UK EASA Licence Transfer

[parafinburner]

With UK CAA they validate for aircraft like Crop sprayer best thing to do if you need an FAA Licence is to do the exams while you are in the study mode get a book like Gleims and study do the test and if you do a single Engine ATP that will give you the FAA ATP unrestricted and then if you do a SIM check ride for a twin if employed that gives you the twin rating with Aircraft on licence best way spending money for validations can be expensive also you can email me at [email protected] because there are many scams out there especially Kenya as they dont validate liences and I was nearly caught by that so be careful

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by BONES_

The UK CAA would NOT be able to make any comment about flying a F- or D- or OE- reg aircraft as it would be outside their juristiction.

Well yes, obviously, to you and me at least - but the post I replied too was accusing them of lying for not saying anything about it...

If, and that’s a big if, the UK were not be able to remain within EASA, any EASA UK licence would become automatically a national ICAO compliant one.

Ah, now that again is apparently obvious to you and me (and the CAA), but, in its Notice to Stakeholders, EASA appears to have a different opinion, saying that such licences "will no longer be valid". Personally I think that EASA is talking b***ocks there, as in the event they are referring to (hard brexit) what they are commenting on would be outside their jurisdiction. But hey, maybe what they actually mean is "we at EASA will not consider them valid as a punishment for leaving (until ICAO says we have to)"...

[citabria06g]

Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789

Actually the full CAA statement clearly states that it is talking about "use on UK-registered aircraft" - and it says absolutely nothing about F or D-reg or any other reg. In fact I am struggling to see anything that is clearly a falsehood in the statement - per my (limited) understanding of the situation.

Would you consider the following sentence truthful?

Over time, this would include removing references to EASA - a purely cosmetic change.

Do you consider the loss of flying privileges, the no longer mutual recognition of training, the increased cost, purely cosmetic? But I will agree with you that most of the inaccuracy comes from omission. For example, as you pointed out:

Both commercial and private UK pilot licences would remain valid for use on UK-registered aircraft

And what about EASA-registered aircraft? The CAA knows the answer to this really well, they just avoid the topic as it would spoil their self-righteous press statement. Sorry, I expect better.

[Duchess_Driver]

And what about EASA-registered aircraft? The CAA knows the answer to this really well, they just avoid the topic as it would spoil their self-righteous press statement. Sorry, I expect better.

As has already been said, how can the UK CAA comment on what EASA will allow a now ‘national UK CAA licence holder’ to do. Post 29/3 it’s up to EASA who plays with their train set - not the UK CAA. If you expect better then perhaps a better understanding of licensing issues would give you better.

After we (regrettably) leave the EU and EASA the UK can simply re-print a licence without reference to EASA and carry on, regulating British aircraft, airports, industry and of course pilots as they see fit - provided there is some mechanism in UK Law that allows that. Again, as has been pointed out and regardless of the rights and wrongs of it, EASA would look pretty stupid if they turned around one day and said we non-longer recognise a certificate that was obtained under our rules ‘just because we don’t want to”.

[BONES_]

Ah, now I see where the issue might be!

in its Notice to Stakeholders, EASA appears to have a different opinion, saying that such licences "will no longer be valid"

I think you misunderstood what the document is saying. UK licences are and will be ICAO compliant - recognised and accepted among all ICAO members (ie nothing can stop you flying a G- reg aircraft to keep it in simple terms). No one is denying it and nowhere I can find a statement that refutes it; and certainly neither EASA nor the EU would be able to as it is well outside their jurisdiction!

However saying [EASA UK issued licences] “will no longer be valid” is actually correct because it means “no longer valid within the EASA regulation framework” for mutual recognition, acceptance of training and all privileges associated with membership. This is what they mean; certainly it is the way the way my workplace and I understand it.

Hence why easyJet EU based crews are getting their EASA licence transferred to Austria (flying OE- reg aircraft) and UK based crews keeping their EASA UK issued licences/maybe soon to be National licences (flying G- reg aircraft).

Again, as has been pointed out and regardless of the rights and wrongs of it, EASA would look pretty stupid if they turned around one day and said we non-longer recognise a certificate that was obtained under our rules ‘just because we don’t want to”.

why? without a legal framework (call it a deal or agreement or whatever you fancy) between EASA and the UK CAA, it would be foolish and quite frankly arrogant to think mutual recognition will continue after 29th March. On what legal basis? “Just because a licence was obtained under EASA” doesn’t mean anything, especially as future regulations might diverge between the two parties. You leave a club, you also give up membership privileges.

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by Duchess_Driver

EASA would look pretty stupid if they turned around one day and said we non-longer recognise a certificate that was obtained under our rules ‘just because we don’t want to”.

Isn’t this what happened when transition from JAA to EASA was made? JAR licences issued by EASA members were simply converted to EASA ones, while a lot of JAR licence holders issued by countries not in the EASA club were left with a nice ICAO licence.

[Webby737]

There's some interesting reading here from Baines Simmons.
According to them the government's white paper states the following:

• It is proposed that mutual recognition of professional qualifications continues, to facilitate the provision of professional services by individuals and companies to be unhindered. This should include EASA licensed pilots, maintenance engineers and Air Traffic Controllers. Considering the general shortage of licensed people in aviation, we think it is unlikely that unnecessary barriers will be raised to their mobility.

The full document can be read here:
https://www.bainessimmons.com/wp-con...uly-2018-2.pdf

[BONES_]

according to the BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45501007

The cabinet is meeting for a three-hour "no deal" planning session and is ready to publish contingency plans for driving licences and passports.

With regards to driving licences (in a way there are some similarities!), it could give us a flavour of could happen to us. The Cabinet was also planning to publish an aviation contingency plan this week but I gather it has been pushed back for few more days. Hopefully it will give us better insight! After all, we all want some clarity.

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by FlyingStone

Isn’t this what happened when transition from JAA to EASA was made? JAR licences issued by EASA members were simply converted to EASA ones, while a lot of JAR licence holders issued by countries not in the EASA club were left with a nice ICAO licence.

So was that "a nice ICAO licence" that would be recognised as valid by EASA nations (what the CAA says will happen) or an "invalid" licence (as EASA says will happen) ?

[Longhitter]

Valid as in: legal to operate a UK registered aircraft from the UK to a destination and back (provided the UK and the destination country have an agreement on landing rights). Invalid as in: not legal to operate an EASA registered aircraft.

[A and C]

The EU ultra federalist have been the first to blink over the Irish boarder problem and when they realise the damage they will do to the aviation sector they will back down........... just how are Airbus going to get an aircraft to fly if EASA decides the wings built in the UK are now no good ? The French & Germans will insist on a pragmatic resolution to this problem simply because of the money involved.

[robin]

And this affects our pilots licence how?

[Whinging Tinny]

It will affect your licence as if in the worse case scenario all UK ETSOs, EASA Form 1s, type certificates, MRO certifications will become invalid. Also the same applies in Europe to a lesser extend. Many UK maintenance personnel work in European countries and companies and many Europeans work in the UK aviation industry.Nothing will fly on either side of the fence and it won't matter what colour your licence is.
Items 1, 2, and 3 are pertinent reading in the link below:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ion-safety.pdf

[bulldog89]

Originally Posted by Whinging Tinny

It will affect your licence as if in the worse case scenario all UK ETSOs, EASA Form 1s, type certificates, MRO certifications will become invalid. Also the same applies in Europe to a lesser extend. Many UK maintenance personnel work in European countries and companies and many Europeans work in the UK aviation industry.Nothing will fly on either side of the fence and it won't matter what colour your licence is.
Items 1, 2, and 3 are pertinent reading in the link below:
https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ion-safety.pdf

Nothing will fly from/to the UK, not in the whole EU.
The majority of maintenance technicians based in the EU are locals, not English.

In case of no deal the UK will shoot the EU in a foot while shooting itself in the head.

[Whinging Tinny]

Originally Posted by bulldog89

Nothing will fly from/to the UK, not in the whole EU.

If the UK's aviation becomes null and void, that affects the whole 'food chain'.
Airbus UK, B/E Aerospace, BAE Systems, GE Aviation Systems, Goodrich, Honeywell, Rolls Royce, Zodiac plus a few hundred other companies involved in aviation will be in non compliance of current EASA rules.

The majority of maintenance technicians based in the EU are locals, not English.

No one ever said they were not, read the statement again.
There is more than one country which makes up the United Kingdom.
Have you ever actually been on the shop floor of Airbus UK, TLS or HAM to name but one company and seen the multi national work force?

In case of no deal the UK will shoot the EU in a foot while shooting itself in the head.

If you actually step back, you will see this comes from EASA not the UKCAA, but hey ho..........

There's a bigger aviation world outside the flight deck door.

[bulldog89]

Originally Posted by Whinging Tinny

There's a bigger aviation world outside the flight deck door.

Do you really think Airbus (example) is going to keep the production lines in the UK in case of no-deal instead of moving them let’s say in Poland?
And, yes, the workforce in the aviation buisness is multi national, and this means anyone can be replaced if necessary.

[MCR01]

Interesting speculations.
To return to the original posters question. As a UK national with a UK issued EASA licence, living permanently in France, flying a D reg sailplane has anyone any actual experience of transferring their UK EASA licence to a French EASA licence?

[FE Hoppy]

Does this mean my old UK CAA FE license will be valid again? EASA removed FE from all their documents just to spite me.

[BONES_]

http://www.gov.uk/government/publica...no-brexit-deal

so much for cosmetic changes, Mr Swan!

[TURIN]

Originally Posted by BONES_

http://www.gov.uk/government/publica...no-brexit-deal

so much for cosmetic changes, Mr Swan!

Looks like the CAA is going to be busy for the next two and a half years.