Norwegian Pilots Not Happy
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Funny how eager the "colleagues" on pprune are to heckle the 0.001% of the industry who have some smidgeon of self-worth left.
Never mind. I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving it all behind, after which I'll be travelling exclusively with Ryanair on their two euro offers. They can fly me at a loss and the rest of you can miss out altogether. I'll break out a crate of cold ones and watch the matiné of "Death of a Career" starring all the clever monkeys who couldn't wait to bend over for another peanut.
Keep staring blankly out the window there Captain Cheeks R Spread. I'll be at home, living life.
Never mind. I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving it all behind, after which I'll be travelling exclusively with Ryanair on their two euro offers. They can fly me at a loss and the rest of you can miss out altogether. I'll break out a crate of cold ones and watch the matiné of "Death of a Career" starring all the clever monkeys who couldn't wait to bend over for another peanut.
Keep staring blankly out the window there Captain Cheeks R Spread. I'll be at home, living life.
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Latest news is that Norwegian have transferred (as in, it's already done) their Scandinavian pilots to 3 different subsidiaries: Pilot Services Norway, - Sweden and - Denmark. As per a management press release, it's done to 'enable pilots to better influence their future' and that present terms and conditions will prevail.
What they don't mention, is that the pilots will be split in 3 separate CLAs, and that future T&C negotiations will take place with each individual subsidiary. In other words, they've split the Scandi pilot pool in 3 and will, undoubtedly, use that in the future to play one against the other. With the fantastically egoistic attitude of many pilots, they'll probably have much success further suppressing the T&C's if they can pull it off.
What they don't mention, is that the pilots will be split in 3 separate CLAs, and that future T&C negotiations will take place with each individual subsidiary. In other words, they've split the Scandi pilot pool in 3 and will, undoubtedly, use that in the future to play one against the other. With the fantastically egoistic attitude of many pilots, they'll probably have much success further suppressing the T&C's if they can pull it off.
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Yes, but can the company actually do this without agreement from the pilots concerned? Is it actually legal to do this? Wouldn't the pilots need to give their consent for their employment to be transerred to another entity?
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SMT Member,
"With the fantastically egoistic attitude of many pilots, they'll probably have much success further suppressing the T&C's if they can pull it off." may apply to some sad individuals, but the collective will of the K Area pilots is to stay together believe me. They are only too aware of the repercussions of being split into ever smaller groups, and I doubt the offer of a better pension deal for the Norwegian (nationality) pilots is going to have much influence in whether they wish to stick with their Swedish & Danish colleagues. For once, pilots are actually seeing the "big picture" here, a refreshing change so far.
It has been written elsewhere that the company cannot exercise control over striking workers, so, even if they have de facto established 3 new companies, the "kind offer" has not been accepted.
It ain't over till the Fat Lady sings, and she is not even yet in the auditorium.
"With the fantastically egoistic attitude of many pilots, they'll probably have much success further suppressing the T&C's if they can pull it off." may apply to some sad individuals, but the collective will of the K Area pilots is to stay together believe me. They are only too aware of the repercussions of being split into ever smaller groups, and I doubt the offer of a better pension deal for the Norwegian (nationality) pilots is going to have much influence in whether they wish to stick with their Swedish & Danish colleagues. For once, pilots are actually seeing the "big picture" here, a refreshing change so far.
It has been written elsewhere that the company cannot exercise control over striking workers, so, even if they have de facto established 3 new companies, the "kind offer" has not been accepted.
It ain't over till the Fat Lady sings, and she is not even yet in the auditorium.
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chksix,
the "offer" is indeed worded in such terms, however . . . . half of the companies pilots are on strike, and another 30-40% are just waiting on a legal ruling which will hopefully confirm that (as they are "employed" in another country / company. . . . bit of an own goal there ) they cannot pick up the Baton & run in another territory in strike -breaking style.
This is far far from being done & dusted, & BK would be best to leave the Moet & Chandon on ice for another day.
the "offer" is indeed worded in such terms, however . . . . half of the companies pilots are on strike, and another 30-40% are just waiting on a legal ruling which will hopefully confirm that (as they are "employed" in another country / company. . . . bit of an own goal there ) they cannot pick up the Baton & run in another territory in strike -breaking style.
This is far far from being done & dusted, & BK would be best to leave the Moet & Chandon on ice for another day.
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CaptPS, I appreciate that the pilots are still on strike and I am aware of previous post content - I was just curious to know if the parties actually got as far as sitting around the table again this afternoon regardless of any outcome.
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Good luck I hope Pilots will win the battle and Also I expect that spanish Pilots contacted by The company for a base changing don't accept this unilateral decition.
Regards from the other side of the Ocean
Regards from the other side of the Ocean
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LoCo, there is a meeting at this very moment. . . .who knows what will be the outcome, yesterday was just another attempt by NAS to enforce their will, which is to split us into ever smaller groups.
samca, at the moment we cannot refuse any duty in SCAN, however, many colleagues have found the prospect of "strike breaking" too stressful & have reported "unfit to fly". If this sorry mess continues we are waiting for a mandate from a Spanish court ,that SEPLA has requested, forbidding us on Spanish Contracts employed by a "Spanish company" ( as ES based contractors are) to strike break in another jurisdiction.
samca, at the moment we cannot refuse any duty in SCAN, however, many colleagues have found the prospect of "strike breaking" too stressful & have reported "unfit to fly". If this sorry mess continues we are waiting for a mandate from a Spanish court ,that SEPLA has requested, forbidding us on Spanish Contracts employed by a "Spanish company" ( as ES based contractors are) to strike break in another jurisdiction.
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only partially related to the ongoing strike...some food for thought, when "clever" corporate structures end up in court (such as ltd companies providing "pilot services" by one employee), a court of law may consider whether the set-up was made to circumvent a law, and may decide to disregard it. Another obvious example, a parent company may not set up a daughter company as an operating entity solely to run it into bankruptcy and thus get rid of debt. And another example, there is some precedent in some jurisdictions, including Norway, that a parent company may have certain responsibilities towards employees of a subsidiary, even if the subsidiary is the legal employer. Lets consider the unlikely case that NAN goes bankrupt: NAS may well be held responsible for certain obligations. Legal structures are not written in stone, a court of law can disregard "creative" coprorate structures that are used to circumvent other laws. Same goes for collective bargaining, or strikebreaking, a court of law could well decide that a "clever" set up with pilots employed in different legal entities is irrelevant ...however the outcome of a legal process is highly unpredictable, and can take years, so obviously it's best if the parties can agree
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Swedish Pilots in NAN were told to accept the reorganization, and get transferred to Pilot Services Sweden, or terminated.
The Swedish Pilot Union responded by suggesting that pilots on strike stay calm, don't respond to any threats, and let the Union lead negotiations, and that the strike will continue until a new collective agreement is reached.
The 16.00 deadline to get transferred from NAN to Pilot Services Sweden passed. Some more information will suppesedly be forthcoming 19.00
The Swedish Pilot Union responded by suggesting that pilots on strike stay calm, don't respond to any threats, and let the Union lead negotiations, and that the strike will continue until a new collective agreement is reached.
The 16.00 deadline to get transferred from NAN to Pilot Services Sweden passed. Some more information will suppesedly be forthcoming 19.00
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Most jet2 pilots don't want to break strike. Some have. But some know how important this all is.
Balpa can't act like Spanish can't either unless the rulings take storm. Let's hope this is the boost pilots have needed, the scandis are staying strong and morale is high. We can only thank them.
Balpa can't act like Spanish can't either unless the rulings take storm. Let's hope this is the boost pilots have needed, the scandis are staying strong and morale is high. We can only thank them.
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Information at 1900. Where?
Last edited by deptrai; 6th Mar 2015 at 17:22.