would consider such cases of seniority stupidity?
>>Swiss people tend to think on their own, not to copy something from abroad...
In this day and age where the use of the expert advice and experience of others opposed "to making one's own mistakes" is indicative of a proactive and professional institution, not to mention the notion of possible legal negligence for not using the most current procedures, advice, safety standards, your reply is maybe not so self flattering or valid?
Thanks for your reply.
Your question assumes a fact that "it was stupidity". I wonder whether the pilots of the "majors of the world" (the big American carriers, CX, BA, QF etc) would consider such cases of seniority stupidity?
>>Swiss people tend to think on their own, not to copy something from abroad...
In this day and age where the use of the expert advice and experience of others opposed "to making one's own mistakes" is indicative of a proactive and professional institution, not to mention the notion of possible legal negligence for not using the most current procedures, advice, safety standards, your reply is maybe not so self flattering or valid?
Last edited by Aslan; 4th Aug 2002 at 16:07.
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773829,
Two questions for your Sir,
>>should proof it with the same test all of us had to do.
Does all doing the same test, make the test anymore predicative of success? I far as I'm aware, the ex-SR selection system hasn't published validations of their selection procedures unlike, LH,SAS,BA,CX,QF to mention just a few. If the selection of SR pilots was so good, why did SR lie only in the middle of the safety statistics?
In my fairly brief but broad analysis of the media around the SWISS sagga, the criteria of SR selection/training/position was not discussed. At best, it seems that SR pilots managed to organise a back door deal to get their high salaries. Do you have material to suggest otherwise?
Two questions for your Sir,
>>should proof it with the same test all of us had to do.
Does all doing the same test, make the test anymore predicative of success? I far as I'm aware, the ex-SR selection system hasn't published validations of their selection procedures unlike, LH,SAS,BA,CX,QF to mention just a few. If the selection of SR pilots was so good, why did SR lie only in the middle of the safety statistics?
In my fairly brief but broad analysis of the media around the SWISS sagga, the criteria of SR selection/training/position was not discussed. At best, it seems that SR pilots managed to organise a back door deal to get their high salaries. Do you have material to suggest otherwise?
Last edited by Aslan; 4th Aug 2002 at 16:12.
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Hi 773829,
Maybe an aptitude or other kind of extra test many years ago is not that relevant anymore. What weighs more is the behaviour and performance of the pilots at the moment (both sides).
Anyway I think it is stupid and not coreect in many cases to see yourself as "God's gift to aviation" when passing the tests for a big airline.
Reading you're text I assume youre one of them and I am happy for you. But don't think you are all good and they are all bad.
Cheers
Maybe an aptitude or other kind of extra test many years ago is not that relevant anymore. What weighs more is the behaviour and performance of the pilots at the moment (both sides).
Anyway I think it is stupid and not coreect in many cases to see yourself as "God's gift to aviation" when passing the tests for a big airline.
Reading you're text I assume youre one of them and I am happy for you. But don't think you are all good and they are all bad.
Cheers
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Studi, I respect personal opinions and all but you are WRONG on almost all accounts!
I hate to get personal and prefer to stick to the facts but it will be hard.
1. Your remark on former-crossair's health: A few million loss, granted, almost all carriers had the same problem. Swissairs problem was in excess of a BILLION.
2. S-Air's debt is not 10 million, it runs in the BILLIONS.
3. Swiss winning 4 out of 5 points? NO, there was only ONE issue the court was qualified to judge upon, the discrimination-thing.
They lost, had to pay, and tried to convert their loss into an moral "win" by misinforming the press. This worked the first few hours after their press-release, but turned against them when all sides of the story were studied carefully.
4. As a non pilot, you dont want to play the preacher here, so why do you do so anyway???
5. A Car-mechanic's salary is not a reasonable salary for commuter pilots working for a "proud national carrier". And just to inform you: the minimum amount of years with the company to become a captain is now (thank you swiss) 5 !
About the ethics of the way swissair wiggled itself out under the creditors claims we can all agree or disagree, I don't care. But please lets stick to some basic facts.
Your claims of the precision of crossair/swissair pilots are not only based on hearsay but sound very biased.
Aslan just covered some more subjects quite well in his reply above. Compliments.
If you are not well introduced in the business, STAY OUT OF IT, or inform yourself better.
I hate to get personal and prefer to stick to the facts but it will be hard.
1. Your remark on former-crossair's health: A few million loss, granted, almost all carriers had the same problem. Swissairs problem was in excess of a BILLION.
2. S-Air's debt is not 10 million, it runs in the BILLIONS.
3. Swiss winning 4 out of 5 points? NO, there was only ONE issue the court was qualified to judge upon, the discrimination-thing.
They lost, had to pay, and tried to convert their loss into an moral "win" by misinforming the press. This worked the first few hours after their press-release, but turned against them when all sides of the story were studied carefully.
4. As a non pilot, you dont want to play the preacher here, so why do you do so anyway???
5. A Car-mechanic's salary is not a reasonable salary for commuter pilots working for a "proud national carrier". And just to inform you: the minimum amount of years with the company to become a captain is now (thank you swiss) 5 !
About the ethics of the way swissair wiggled itself out under the creditors claims we can all agree or disagree, I don't care. But please lets stick to some basic facts.
Your claims of the precision of crossair/swissair pilots are not only based on hearsay but sound very biased.
Aslan just covered some more subjects quite well in his reply above. Compliments.
If you are not well introduced in the business, STAY OUT OF IT, or inform yourself better.
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Interesting to see how this thread has begun to tailspin into minor issues....the big picture is whether "Swiss Intl Air Lines" is going to survive another year - and how.
Fact 1 is that the "Swiss" fleet size is now around the same as it was when SR's problem really began in earnest. And again, it's all about alliances. "Swiss" is too big to join an established alliance and too small to start one of its own (as SR tried with the known fatal outcome with "Qualiflyer").
Fact 2 is that whilst financial problems persist (such as revenue per pax per mile), there are spinmasters (such as a former chief editor of a tabloid, plus - more sadly - a government minister) who are trying to move the issue from a revenue problem to a cost problem and in the process have identified the former Crossair pilots as the major threat to the survival of "Swiss Intl Air Lines". The former tabloid editor with a name more reminiscent of a Stalinist Politkommissar has actually criticized the former Crossair pilots for wanting to use a court ruling in their favour against the company. (Now we can't have courts overruling the politically expedient thinking of the day, can we, and certainly not interfering with companies funded by the taxpayer....).
Fact 3: there's no readily apparent board strategy other than survival, and internally the company that was supposed to have been built on Crossair foundations has been turned upside down into a Swissair clone, with the same misguided long-haul ambitions (we must have free overseas flights for the boys' network, of course, wouldn't do to spend your holidays in Europe...).
Fact 4: the "virtual" chairman (how many times has he been seen in Basle?) is a hands-off guy and has, to date, provided absolutely nothing in the way of an enlightened strategy, let alone a vision with which the company and its employees could identify.
Anyone taking bets on when the next grounding (as a result of industrial action or lack of operating funds) will happen?
Fact 1 is that the "Swiss" fleet size is now around the same as it was when SR's problem really began in earnest. And again, it's all about alliances. "Swiss" is too big to join an established alliance and too small to start one of its own (as SR tried with the known fatal outcome with "Qualiflyer").
Fact 2 is that whilst financial problems persist (such as revenue per pax per mile), there are spinmasters (such as a former chief editor of a tabloid, plus - more sadly - a government minister) who are trying to move the issue from a revenue problem to a cost problem and in the process have identified the former Crossair pilots as the major threat to the survival of "Swiss Intl Air Lines". The former tabloid editor with a name more reminiscent of a Stalinist Politkommissar has actually criticized the former Crossair pilots for wanting to use a court ruling in their favour against the company. (Now we can't have courts overruling the politically expedient thinking of the day, can we, and certainly not interfering with companies funded by the taxpayer....).
Fact 3: there's no readily apparent board strategy other than survival, and internally the company that was supposed to have been built on Crossair foundations has been turned upside down into a Swissair clone, with the same misguided long-haul ambitions (we must have free overseas flights for the boys' network, of course, wouldn't do to spend your holidays in Europe...).
Fact 4: the "virtual" chairman (how many times has he been seen in Basle?) is a hands-off guy and has, to date, provided absolutely nothing in the way of an enlightened strategy, let alone a vision with which the company and its employees could identify.
Anyone taking bets on when the next grounding (as a result of industrial action or lack of operating funds) will happen?
Last edited by Alpha Leader; 5th Aug 2002 at 08:05.
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studi,
HAHA Don't make me laugh! A very provocative stament indicative of YOUR brain-function. Get your licence, then a life.
Arguments like a court-verdict? But who needs court for a state-run airline...
You insist on using rumours as your source. I hear opposite rumours, so what? You shouldn't make so many bold statements for someone who is obviously not well informed.
Alpha, your post really hit the spot.
THESE are the real problems swiss is facing.
I think a next grounding will take a while though. A lot of money has been sunk into this airline.
By the way: All Lufthansa and Swissair pilots (all ab-initios) I talked with have the same opinion as I have. They told me that theyd never tried to become a free market pilot. Seems to me that those airlines dont seek candidates who would sell their grand ma to become a pilot rather than emotionless, brain guided characters who could also imagine doing another job.
And my brain tells me at the moment that Crossair pilots are wrong. Im open for arguments though
You insist on using rumours as your source. I hear opposite rumours, so what? You shouldn't make so many bold statements for someone who is obviously not well informed.
Alpha, your post really hit the spot.
THESE are the real problems swiss is facing.
I think a next grounding will take a while though. A lot of money has been sunk into this airline.
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Studi:
What is your problem? What does prevent you from buying a newspaper and actually READ about the court's verdict? It was and still is all over the papers, so you should be able to find some decent info about it.
Furthermore, you really do not get what seniority is about. There is no re-training (whith your mentioned massive training-costs) whichever seniority is going to be applied. Everybody keeps his seat, but in case of retirements and expansion it determines who is going to fill the free seat. What is more important in the current situation it says who has to leave in case of downsizing.
And please answer this, in case of downsizing the long-haul-fleet who will have to go, ex-SR or ex-CRX pilots? The same for a possible re-sizing the short-haul fleet.
Frankly speaking, you are way in above your head for somebody with no expereince in the airline-industry, your remarks about crx/sr culture proof this.
take care
What is your problem? What does prevent you from buying a newspaper and actually READ about the court's verdict? It was and still is all over the papers, so you should be able to find some decent info about it.
Furthermore, you really do not get what seniority is about. There is no re-training (whith your mentioned massive training-costs) whichever seniority is going to be applied. Everybody keeps his seat, but in case of retirements and expansion it determines who is going to fill the free seat. What is more important in the current situation it says who has to leave in case of downsizing.
And please answer this, in case of downsizing the long-haul-fleet who will have to go, ex-SR or ex-CRX pilots? The same for a possible re-sizing the short-haul fleet.
Frankly speaking, you are way in above your head for somebody with no expereince in the airline-industry, your remarks about crx/sr culture proof this.
take care
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Frankly speaking, you are way in above your head for somebody with no expereince in the airline-industry, your remarks about crx/sr culture proof this
As I said, seniority determines who gets to fly the more complicated planes and who gets upgraded. It makes pefect sense if the more experienced get promoted first. It enhances safety - another word LX didn't even know how to spell it until recently...
Now let me tell you a word about downsizing. I am well aware that the success of SWISS is unsure - to put it very kindly. But you seem to ignore that the taxpayers money was spoken to keep a longhaul network and not to safe a regional airline. So SWISS has to give it a try - and let's hope they succeed.
On the other side the size of LX was adapted to the planned megalomaniac size of SR. While SR got downsized LX never did. Futhermore LX employed many pilots to be able to cope with its planned expansion - which will never happen...
That's why they have a big problem now. Pilots who are - even under the old general work agreement - payed higher than the benchmark and who work considerably less (about 45 block hours a month). It's not their fault, but that doesn't make the problem any smaller. What CCP is trying to do now, is to pass the buck of the downsizing of the regional fleet to the former SR pilots by putting them on the bottom of the seniority list.
Furthermor they are crying for the same salaries as their SR "colleagues". While probably no professional pilot - except those of CCP and a swiss judge who has no clue about aviation - can make sense of how a Saab 2000 pilot can ask for the same salary as an MD11 Captain, it is clear that you can neither pay much more than the benchmark nor much less. In the first case you are no longer competitive and in the other case every experienced pilot will leave the company with all his knowledge asap - which is not only expensive, but also unsafe.
So it's quite clear that CCP's dreams are not only absolutely unrealistic, but are also endangering SWISS. A union chairman saying on TV that he thinks that his pilots can no longer guarantee a safe operation because they are only offered 16% more salary, not only badly underestimates the professionality of his pilots and makes them the laughingstock of the nation, he also scares of the customers - and that alone qualifies him to be fired immediately!
Last edited by skypointer; 5th Aug 2002 at 15:27.
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Hello skypointer,
You obviously like to mix facts with fiction in your above post.
Let me straighten you out a bit.
Ofcourse ! Why should the regional pilots pay the price for an oversized long haul fleet which sole purpose is to satisfy the oversized ego of a small Alpine state ?
As a matter of fact, itīs the size of the long haul fleet that is endangering SWISS as it costs million per day to keep it flying and prevents SWISS from joining a serious partnership. As you might remember from the īgood oldī Swissair days, an airline can not survive without joining an alliance these days.
You call pooring 15 BILLION Swiss Franks into failing airlines in order to create an alliance (because Swissair didnīt want to join another alliance and play second fiddle) and buying fancy Airbusses "downsizing ?" Youīve got to be kidding ! Try a second carreer as a comedian !
Another blatent Aeropers lie in order to manipulate the masses. By the way, if this logic of yours is true, then why does an (ex-SR !) A320 pilot make the same as an (ex-SR !) MD 11 pilot ? 
Another perfect example of how Aeropers has hijacked SWISS for itīs own gains, with complete disregard for the cost structure and future of SWISS. 
You obviously like to mix facts with fiction in your above post.
Let me straighten you out a bit.
What CCP is trying to do now, is to pass the buck of the downsizing of the regional fleet to the former SR pilots by putting them on the bottom of the seniority list.
So it's quite clear that CCP's dreams are not only absolutely unrealistic, but are also endangering SWISS.
While SR got downsized LX never did.
Youīve got to be kidding ! Try a second carreer as a comedian !
Furthermor they are crying for the same salaries as their SR "colleagues".
Another perfect example of how Aeropers has hijacked SWISS for itīs own gains, with complete disregard for the cost structure and future of SWISS.
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R V
For gods sake it's very rare we have to read idiotic statemants as yours here in the forum. If there is anybody mixing up the facts with fiction its you!
Ex-SR pilots already payed the price for the missmanagement. Do you think it's easy having 30% less money and no more perspective for the future?
So, you don't want to pay the price for the long haul fleet but you insist on having their salaries. By the way long haul are flying with 80%+ SLF. What is short haul with ex LX doing? About 35%.
Leaving 30% of the long haul fleet on ground is downsizing, isn't it?
If not, there must be a new kind of math which I don't know by now. But maybe you could teach me, would you?
Yes it is logic that every ex SR pilot earns the same. Except of some young CMD every pilot is Mixed Fleet Flying qualified with A330, which is quite demanding being current on both.
aeropers did actually stick to the bussines plan with 35% less, while CCP (or swiss pilots as it's ironically called now) did not. They already got 16 % on top of the original BP which called for the old salary structure.
And just to top. If ex-LX crew were planned the way ex-SR crews are, you could easily fire 200 of your pilots. BTW this is a fact, not a rumour. Not yet calculated the necessary downsizing of the regional fleet. Keep on dreaming makeing money with this fleet.
I wouldn't recomend you to work as comediant, as you proposed to skypointer. You'd starve,. But neither could I recommend to work in a cockpit. With your lack of situational awareness and logical judgement it might be dangerous!
For gods sake it's very rare we have to read idiotic statemants as yours here in the forum. If there is anybody mixing up the facts with fiction its you!
Ex-SR pilots already payed the price for the missmanagement. Do you think it's easy having 30% less money and no more perspective for the future?
So, you don't want to pay the price for the long haul fleet but you insist on having their salaries. By the way long haul are flying with 80%+ SLF. What is short haul with ex LX doing? About 35%.
Leaving 30% of the long haul fleet on ground is downsizing, isn't it?
If not, there must be a new kind of math which I don't know by now. But maybe you could teach me, would you?
Yes it is logic that every ex SR pilot earns the same. Except of some young CMD every pilot is Mixed Fleet Flying qualified with A330, which is quite demanding being current on both.
aeropers did actually stick to the bussines plan with 35% less, while CCP (or swiss pilots as it's ironically called now) did not. They already got 16 % on top of the original BP which called for the old salary structure.
And just to top. If ex-LX crew were planned the way ex-SR crews are, you could easily fire 200 of your pilots. BTW this is a fact, not a rumour. Not yet calculated the necessary downsizing of the regional fleet. Keep on dreaming makeing money with this fleet.
I wouldn't recomend you to work as comediant, as you proposed to skypointer. You'd starve,. But neither could I recommend to work in a cockpit. With your lack of situational awareness and logical judgement it might be dangerous!
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Hi what_goes_up,
Uhhhh, well, letīs see, it looks nice on paper, AP hands in 35% with no risk, and the ex-LX guys get 16% extra but bear the complete risk seniority wise if Swiss does not fly as planned. These 16 % and the Russian Roulette risk, we never asked for. It was a nice try by managment in order to make us swallow the sour seniority/vacation/carreer model grape. Guess what, it didnīt work, so weīre back at square one ! 
Hi Studi,
That is one possibility. Fact is, with this arbitration courtīs ruling, Aeropers will have to make compromises if they want to see this new airline take off. Whether they like it or not....
Time will tell. It will be a very interesting month !
aeropers did actually stick to the bussines plan with 35% less, while CCP (or swiss pilots as it's ironically called now) did not. They already got 16 % on top of the original BP which called for the old salary structure
Hi Studi,
Hey you CRX guys, why not go back to separate lists? Then SR pilots get sacked for further longhaul reductions and CRX pilots for shorthaul reductions.
Time will tell. It will be a very interesting month !
Last edited by Robert Vesco; 5th Aug 2002 at 22:10.
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Again full marks studi. If CCP don't want anything to do with the longhaul network, then why give them a carreer chance on this fleet?
But there is another problem - even if you separate the seniority lists. The LX MD80 will be phased out and replaced with A320s starting in spring 2003. I can see no solution with a single A320 corps with separated seniority. So this would mean 2 corps - a absolute waste of money.
So even two seniority lists is no solution - just a postponement of the problem until 2005. And it's by no means costneutral. I wonder who pays the difference...
Well, read the court verdict! The Aeropers general work agreement is legal! So why change it? To help CCP out of the mess they rode themselves into? After all CCP did for SR pilots? Get real! Aeropers gave already to much - 35% pay and 30% layoffs! And CCP? They were only offered 16% more salary. And now they want even more and guaranteed job security - again: get real!
It's not Aeropers who is thretening the take off of Swiss its CCP.
But there is another problem - even if you separate the seniority lists. The LX MD80 will be phased out and replaced with A320s starting in spring 2003. I can see no solution with a single A320 corps with separated seniority. So this would mean 2 corps - a absolute waste of money.
So even two seniority lists is no solution - just a postponement of the problem until 2005. And it's by no means costneutral. I wonder who pays the difference...
Fact is, with this arbitration courtīs ruling, Aeropers will have to make compromises if they want to see this new airline take off.
It's not Aeropers who is thretening the take off of Swiss its CCP.
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skypointer,
- I never, ever heard a S2000 pilot ask for an MD 11 salary.(and I talk to them every day)
- Downsizing the former swissair fleet by 30 or whatever percent was not enough (by far) to be justified economically. It was just done to save some precious jobs(which is nice) and to keep a longhaul operation from ZRH(which is just a swiss ego question and has nothing to do with common sense).Why should WE take the fall for an oversized longhaul fleet.
- Blatantly disregarding a court's verdict and saying they are stupid says more about you than about the court.
- Saying the AP contract is legal because the court said so is nonsense, READ the verdict as you said. The contract should not significantly differ from the CCP's, according verdict. Swiss lost the case! The court was, as said before, not even allowed to pass judgement upon anything else than the discimination-issue.
What_goes_up,
Which business plan? where was it ever published? Easy to stick to any budget by the way, if you leave the other party with the leftovers.
The main misunderstanding here is that the whole stink is about money.
People should realize you can't just take over a company and tell the original employees go f**k themselves.
Managment made a big mistake here, I don't even blame aeropers here.
Although I am open for arguments from all sides, the notourious Swissair-arrogance is shining througout your posts, guys.
Try to keep it neutral, ok?
- I never, ever heard a S2000 pilot ask for an MD 11 salary.(and I talk to them every day)
- Downsizing the former swissair fleet by 30 or whatever percent was not enough (by far) to be justified economically. It was just done to save some precious jobs(which is nice) and to keep a longhaul operation from ZRH(which is just a swiss ego question and has nothing to do with common sense).Why should WE take the fall for an oversized longhaul fleet.
- Blatantly disregarding a court's verdict and saying they are stupid says more about you than about the court.
- Saying the AP contract is legal because the court said so is nonsense, READ the verdict as you said. The contract should not significantly differ from the CCP's, according verdict. Swiss lost the case! The court was, as said before, not even allowed to pass judgement upon anything else than the discimination-issue.
What_goes_up,
aeropers did actually stick to the bussines plan with 35% less, while CCP (or swiss pilots as it's ironically called now) did not. They already got 16 % on top of the original BP which called for the old salary structure.
The main misunderstanding here is that the whole stink is about money.
People should realize you can't just take over a company and tell the original employees go f**k themselves.
Managment made a big mistake here, I don't even blame aeropers here.
Although I am open for arguments from all sides, the notourious Swissair-arrogance is shining througout your posts, guys.
Try to keep it neutral, ok?
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Hello skypointer,
Let me brush up your legal knowledge :
Sure it was legal for managment to sign a deal with Aeropers, BUT the contents can NOT discriminate one group of employees against the other in that contract. Now that leaves three choices for SWISS :
1) Either raise the ex-Crossair pilots to the same conditions as the ex-Swissair colleagues (too expensive) , or,
2) Sink the ex-Swissair pilits towards the same conditions as the ex-Crossair pilots (too cheap !) , or finally,
3) Make a contract that is a fair compromise for all parties involved.
Let me brush up your legal knowledge :
Well, read the court verdict! The Aeropers general work agreement is legal! So why change it?
1) Either raise the ex-Crossair pilots to the same conditions as the ex-Swissair colleagues (too expensive) , or,
2) Sink the ex-Swissair pilits towards the same conditions as the ex-Crossair pilots (too cheap
!) , or finally,3) Make a contract that is a fair compromise for all parties involved.
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Easy to stick to any budget by the way, if you leave the other party with the leftovers.
What do you think the economically right amount of downsizing would be right for the regional fleet? I guess it would be more than 30%. First get rid of all your surplus pilots right now before pointing your fingers at other economical missjudges. As written above, there are about 200 pilots too many in your fleets right now before the necessary downsizing of regional fleet.
Blatantly disregarding a court's verdict and saying they are stupid says more about you than about the court.
Saying the AP contract is legal because the court said so is nonsense
Think about it; every change in your contract is subject to a vote by Aeropers members. Because our contract IS legal.
You had the chance to participate in negotiations and ran away because you were not prepared. So have it and blame no one else than your CCP.
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Hi R V
Maybe you should brush up your legal knowledge!
A legal contract is a legal contract and can not be changed by one party only.
Do you really think Aeropers would agree to further deteriorations in their contract?
Why should swiss be the first airline in the world to treat regional the same as mainline? Being way above the benchmarket is one thing. Leaning to far out of the window to get even more might be dangerous!!
Maybe you should brush up your legal knowledge!
A legal contract is a legal contract and can not be changed by one party only.
Do you really think Aeropers would agree to further deteriorations in their contract?
Why should swiss be the first airline in the world to treat regional the same as mainline? Being way above the benchmarket is one thing. Leaning to far out of the window to get even more might be dangerous!!
