Command upgrades at Jet2
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Command upgrades at Jet2
Would anyone who is either in Jet2 currently or been there recently, or know about it, have any information on the upgrade process there please. More importantly things like:
- are upgrades actively encouraged?
- what is the process like, I have heard it is not that well defined and you are sort of left on your own to get through it
- are they hard on you and fail you for minor things or do they like to get guys through?
Basically...do I get CMD in RYR which I can soon, or (assuming I get an offer) do I try my luck in Jet2 and hope command will happen in a year or so...
Thanks
- are upgrades actively encouraged?
- what is the process like, I have heard it is not that well defined and you are sort of left on your own to get through it
- are they hard on you and fail you for minor things or do they like to get guys through?
Basically...do I get CMD in RYR which I can soon, or (assuming I get an offer) do I try my luck in Jet2 and hope command will happen in a year or so...
Thanks
I'd advise doing the command in RYR first. Not that I suspect it's easier, but makes up your mind if you fail the RYR command. Plus going from RYR to Jet2 as a Captain would be easier as you'd be more 'valuable' to Jet2..
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- are upgrades actively encouraged?
- what is the process like, I have heard it is not that well defined and you are sort of left on your own to get through it
- are they hard on you and fail you for minor things or do they like to get guys through?
Basically...do I get CMD in RYR which I can soon, or (assuming I get an offer) do I try my luck in Jet2 and hope command will happen in a year or so...
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If Jet2 offers you a better lifestyle I would say go for it, take Jet2 and nail the command course in a years time, if your plan is to enter Jet2 as a captain I assume they operate out of a base you want or would offer you a better lifestyle than RYR.
I tend not to subscribe to these various rumours that the X airline command course is difficult, or you have to avoid such and such a training captain or you'll fail etc, you'll end up calling in sick for half of your checks if you subscribe to that sort of thinking, and generally try and go in with the attitude that they want you to pass and it is yours to fail. I can appreciate that much of it is luck of the draw, if you have a complicated problem come up whilst on the initial command line check or bad weather etc but that's the nature of the job I suppose.
I tend not to subscribe to these various rumours that the X airline command course is difficult, or you have to avoid such and such a training captain or you'll fail etc, you'll end up calling in sick for half of your checks if you subscribe to that sort of thinking, and generally try and go in with the attitude that they want you to pass and it is yours to fail. I can appreciate that much of it is luck of the draw, if you have a complicated problem come up whilst on the initial command line check or bad weather etc but that's the nature of the job I suppose.
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A year in Jet2 to get on a command course is extreamly optimistic in my opinion. You will need 2 sims before even getting your name in the hat then there will be a good 6months to a year to get on a development week. Then a few other hoops.
By which time you have done your RYR command and got 1000hrs left seat and Jet2 will Hoover you up as a DEC and you will get your base of choice and double your potential Jet2 F/O salary
I know what I would do!
Oh wait I did that!
By which time you have done your RYR command and got 1000hrs left seat and Jet2 will Hoover you up as a DEC and you will get your base of choice and double your potential Jet2 F/O salary
I know what I would do!
Oh wait I did that!
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I guess it's relative to what you're used to.
I've no experience of Ryanair's training department but my limited experience of Jet 2's training in the short time I've been here is nothing but positive. I'm sure there are the bad eggs that exist in all companies but on the whole it's very training-orientated, especially compared to legacy carriers in the Middle/Far East.
I've heard things were not this way in the distant past and maybe that tarnishes the reputation of the training department even now, which is a shame. Had the pleasure to meet the training management and a lot of the trainers and they've all been great guys.
If I can offer one piece of advice it would be this:
Prepare 110% for your command course and put the effort in studying on your days off, going through every manual with a fine tooth comb making notes. When you get to the sim you'll feel more confident that you know your stuff and the instructors will see that you're willing to put the effort in to learn and correct any mistakes. If you turn up expecting to be 'taught' everything there is to the job of a Commander, then you have contradicted some of the qualities expected of a Commander. It doesn't exactly display good Leadership or Integrity. "Preparedness makes us powerful".
I've no experience of Ryanair's training department but my limited experience of Jet 2's training in the short time I've been here is nothing but positive. I'm sure there are the bad eggs that exist in all companies but on the whole it's very training-orientated, especially compared to legacy carriers in the Middle/Far East.
I've heard things were not this way in the distant past and maybe that tarnishes the reputation of the training department even now, which is a shame. Had the pleasure to meet the training management and a lot of the trainers and they've all been great guys.
If I can offer one piece of advice it would be this:
Prepare 110% for your command course and put the effort in studying on your days off, going through every manual with a fine tooth comb making notes. When you get to the sim you'll feel more confident that you know your stuff and the instructors will see that you're willing to put the effort in to learn and correct any mistakes. If you turn up expecting to be 'taught' everything there is to the job of a Commander, then you have contradicted some of the qualities expected of a Commander. It doesn't exactly display good Leadership or Integrity. "Preparedness makes us powerful".
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Is there any truth to the rumours of a 'checking/chopping' mentally in the training department?
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Yeah they do.
I've read somewhere it is £7.5k for a rated FO, which seems rather high and makes you wonder if it is a means to tie people to the company for a few years and discourage them from leaving (having said that I've no idea what other companies do these days and it might be standard practice).
For a non rated FO it is still £25k+ I believe, but might be wrong.
As far as I'm aware there is no bond for internally upgraded FO's.
I've read somewhere it is £7.5k for a rated FO, which seems rather high and makes you wonder if it is a means to tie people to the company for a few years and discourage them from leaving (having said that I've no idea what other companies do these days and it might be standard practice).
For a non rated FO it is still £25k+ I believe, but might be wrong.
As far as I'm aware there is no bond for internally upgraded FO's.
Last edited by Jumbo2; 26th Dec 2016 at 10:09.
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Can not understand how a company bond a pilot with a type rating on the fleet he is going to fly. It is not fair. In that case I was looking for Alicante or maybe Palma de Mallorca and a change from RYR to JET2 but I think I´m going to continue looking for other options.
Thanks for the answer Jumbo2.
Thanks for the answer Jumbo2.
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It is very fair indeed. You always forget to count how much company has spent on screening, sim assessment, convertion course - groung and sim, crm/wet/fire/first aid etc and finally on the line training. If you put that all together 7,5k sounds very reasonable to make sure people don't jump in a few weeks. All airlines hr/flt ops depts full of stories when pilots have left just after the line training completetion just because there was a couple of hundred quid better offer pop up around the corner.
It is not fair. Training costs can be recliamed by the employer!
"If an employee needs training as a necessity to carry out their job (so that the training is 'wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred') then tax relief will be given. The key word here is 'necessarily' as unless the training is necessary, its cost is not deductible."
"If an employee needs training as a necessity to carry out their job (so that the training is 'wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred') then tax relief will be given. The key word here is 'necessarily' as unless the training is necessary, its cost is not deductible."
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It is very fair indeed. You always forget to count how much company has spent on screening, sim assessment, convertion course - groung and sim, crm/wet/fire/first aid etc and finally on the line training. If you put that all together 7,5k sounds very reasonable to make sure people don't jump in a few weeks. All airlines hr/flt ops depts full of stories when pilots have left just after the line training completetion just because there was a couple of hundred quid better offer pop up around the corner.
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It is not fair. Training costs can be recliamed by the employer!
"If an employee needs training as a necessity to carry out their job (so that the training is 'wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred') then tax relief will be given. The key word here is 'necessarily' as unless the training is necessary, its cost is not deductible."
"If an employee needs training as a necessity to carry out their job (so that the training is 'wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred') then tax relief will be given. The key word here is 'necessarily' as unless the training is necessary, its cost is not deductible."
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Yes that were the days when only BA and PanAm been operating between London and New York and both were happy to offer you a discounted economy roundtrip ticket for $6000 (adjusted for inflation to 2016 dollars). Unless you have a time machine better start getting used to nowadays reality.
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It is very fair indeed. You always forget to count how much company has spent on screening, sim assessment, convertion course - groung and sim, crm/wet/fire/first aid etc and finally on the line training. If you put that all together 7,5k sounds very reasonable to make sure people don't jump in a few weeks. All airlines hr/flt ops depts full of stories when pilots have left just after the line training completetion just because there was a couple of hundred quid better offer pop up around the corner.
Airlines resorting into using excessive bonds (and £7.5k for rated pilots personally seems rather high) could raise the question why, after joining, FO's were keen to leave the company so quickly (and have to redo a selection and OCC for the next operator).
My quote was from the following website.
Making Training Costs Tax Deductible Solicitors: Nottingham, Leicester and Derby UK
Making Training Costs Tax Deductible Solicitors: Nottingham, Leicester and Derby UK
Yes that were the days when only BA and PanAm been operating between London and New York and both were happy to offer you a discounted economy roundtrip ticket for $6000 (adjusted for inflation to 2016 dollars). Unless you have a time machine better start getting used to nowadays reality.
Do any of the four largest airlines, or low cost carriers in the U.S. require a pilot to pay a bond, or pay for their training ? No. They pay for your training, pay you whilst training and pay for your accommodation during training.
Stockholm syndrome.