Ryanair SSTR
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Right up to the time when they don't need you then you'll be gone. When they need more there'll be plenty of idiots lining up willing to part with their hard earned for the opportunity to be treated with contempt and disdain.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
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Can you tell me the last time Ryanair made a pilot redundant?
Gender Faculty Specialist
No, although that doesn't mean they haven't just that I don't know if they have or not, so far.
Can you tell me they never will?
Can you tell me they never will?
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the clouds
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I'm a permanent Ryanair FO UK based. I was a cadet 5 years ago and was recruited as a contractor. I asked for a permanent contract over a year ago and got one. Take home pay for me varies between £3600 minimum and £4300 Maximum. At the moment I'm quite busy so I'm netting just shy of £4000. Roster is 5 on 4 off fixed. Annual leave is one calendar month paid and two blocks of 5 days which wrap around the 5-4 to make two blocks of 13. At the moment I'm in the command process and with a bit of luck and providing I put the required work in I will be a 737-800 captain before the year is out. I've never had any major problems over the years and I enjoy doing the job. The summers are quite hard with lots of 4 sector days and the winters have its own challenges with some of the less desirable places that we fly into.
I did consider my options earlier this year and I was offered assessments with Thomson, BA, and Emirates. Lots of my colleagues have left for these three airlines and quite frankly I can't knock them for doing so but for different reasons I decided to stay but I will always keep my options open.
Company expanding from 317 a/c to 520 over the next 10 years so I don't see any redundancies nor have I ever seen any in my time in FR.
Don't get me wrong it's by no means the best job in the world and at times things do frustrate me but it's by no means the worst.
I did consider my options earlier this year and I was offered assessments with Thomson, BA, and Emirates. Lots of my colleagues have left for these three airlines and quite frankly I can't knock them for doing so but for different reasons I decided to stay but I will always keep my options open.
Company expanding from 317 a/c to 520 over the next 10 years so I don't see any redundancies nor have I ever seen any in my time in FR.
Don't get me wrong it's by no means the best job in the world and at times things do frustrate me but it's by no means the worst.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
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I'm a permanent Ryanair FO UK based. I was a cadet 5 years ago and was recruited as a contractor. I asked for a permanent contract over a year ago and got one. Take home pay for me varies between £3600 minimum and £4300 Maximum. At the moment I'm quite busy so I'm netting just shy of £4000. Roster is 5 on 4 off fixed. Annual leave is one calendar month paid and two blocks of 5 days which wrap around the 5-4 to make two blocks of 13. At the moment I'm in the command process and with a bit of luck and providing I put the required work in I will be a 737-800 captain before the year is out. I've never had any major problems over the years and I enjoy doing the job. The summers are quite hard with lots of 4 sector days and the winters have its own challenges with some of the less desirable places that we fly into.
Also is this contact ever given to "new Joiners" along with a UK base?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
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As an ex FR employee, yes employee, I can only commend their training department and the vast majority of trainers that they have (and have lost!) Operationally, they're pretty spot on. They move with the times, their system works.
If you can handle being a small fish in a very big pond, being nothing more than your crewcode and putting up with a lot of unesscessary b.s. Then grab it whilst you can. They may be trying to change things, however their rate of expansion demands it. They simply don't have enough bods at the pointy end so they've had to apply a softer touch to the crew. Pissing people off only had so much longevity and I reckon the attrition levels over the last few years has bit them on the arse. That aside, they do a lot of things right, they have some great people and with the right attitude and commitment you'll learn a hell of a lot. Best of luck with your decision.
If you can handle being a small fish in a very big pond, being nothing more than your crewcode and putting up with a lot of unesscessary b.s. Then grab it whilst you can. They may be trying to change things, however their rate of expansion demands it. They simply don't have enough bods at the pointy end so they've had to apply a softer touch to the crew. Pissing people off only had so much longevity and I reckon the attrition levels over the last few years has bit them on the arse. That aside, they do a lot of things right, they have some great people and with the right attitude and commitment you'll learn a hell of a lot. Best of luck with your decision.
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Just to add some more numbers. 4000 GBP for directly employed FO may be true for Stansted, but those I know in other bases are not averaging much more than 3000 EURO (if they even get there)
Contractors make more money depending on how properly they pay their taxes.
Contractors make more money depending on how properly they pay their taxes.
Join Date: Mar 2013
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From what I understand employment terms with FR are base dependent and not network-wide.
Now this is SECOND HAND INFO so I can't verify if it's correct, close or way off but I have heard of some of the cont. European FO contracts with a basic of just under €20k pa
Now this is SECOND HAND INFO so I can't verify if it's correct, close or way off but I have heard of some of the cont. European FO contracts with a basic of just under €20k pa
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Salary agreements or 'Base Agreements' are determined on the basis of locality. Simply put, some paper pusher from an office somewhere will head off on a rekkie, determine the price of a pint of milk and a mars bar and work out your gross pay from that. Regardless of the fact that you chose to live in Tiblisi North or not is all a matter of fact, Ryanair will consider you as a resident at your place of work, however; unofficially, they know that you jumpseat across the network in order to spend a few days at home before 'doing it all again.' Any argument will be met with the age old proverb that 'your contract was negotiated directly between the company and your local base employee representative committee (tm).' You haven't a clue who this person or persons are and have a sneaking suspicion that the word 'negotiation' means something else entirely in Ryanairland.
All matter of opinion and very tongue in cheek. I could be wrong. 😀
All matter of opinion and very tongue in cheek. I could be wrong. 😀
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
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I doubt it Kilo. And don't forget, you will most likely be funding 2 residences: your main where you really live and the other where you supposedly work where the salary is low. You will be slumming it in a dump fulfilling a work/sleep/eat regime while herelf will be draining the coffers in a high priced region. All paid for by a small loaf of bread. The RYR model is not for the faint hearted or low funded.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Cadet to Command in 5 years. I guess also that's 2015 rather than 1998.
Scary, and it doesn't matter who the employer is. Is there too much reliance on outside factors e.g technology, back up systems, SOP's, ATC +radar, more ILS's?Have these been allowed to substitute for real experience? I don't want to re-open a long debate about command upgrade experience, but one wonders how low it can go. If you can have a command on a turbo prop at 25 years old and 1500hrs, with all the quirks that type of operation involves, one wonders about the command requirements of jets in 20 years time. As the basic training is diluted and targeted towards MPL and simulator training and 'hoop jumping' it would not be a surprise to find that pilots can go from zero to airline hero via ZFT simulators and be base training with nothing more than 10hours Cessna and a few circuits. 1st solo and then the sim. You could take an F/O at 1500hrs (2 years line flying), put them on a 3 month intensive command ZFT sim course and churn out a 'captain'. Ouch! Beware of the future.
Scary, and it doesn't matter who the employer is. Is there too much reliance on outside factors e.g technology, back up systems, SOP's, ATC +radar, more ILS's?Have these been allowed to substitute for real experience? I don't want to re-open a long debate about command upgrade experience, but one wonders how low it can go. If you can have a command on a turbo prop at 25 years old and 1500hrs, with all the quirks that type of operation involves, one wonders about the command requirements of jets in 20 years time. As the basic training is diluted and targeted towards MPL and simulator training and 'hoop jumping' it would not be a surprise to find that pilots can go from zero to airline hero via ZFT simulators and be base training with nothing more than 10hours Cessna and a few circuits. 1st solo and then the sim. You could take an F/O at 1500hrs (2 years line flying), put them on a 3 month intensive command ZFT sim course and churn out a 'captain'. Ouch! Beware of the future.
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Aviation Finishing School to the World
If/when EASA ever adopts the FAA's rule that you must have at least 1,500 hours before you can sit in the F/O seat of a medium/large aircraft on scheduled air carrier duty: Ryanair's game is over.
In the meantime, get all you can, kids! It's jet time.
And a word to experienced chap(s) who think that the responsibility for protecting the quality of our profession falls on the shoulders of the newest ones struggling to get in:
Get you head examined.
Our profession is going down the tubes because of US, no one else. It isn't the flight schools, it isn't the bean counters or the other managers, it isn't the agencies or the unions, it isn't the oil prices, it isn't Michael O'Leary, it isn't the sandbox or the Ethiopians or the Turks. IT IS US, THE PILOTS. We don't trust each other, we betray each other, we deal directly with the jerks in management, we don't unite and we are a bunch of cowards. It's true, and you know it. If you want to do something constructive, talk to five of your colleagues this week about what we could attain in this profession if we all trusted and respected one another up here in the pointy end. What new standard of living would our LOYALTY to each other buy us?
Try it and find out.
In the meantime, get all you can, kids! It's jet time.
And a word to experienced chap(s) who think that the responsibility for protecting the quality of our profession falls on the shoulders of the newest ones struggling to get in:
Get you head examined.
Our profession is going down the tubes because of US, no one else. It isn't the flight schools, it isn't the bean counters or the other managers, it isn't the agencies or the unions, it isn't the oil prices, it isn't Michael O'Leary, it isn't the sandbox or the Ethiopians or the Turks. IT IS US, THE PILOTS. We don't trust each other, we betray each other, we deal directly with the jerks in management, we don't unite and we are a bunch of cowards. It's true, and you know it. If you want to do something constructive, talk to five of your colleagues this week about what we could attain in this profession if we all trusted and respected one another up here in the pointy end. What new standard of living would our LOYALTY to each other buy us?
Try it and find out.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
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Well said Birdstrike...
No matter how some of us try to raise the bar, there's some spoiled brat out there looking for the instant gratification and sign up for the pay to fly schemes. Just as low as scabs who cross picket lines... why... instant gratification with promise of upgrades.
No matter how some of us try to raise the bar, there's some spoiled brat out there looking for the instant gratification and sign up for the pay to fly schemes. Just as low as scabs who cross picket lines... why... instant gratification with promise of upgrades.
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Very correct BS737, BUT you are talking about the final result because the Irish club stabbed you in the back and the RYA club just stood and watched!
I hope you have learnt how to organise a pilots association (Or even a union in the long term) and will not forget that when you mount a brave attack that fails, Paddy the Irish guru once said, "Go back to the old ways" and try, try again, BUT take a different path towards your destination.
It's the pilots in the CAA and FAA itself that you need support from, cos without their help any new campaign would need serious money to stand any chance of improving flight safety or pilots working conditions.
I hope you have learnt how to organise a pilots association (Or even a union in the long term) and will not forget that when you mount a brave attack that fails, Paddy the Irish guru once said, "Go back to the old ways" and try, try again, BUT take a different path towards your destination.
It's the pilots in the CAA and FAA itself that you need support from, cos without their help any new campaign would need serious money to stand any chance of improving flight safety or pilots working conditions.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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The oft repeated clarion call for pilots to stand up for their profession; more collective union action. Sounds good. The airline managements of EU have a collective voice. EASA has a collective voice for the rules of operation & FTL's. No doubt, considering some of the changes over the past few years, that collective voice of management had a very strong & effective lobby with EASA. There is no collective pilot body to balance this onslaught. Oh yes there is; it's called ECA. If it does not have enough teeth then it could grow some. If they put out a call I'm confident the troops would respond. It's called leadership. Where is it? It's not just the individual pilots who don't support their colleagues; within the various national unions in EU countries they don't support their neighbours. I thought that was what ECA was all about, an EU wide pilot voice on common interests. Have they been out to lunch for 15 years? It's all now too late. Horse has bolted and is over he horizon. Stable door is swinging on rusty hinges.