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Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced?

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Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced?

Old 28th Jan 2018, 08:55
  #421 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by Wingman82 View Post
Why so angry?Failed the assessement?
One only regret he has, will never know first hand how lucky to fail the assessment
South Prince is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2018, 22:32
  #422 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 13
-Ofc Tk will pay attention to turkish locals at first..i am not sure what you expect from them? The country has 80 million population guys, dont get confused with qatar or uae which have small populations..they already started to grow up their own first officers in their cadet program..i assume that within 5 years they wont even ask FO or captains from other countries or even if they look for they can put one extra 'turkish language' as requirement.

Imagine lufthansa, lh group care about others? how many french,spanish,dutch people are working for lufthansa? or check other flag carriers, its more or less the same in every country so i dont think that they do something extraordinary..

Lh group searching fo for eurowings and the first thing that they are looking for is german language.How many guys know german in this forum?

Do you think that people can enter to iberia without knowing anyone?? if you think that way probably u must be really silly tho.

Communication in airfrance e-mails and other things, do you think that everything is english? Everyone is using their own language,this situation is not just only for tk.

Tk is giving this chance to EU people and our own airlines just dont give us that kinda chance tho..if you are able to get a good job in EU just go for it..Tk is not pushing anyone that you can only work for them..

Its about what kinda mentality you have? According to me, i would like to work for turkish instead of working for ryan air,easyjet,wizzair etc etc.We also know how they treat their pilots and conditions aint better than turkish.Noone will tell me come to swiss,we will take you to cockpit of b777 huh?

One guy wrote a message about DLR exam i guess...He doesnt even know that its a lufthansa based german exam.There is no relation with turkish tbh.Airlines pick up some tests such as pilapt,adapt,dlr,compass etc..Turkish picked up DLR exam like lufthansa,swiss,austrian,brussels and so on whats wrong with it?? Some people really need to push themselves hard..Again, if you dont wanna face with TK dlr exam,go for the EK advanced compass exam but with this mentality im sure that you will complain about that exam as well..

Lira is collapsed for sure,turkey has some bad periods now for sure but is there any airlines which offers perfect conditions and as i ve said if you are able to get one flag carrier airline in EU just go for this but we also know whats goin on in EU companies as well..

Guys just come back to reality,noone will give you perfect standarts even if they say like this..dont be dissapointed that much just keep studying and push yourself hard a bit..

Last edited by Lx001; 28th Jan 2018 at 23:16.
Lx001 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2018, 08:31
  #423 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 626
Lx you might be a tk expert, but from this post and how you justify things I can tell you you know very little about European airlines.
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2018, 04:14
  #424 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Bogota
Posts: 3
Upgrade to captain

Hello, do you have any info about upgrades to captain, is it possible being an expat in Turkish, requirements to be upgraded, any info will be helpful for me.
Originally Posted by LandSafe View Post
My post
+ it is serious!
+ it gives you many details, even background info
+ I am actually flying there as expat
+ I am curious about any "source" and I evaluate them carefully, if I had not the same experienced in several times
+ I am outside of Turkey in order to write what I think (no censorship)

To start, I am non English and my language skills aren`t best.
I am a person for whom respect is a major item, and who accepts other person thinking is different.
If my words might compromise somebody, I appologize in advance because any negative meanings could arise from my language knowledge or cultural differences.

I fully comply with your posts, since all items could be true as pilot actually flying in THY.
- "Avoid THY, if you can." - my advise is the same!
- "Former colleague told me about, how many expats ran away" - fully true, in my fleet (A330) I think it is around 50% or more
- "Highly unstable conditions, anywhere" - I feel the same.
- "Good luck for everybody beeing there and trying to escape" - Thank you, I am using this luck daily ...

It seams, you had joined a while ago, when there had been better times. I believe (unable to confirm) that you were B777, the nicest fleet.
I try to include the original post of Survived into your numbering sequence to make understanding easier for others

1) Survied: "personal life - no matter what you do, you could be taken to prison for no reason"
Skipping: "Theoretically yes, anybody can be taken to prison in Turkey. OK, this is crazy, but in reality only politically active people are affected.
me: The reality IS, THAT ANYBODY HAVING POWER (police man, security personnel, military, secret service) CAN TAKE YOU WHEREEVER YOU ARE WHATEVER YOU DO.
They might interprete something is politcal and you are gone, no human rights any more. Writing this would be enough that your family does not hear anymore from you.
If they think, what you write, what you say in public, what you say next to your mobile (just battery in, not on), or by calling, if they judge it is political, than they can take you. end of story.
There is no difference at all to Hitler`s SS. Even you can see much more similarities from this actual State to former Germany.

2) Survived: "smartphones are under surveillance, police can check you phone"
Skippping: "Smartphones are not under surveillance, unless see #1"
me: "They" simply monitor your mobile, to find out, if you are political or not. Who knows, why "they" decide you are politcal. But "they" monitor...
Plus, what I find even more embarassing. Policeman DID take the smartphone, when you are arriving by public street at the gate to the airport and they checked several apps!

3)Survived: "company withdrew salary increase, but costs continously increasing"
Skippping: "Costs are actually decreasing - the hotels got cheaper. No salary increase of 1% - that's true - however it will be done retroactively if the company starts making profit again"
me: MY costs: When I go to the supermarket, I pay approx 20% more than last year, same time TL dropped by 33%, and my salary increase was 4%.
I paid in Titanic hotel for an additional single room approx. 140TL, today it is 175TL. Mobile costs raised from 45TL to 70TL doing the same as before, etc. etc. etc.
I am only 95% sure, but the salary rise for 1st JAN 2017 was 4% plus inflation, and another 3% plus inflation for 1st Jul 2017.
Predicted Inflation for 2017 is 10,1% (just checked)
Both increases are gone, we are talking about 27% for 2017!!
These 27% given back to us, only maybe, if you trust them AND THY make ?100 million USD profit (cannot remember the amount)...
And if you are NOT a Union member, THY takes 2% out of your salary! There is NO Contract for this, but they do.
When I claimed for the 2% they just said, it was agreed with the new Union Contract, but not saying which paragraph or whatever,
and what makes me angry most, they just cut the salary without telling you. This leads to a very untrustful situation, so you check
always the salary, but there are too many unknowns, so you end up in a big "?".
Also they cut the per-diems. Before the new Union-Contract it was protated payment for the day you left IST and you came back to IST. They days in between they paid full.
Now it is, that they pay only the days, when you have complete 24h. But do not ask me, what time counts. If it is UTC, or Local IST, or Local Destination time, I do not know,
and you do not get, as non Turkish speaker, the rules where it says what.
Last point is a typical item for THY... (later see rasist behaviour)

4) Survived: "Turkish Lira dropped within a year by 1/3"
Skippping: "Sadly true."
me: correct, regarding last 6 months. Here is the timeline: today 1€=4TL, 2016 1€=3TL, 2013 1€=2.2TL
Depending on the future behaviour of "him" TL might fall BELOW 1€=5TL !

5) Survived: "Silly company rules urge expats to be longer in IST than they need"
Skippping:"No company rules against expats: it may seem so, but in reality there seems to be some confrontation between the flight ops and crew planning so all the pilots are affected, not only expats"
me: both correct: The rules simply affects expats mosts, because they are not home in IST area.
The rules says, you have to be in IST area 12hours before your duty, which is 13.5hrs(wide-body) or 13hrs(narrow-body).
That means, come 2days earlier if you have a flight starting just after midnight, which most long-haul flights do.
The first plane landing IST from Europe in most (not all) cases lands just before noon.
There is not enough time to be on duty for the flight departing after midnight.

6) Survived: "FO`s are even behind PUR in case of ID tickets"
Skippping: "FO's and PUR are same level of priority, so if the PUR is more senior, then yes, she goes first"
me: both correct. And there was an email from fleetmanagment, that FO should take business seat on deadhead flights, if space available,
but since fleetmanagement has no power in THY, nobody resepects this email, with the result, that there could be an empty business class,
but the FO would fly the 13h from KIX to IST in the ECO.
Maybe you would say, the FO could ask CPT or PUR for the "internal" upgrade. Forget it!!!
If the CPT is TUR, then he says NO. If the CPT is expat, depending on his experience and attitude, he might say YES, but the PUR says NO
and threats the CPT to write a report (which he/she would do anyhow, because the CPT broke a rule)
Of course the CPT is the final authority, but if he does, he goes for a coffee in fleetmanagment....
I did it once, against the will of the PUR, she reported me, I had the coffee and now I have a warning in my file.

7) Survived: "- due to increasing cargo flights, deadheading increasing a lot and most times CPT/FO ends up flying up to 12h in ECO"
Skippping: "Can't say anything"
me: I can say a lot, and this is true and a very bad item:
Roughly 10% of A330 are Cargo Aircrafts. The number will increase, also B777 will get CARGO.
According to THY Cargo, a Cargo A/C makes 4times the money of a PAX A/C.
More and more flights we go somewhere deadhead (ecerywhere around the world) and takeover the CARGO A/C to bring it to IST or vice versa.
Many times the Business Class is full, nowadays worse than before, since THY started to sell Business Class seats last minutes at the counter
to a reasonable price compared to booking price.
This results, that all Captains and FO end up in ECO seats. Since the Crewplanning is responsible for the reservation of the seat, they do last minute,
and you get a shitty seat somewhere in the middle of the ECO class. You will fly the full time there, going inside in uniform.
Since many PAX use THY with IST as hub, they continue and your neighbours or pax behind/infront are 24+ hours travelling resulting in a lack of patience.
With all the different negative behaviour you will arrive highly exhausted at your destination.
In old flightdutytime rules, deadhead did not count as flightdutytime, so you could go somewhere you travel roughly 1h to the hotel
and you have not even 8hrs to sleep. (I did IST-BKK = 10+1.5h in the A/C, 1h to hotel 7.5hrs in the room, less than 6hrs sleep, 1h to the airport,
2hrs (!) until ready for Cargoflight, then time to IST was 16hrs due to intermediate landing, which we always have.

8) Survived:"A/Cs are on ground due to missing pilots, not due to economical situation"
Skippping: "There's no pilot shortage (yet). Definitely no flights cancelations due to pilot shortage. If that was the case I'm sure the conditions would have been improved already and the crew planning issue were also already solved. Too many pilots now - so supply vs demand is at work."
me: Oh YES, there is a shortage and A/C are on GND due to missing pilots and I believe missing 330 pilots.
I cannot proof this, but there are 3 major facts:
1. THY has started recruiting 330-FOs a few days ago, check yourself!
2. Many P3 (Senior-FO) and P4 (Type qualifed FO being able to fly with new CPTs) have resigned or are going to resign soon, applying outside of Turkey - this is what these colleagues told me.
3. Ask any TUR CPT or FO to have the newspaper of 2nd MAY - Economical Chapter - I am sure, that most time they can help you.
This is my understanding of a translation by a TUR Cpt:
Many A/C are on ground since THY has a massive lack of pilots. More than 100 TUR pilots had resigned.
The remaining expat pilots could be happy to work in THY, since they do not meet the high standards of their home country.
I forgot the name of the newspaper, also it did not mention the numbers of expats, who left THY.

9) Survived: "most times no salary in case of sickness"
Skippping: no reply
me: Easy example: You have a cold, you will pay the doctor at home, the medicine, have in most time a deduction of 100% of days missing on your salary plus the flightpay.
There is a rule, that for sickness of 1 or 2 days, your are fully paid. This is partially correct, but to make everybody aware of the THY procedures, and the UNION agreed (!) changes, get the following in your mind:
Roster: day1:IST-JNB, day2:rest, day3:JNB-CPT-JNB, day4: rest, day5: JNB-MPM-JNB, day6/7: JNB-IST
but you fly: day1:Sick, day2:IST-ESB-IST, day3:IST-AYT-IST-BJV-IST, day4:IST-LHR-IST, day5:IST-MAD-IST, day6:IST-KBP-IST, day7:IST-TXL-IST
deduction of base salary: NIL
deduction of flight pay (which is 40% of all salary) days2-7 equals approx. 19h of 72h paid = deduction more than 1/4!
Result: You get the initial flights of these 6days deducted, even that you have WORKED! This is THY and this is the UNION of THY!
and remember: Everytime you get a deduction it will be more, than what you would earn, when you fly!
Also, Health insurance is NOT paying at your home, except in case of live-threating events. All other costs are on you.

10) Survived: "highly rasist airline, any department, anywhere: locals will get all benefits, expats doing the"
Skippping: "The last point is completely incorrect. There's absolutely no discrimination against expats in my experience.
The case being there are a lot of cultural differences that create a lot of misunderstandings, so some of us may take it personally and feel like they are being
mistreated / discriminated, where in reality its just a matter of perception."
me: Well, I have seen many different cultures, almost every culture is different than my own. I am aware of this.
What is rasist? My understanding of rasist is:
- Locals get the good flights (summertime to US, wintertime to SouthAfrica) , Expats gets the unnice destinations (US in wintertime, Mauritius in Rain Season)
I call this rasists, because the decision, which pilot is going where is based on being local or not
- 99% of TUR reply on emails to all by speaking TUR, but they are able to speak English, at least a few words could counteract rasism
- a fleetmagazine where 1/3 of the content is not translated into English, although the content is relevant for work and not aiming of any TUR relation
- staff in majority is unable to communicate in English, although they deal with expats day by day
- managment is pure TUR
- majority of old CPTs (even 1/3 of young CPTs) treat expats rough and unpleasant, even if they are able to communicate in English
- mostly if you are with 2 TUR CPT/FO in COC, they speak TUR in case you do not heavily insist to speak English. In case you are nice, they continue in TUR.
- many other benefits you get much more easily, or at all, if you are local
And all of this is THY!

Skippping: "When things pick up again and THY needs pilots for sure just raising the salary and giving more days off will do the trick to get a new bunch of willing expats."
me: If you check the new advertising for A330 FOs, there is no change at all.
But I remember, still they - I call it "stole" 27% of our salary.
Financial Situation is not as bad as they want us to believe.

Well, it seams you experienced nice years, as I did at the beginning. It is for sure not the same company as the old times ...
- "TL was always going down" ... salary rises did not compansate that, and within the last year it dropped by 1/3 !!! And NO salary rise any more !
Question: Comparing to the rate at your beginning, how much is the salary loss with actual rate in %?
RE2 - advantages:
1) "you are close ( 2h ) from most European destinations" - 2h means only Eastern and partly Southern Europe
2) "salary is after tax nad not bad comparing to other european operators" - well comparing to those where FO pay for flying and a few more, YES!
Comparing NET and in EUR, the majority is not an advantage!
3) "they pay the pension insurance" - what is a pension insurance worth, if you do NOT get the payment, which is the case for 95% of expats.
With the new law (maybe 1.5 years old) you have to fulfill several items, one of them is to have pension payments into TURKISH pension for 7000 days,
which is just less than 20years...
4) "always upgrade to bussiness class without asking" - you speak only for a CPT, which I confirm is many times the case but never "always",
and sometimes you fight with stupid 18 year old groundstaff since they want to upgrade regular ECO pax, when ECO is overbooked, ignoring
the procedure, or other stupid items, which are ignoring this procedure.
5) "normally you get block OFF requested ( not always )" - once upon a time, I confirm this, but since 2 years, forget it - not only 330 fleet!
Remember : Expats are not able to use the "Crewish" and cannot request, only send an email to the contact-fleetmanagement-CPT of the fleet,
who then might forward this email to Crewplanning, with the result (which I can proof) that you get an outcome completey OPPOSIT to your request.
6) "...well organized company" - for sure not, we have been in 2 different companies - according to my experience !
7) "good technical support" - not from my point of view: they clear the TechLog ignoring the leak of the HYD for FWD Gear, and ..., and ...

All my mentioned facts or words are my experience and best of my knowledge.
The reason why I did not leave yet is simply, that I am on a 2nd part time of 3 months.
There are several posts within my writing time of 8hrs on which I could not reply.
Being open minded for any kind of reply...
Viverosg is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2018, 22:20
  #425 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On a Wing!
Posts: 227

Can anyone tell me what would be the average take home salary for a current B777 skipper for say 70 hours of flying.
Are you bonded even if you are typed. And may I ask how long does the initial training last please.
And if Company provides accommodation please advise me what kind of accommodation is it please.
Many thanks in advance.
King on a Wing is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 12:38
  #426 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Outta town
Posts: 157
The expected pay for a B777 captain just dropped significantly, in in real world terms.

The Turkish lira dropped over 30% to the GBP in the last week alone.

Was £1 = 4.3 THY
Now £1 = 5.6 THY

Do the Math.

My guess there will be a run on the Turkish currency , and 7 or 8 to the pound may not be unexpected, especially if the government continue with the military assult on the Kurds.

Interestingly, I just received a bunch of emails for THY Captains. Now let me sleep on that one .
highfive is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2018, 17:42
  #427 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Bogota
Posts: 3

Does THY upgrade foreign First officers to wide bodies or to Captain?, how long considering a FO in 737 with 4500 hours??
Viverosg is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 07:20
  #428 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by highfive View Post
The expected pay for a B777 captain just dropped significantly, in in real world terms.

The Turkish lira dropped over 30% to the GBP in the last week alone.

Was £1 = 4.3 THY
Now £1 = 5.6 THY

Do the Math.

My guess there will be a run on the Turkish currency , and 7 or 8 to the pound may not be unexpected, especially if the government continue with the military assult on the Kurds.

Interestingly, I just received a bunch of emails for THY Captains. Now let me sleep on that one .
Replace the word Kurds with YPG. You are suggesting that Turkey is attacking a population group. You should know better. Any idea how many Kurdish people are working at THY?

Indeed, the salary in €,$,£ dropped unfortunately. Everybody is free to go somewhere else. Always go for a better carrier.
psychomantic is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2018, 07:25
  #429 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Viverosg View Post
Does THY upgrade foreign First officers to wide bodies or to Captain?, how long considering a FO in 737 with 4500 hours??
Yes, they upgrade expats to wide body and also captain.

An upgrade for FO to wide body only <1000 hrs on narrow body. So in your case no upgrade for you to wide body.

Upgrade for a commander depends on seniority and hours: university degree 4500 hrs and no university degree 6000 hrs. But still if you have the hours, it could be a long time for an upgrade. Same conditions for locals, a lot are waiting for an upgrade
psychomantic is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2018, 20:45
  #430 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55
Posts: 2
4 years in Thy/ Turkish- Here is how it was and why I left

Upon Joining in 2013:

- Money was quite good considerating the real commuting contract.(possible to go home in the 3 weeks on)
July 2013 Cpt LH Basic money was 22.000 TL divided by 2,56 was 8.500 € + Bonus every 3 months and 80 hrs (10 hrs above 70 hrs contract) gave an average of 10.500 € up to 11.000 € after taxes.
- Extra Appartment money was 2.000 TL (780$) or accommodation in great Titanic hotel payed by Thy .
- Flight time /Duty time was quite good. It allowed the Airline to make you fly up to 90 hours and at the same time have decent rest times to go home in between your 3 weeks on / 1 week off (actually 9 days off)
- Rest time were excluded from the Off days which meant that you could have sometimes more than 9 days !
- We had reserve day with require to call the day before at 5PM to know if there was a duty the next day . Great for expat flying to home in between duties as they could some times stay one more day at home! Sometimes 3 nights home in the On period!!
- 4 pilots for duties like Kabul (go and back) or Pvg (2 days layover) Fru Ist followed by 48 hours rest
- Some nice 2 days layover in nice hotels in Jakarta, Capetown always followed by 48 hrs rest time etc…
- Maximum 6 days duty in a row and NO double duty on the same day.

Well …Foreign Pilots rushed to Turkish Airlines. We were more than 1.000 !

Then there was the very terrible 2016 year with the « Coup « and terrorist attacks in Turkey and Istanbul airport.

All employee understood the hard situation of the Country and Turkish Airlines, expressing their good will, accepting lower salaries until situation stabilizes.

Unfortunately for us (see below) , great CEO Temel Kotil left (was requested to leave?) and a new Management put in place , ready to smash all employee working conditions.

In 2017 (4 years later):

- July 2017 Cpt LH Basic Money was 32.200 TL divided by 4,16 is 7.700 € +Bonus every 3 months and NO overtime (you fly 69Hrs59 min and they **** up your roster if you have overtime). Average is below 9.000 € all included on a 3 months basis.
You are payed on the 8th. Curiously exchange rate is always decreasing the days before. It is very frustrating.Just check if you don’t believe me.
Salary is adjusted every 6 months but below the official inflation.
Every month salary is going down as they pay all employee in TL while they are making huge money in Usd or €.
In the same time all your costs are based on Usd/€. Even for Turkish people as they import everything.Id 90 tickets and even training bonds or Flight academy for younger pilots is due in €/Usd. So their amount due is never going down !!
- Extra Appartment money is still at 2.000 TL (became 400 €) or Hyatt Hotel 5 stars but very bad location. We,expats, got the order to move to another hotel in 1 email sent 30/12/16 for 1/1/17 without any consideration of what we like and where we feel good. After enquiry with hotel managers, Thy moved foreign pilots from Titanic to Hyatt for a 10 TL difference a night (2 €). Yes!!
In this 4,5 years of time , renting an appartment became also much more expensive
- They implemented an insane new Flight Time /Duty time (except for 777 pilots, the winners) which allows them to force you destroying your health
Example: With 3 pilots,You can go now upto 17 hrs + 3 hrs (extension you are expected to accept) equal 20 hrs of duty !!!. So the Pvg Fru Ist becomes possible with 3 pilots ! and forget the 48 hrs min rest times as you spend only 24 hrs in PVG (instead of 48 hrs in PV. SO ….no jet lag considered in FTDT. So ….minimum rest
Same for Kabul (difficult and sensible place ) become with 3 pilots with a mandatory resting inflight patterns of 1H30 each. Stupid and dangerous as all pilots are dead tired upon landing in Istanbul after 15 hrs duty. Forget the 48 hours rest times.
Back from 11 hrs Cape Town at 5am loc time you have a Stby to fly again the same night
Back from 7 hrs Nairobi flight at 4am loc, you get a Stby the same evening from 10pm!!!
- After each flight you become Home Stby so your are stuck in Istanbul. Forget to go home, it is impossible. You belong to the Airline and they can do what they want with you. You are just nothing than a register number having his Turkish Phone mandatory open even in your rest times . You get notifications from Planning department that are considered as accepted as soon as you read it
- Of course, you can never make a request for a flight. Flight distribution is a secret. Hold by HR only . Even Flight Operations have nothing to say to HR .
But I , personally,have never been to Havana, Mauritius, Seychelles or Bogota, more than 2 years without Usa flights.
Kabul , Pakistan and Middle East were my usual flights.
- Cutting money from your salary is probably the fastest reaction they have. Everything is a reason to cut your money.
As you are permanently in stby, if you don’t answer 2 times your phone, you get cuts. Sick abroad? No way you are cut. Then sometimes you may get the money back if writing to your « delegated » assistant fleet manager who ,now, even doesn’t reply any more (because he is also demotivated and doesn’t get any "Office time" any more to reply to his pilots)
- Of course when you get annual leave , they make you fly the 70 hrs due in 2 weeks. It shows there is no good will from them to improve your expat schedule.
- Regularly, we received Text messages from Thy: « Dear esteemed (!!!!!) Captains, we are short of pilots…please accept requests from relevants units… » and at the same time they make them go away from Thy. Hard to understand isn’t it?
- 90% of Long Haul flights are night flights. Most of ER Departures are around 2 AM and arrivals around 5 AM. This very tiring and totally different from other Majors were one of the flight is a day flight. But Thy don’t take into consideration night duties. Only Jet lag if more than 48 hours. Then you are acclimatized …and you get 2 , 3 or 4 local nights…..that they can now, with new FTDT ,put in your regular off days! Well , the Job is exhausting.
- 9 days duty in a row, double duty in the same day. Example you can fly 9 times early or night flight in a row waking up at 3 am . No problem
- The 9 days off became actually 7 days as your tight schedules make it impossible to go home on the 21 st day and you get a duty on the 1 st day around 1 am …. So you have to travel early in your last day off….to have the minimum "12 hrs at Istanbul before a flight rule" they implemented.
- Hotel quality and locations changed drastically . eg: Sanghri La in downtown Jakarta became airport hotel. Southern sun waterfront hotel in Cape town became low class Protea hotel in an unsafe place. Radisson Blue in downtown Manhattan became Long Island Marriott at 1hr from Manhattan then low class Row Hotel in Manhattan.
As hotel locations are unsafe, we got a note that crews are not supposed to walk out of hotels !

Crash in Kathmandou is already forgotten. And this is the REAL problem.
They talk about Flight Safety every day but do not respect their pilots and their real responsibilities .
Atmosphère in the working environment became very bad.


New Airport located 1H30 from Istanbul will open on 29th October.
There is no train, no highway, no hotels right now.
While they expect thousands of employee will move there.
Nothing seems to be prepared. No message , no explanation . Nothing
It will be a huge mess as they want to transfer all Thy operations in 2 days

The main issue for management is to kill the new Official Union Hava-Sen that collected more than 4.000 applications in a few weeks.
Mainly Pilots but also a few cabin crew members .

The only way they found is to fire 2 Captains and 5 cabin crew to spread terror.

While, in the mean time ,Thy made huge profits

All this is true according to my personal experience on A 330/340
It ’s became a Hell.
And I don’t talk about 737 and 320 fleets where the new FTDT is worse and definitely killing them .
Biloute68 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 09:30
  #431 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 2
Good Information

1. Pilot must be in IST 12 hours before flight. That means, an expat has to be there a day before and that day for travelling is still considered as OFF day. Also it means, expat cannot go home in 48hours rest period (plus possible short-term OFF).
1. Yes it's true but they don't follow you or there is no any punishing. But you must check in 1 hour or 1:30 (ER) before flight.
2. In case you get sick, nevertheless where you are, you have to fly to IST, to consult doctor at the airport and show up. Otherwise, THY takes this as NO-SHOW and it has disciplinary consequences?
2. If you are sick you must inform the crew planning 4 hours before the flight. After information go to the Doc office at least 1 hour the flight, in the airport. If you inform the crew planing before the flight no disciplinary consequences.

3. Also when you are sick, you get full reduction in salary, and with luck, you are able to get a maximum of 25% back after months, but only with Turkish National Health Insurance, appliying in Turkish Language at their desk and with Turkish-only speaking staff.
Reduction is minimum 4 hours or up to flight time it's not good.

4. Since the new year the roster has changed and it is now for long-haul that way applied, that the pilot is 21days in IST, then 7 days at home. With the new rules, there is no chance of going home, even if your flight is only 1h from IST (ATH as example).
4. Unfortunately new FTL strikes everybody. I think top managers will change some rules.
5. Managers are asking for new ideas, how to get more pilots to THY, but at the same times, all benefits are cut, changes are only to the giving side of the pilots and not vice versa.
5. Company needs more pilots. thy pays as TL, 1$ is 4.08 and 1€ is 5.1 and the salary is now less than 8000$ for captains. Benefits and salary shall be change in 6 mounts (I hope)

6. Turkish Lira has lost of its value up to 40% and there is no compensation from THY.
6. Read number 5

7. Many expats are leaving after a year or a little more, because there is hardly movement in getting better working conditions, or as before, conditions are getting worse.
7. Read number 4 please

8. Turkish Union is not a help, they are not defending any expat problem.
8. No comment

9. You must be 24h available on mobile, otherwise disciplinary consequences are following.
9. No it's not true. Only for home standby. If you don't answer the phone 3 times in 15 minutes (home stay) they cut the salary.

10. flights are taken away by rostering, without any reason and on short term notice. Therefore, pilot is 12h before duty in IST and then he can experience, that his flight is canceled and he is bound to stay in IST.
10. Well something is correct but they should inform the crew 24 hours before. Otherwise accept or not; up the crew.
Good luck

Appreciate any reasonable comments ...[/QUOTE]
wortex is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 09:39
  #432 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 2

Originally Posted by polax52 View Post

1. Try not to get disciplined or sacked, Just resign, it's better for your career.
2. Never work for an Airline where there is a strong local union which is anti expat Pilots, it can only end in misery and not for the local union.
2. There is no strong local union which is anti expat. Union is almost company union. No racism in Turkey.
wortex is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 13:24
  #433 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Isla Grande
Posts: 965
Originally Posted by wortex View Post
No racism in Turkey.
You are so funny.......
gearlever is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2018, 11:39
  #434 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: France
Posts: 12
Everything is true. I am actually on A330/340 fleet at THY.
Must add that anyone looking for to work for this company, must deeply think about it.
After new airport starts operations, this will be a hell for expat pilots. NO worthy.

Last edited by erma330; 29th Feb 2020 at 10:29.
erma330 is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2018, 01:54
  #435 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Outta town
Posts: 157
Latest Update £1 = 5.9 THY.

Basic Captain B777-300 £5400.

OMG, how & why do you guys do it? And theres no respite in sight for the plunging lira.
highfive is offline  
Old 14th May 2018, 12:49
  #436 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: There where the eagles dare
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant View Post
At a recent Turkish Airlines road show the pilot recruiter was asked about when u have to be in IST for your trip. Answer was no requirement... Only 1 hour 30 minutes for each flight.
Regarding sick, what I re all is you get paid wither 75 or 80 percent for long term sick if you follow procedures.
I get the distinct impression the wide body lifestyle is more relaxed than the narrow body.

I was told that the CEO recently stated there would be a pay rise for pilots coming soon because they are not receiving the applications and qualifications needed. It was also mentioned that this might be for expat pilots, which doesn't make a lot of sense... Should be all pilots

Just some of what I recall
When and if they ever pay in EUR, increase the annual leave then maybe they will get competent and qualified pilots joining the airline, otherwise it would be a looser’s game to go there..!!
Adolf Galland is offline  
Old 24th May 2018, 11:50
  #437 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 0
Does anyone know do they have bonding contract (for TR) for NTR FO and how long it takes (A320/B737)?
nebojsar is offline  
Old 29th May 2018, 21:52
  #438 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 20
Turkey is banned?

Hey what's wrong with the connection to PPRuNe while in Turkey? It says it is banned if you are in Turkey. What's the matter?
warhammer is offline  
Old 29th May 2018, 22:10
  #439 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 80
Maybe the truth hurts?
Start Fore is offline  
Old 30th May 2018, 02:26
  #440 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
Posts: 163
I see Sigma are still doing the impossible and trying to pass of the latest deal as something revolutionary. They quote "5 consecutive days off" as if THY are the only airline in the world to offer it. I get 7 and I'm based out of my home country.

Clowns. When will they learn?
Smooth Airperator is offline  

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