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Old 3rd Apr 2016, 23:54
  #261 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 268
It never stops amaze me how false people can be. While your are staying with a company, you lick all the butts coming your way. Once youīre out, you start trash-talking them.

Still, while there are starry eyed idiots ready to prostitute themselves to the airlines, while believing that it's acceptable to accept "€1000 a month" to act as second in command of a jet transport aeroplane
That what you call both Syntax Error, Skipping Classes? Cause you know, they did join the company and worked there for quite a while.

First of all, you should compare apples to apples.
What is average salary in Poland, Croatia, Romania? How much do doctors get there? Or police officers, who risks their life. Or fireman, saving lives every day?
Why should fresh out of flight-school cadet (2 year of education), with no flight experience what so ever based in Katowice or Sofia, get 10 times more then cardiac surgeon (10 year education) with 30 years experience?
Do you really think you are that much better than him/her? You call it "fair" and "well deserved"?
Crazy part, even now those cadets get more than most doctors in those countries. And keep whining about "too little money".

Again, comparing apples to apples, should we?
FO starting salary in Scandinavian (they donīt take low hour ntr) is around 3000€/month before you pay 36% tax. So you take home 1900€.
How much does experienced TR FO get to take home at WizzAir?
Now, another thing to consider. How much does it cost to rent an apartment in Oslo vs Katowice?

WizzAir pays you, even when you are cadet, 3-5 times average salary for the country you based in. SAS - well below average for SE/DK/NO. Even if you are experienced FO.

Now, if you do have mortgage, family etc etc in some other country, England or DK, for instance, that is a different ball game. But thatīs your problem as well. You can not go to Poland/Hungary and demand them to pay you like BA does, now can you? If you are not happy with what Wizz have to offer - apply for BA and stay happy.

And just to offer you another point of view. If you did have a company. You paid 2-3 times average for your country. And then you get someone from outside, with no experience at all, demanding to get 5 timer more than you already paying... cause he got expensive mortgage in his home country and thatīs what he would get paid at home.
On top of that, he demands to adjust company schedule around him, cause he donīt want to live in your sh*tty country, he want to commute. What will you tell that person? Honestly?

Letīs stay objective. Letīs not jump to personal insults, especially when we donīt know one another? Have a nice week, everyone!
cefey is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2016, 03:10
  #262 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 83
To be fair the biggest kverrulant(guy who likes to discuss) and dumskalle(kind of dumbass) here is you Syntax Error. Verbal abusing cafey in Norwegian because you do not have balls to abuse him in english, and by the way you have now deleted the text again...says all about you.

Why do you have to fill 16 pages with your talks. Some are true but much of it is BS, like your talk now about the if people would be taxed they would not be able to afford to live in their country. Well many of them live as kings in their countries with all taxes paid. They even earn more than a president in some countries...so stop the crap, and the verbal abuse, since this forum is not for that.

It is far from perfect as I already have stated but it is how it is, and will never be Norway in Romania as you want it to be with proper standards and with 5K salary. And honestly the tax scheme is your own problem, not wizz airs. They hired you on a self employment contract, they have paid all the taxes, and then you do the rest, if you want or not is your own problem. Tell me, what did you do when you were a part of this Confair contract? Did you pay 50% to Norway or?

If you want to sue Wizz Air, then please go ahead if it bothers you so much with the Swiss move, but lets try to keep this thread about what it is, proper information about the company for new people.

Again, as I have already posted, and you have reposted, things are how they are, you know everything from the beginning, and nothing will change unless all the people agree on union, which frankly never will happen...The money issues, the fatigue and the contracts are getting better and better by the years, but as in every company there are pros and cons.

For people who wants to know about interviews, well I do not know as a lot of things have changed in the recent years, sorry.
SoundLesS is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2016, 03:32
  #263 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by Syntax Error View Post
Cefey - You still not getting the point are you?

It's not just about the pay, din dumskalle!

And I did stand up for myself even when I was inside the company. And if you think life in East Europe is so cheap, why don't you go and live in Budapest, Warsaw, Prague or Bucharest for 12 months, and tell me how cheap life is there.

Cefey please go back and play FSX, you are just a bitter tool because you still have not been able to get a job yet. I feel for you, but to try to come on here and thing you know something, well here is a FACT, you don't.

The money part is not the biggest issue, and if you had read some of my previous posts, if you can READ, there is very little mention about MONEY. It is about the companies treatment of people.

Growing up in an overprotected socialistic country like Norway, you would know very little about these kind of issues.

So typical the socialistic way of thinking, putting groups up against each other, why should this person make more than that person. I am not going even to bother to explain, as you clearly can not read what has been written. I guess you should practice some Verbal reasoning, as again I repeat you think this is just about money.

Big surprise, it's not. The only reason the money is half ok in the company, is that they use a tax evading system, to channel all taxes for crew trough Switzerland. If people in Wizz paid proper tax, they would not even be able to afford to live in these countries. But.... who cares. Cefey, go play on FSX now. You knew nothing 5 years ago, I remember some of your idiotic posts from that time, and you still know NOTHING.

People like you Cefey are called Kverrulant!

Let me also remind you Cefey, this thread is not primary intended for Cadets and Zero hour pilots. This thread is primary for pilots with some experience seeking information about conditions at various airlines. So they are normally not arriving the airline with ZERO hours and CPL only. Most of them have 500 hours or more in commercial aviation. The Wannabe section handles more of the conditions for ZERO hour pilots.
Look. I donīt want to engage in conversation with you. But since you go as far as writing to me in PM, trying to insult me there as well, I will reply to you, just this once.

Please, keep to subject. You are very welcome to show me where Iīm wrong. Copy/paste and explain, what is incorrect in my last post. I will be the first one to say "Thank you" for that.

Frankly, I donīt care about your insults. You donīt know anything about me or my background. You donīt know who I am, what/when/why I did in my life. Do you really think your insult will hurt me? Think again.
You may continue to insult everyone here, but you are wasting your time and spamming this thread, thatīs all.

Safe flights to everyone!
cefey is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2016, 04:43
  #264 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3

Anyone attended the assessment recently and wants to share their experience?
NTR Cadet 300TT.
Poshnapp is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2016, 22:56
  #265 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dark Side of The Moon
Posts: 157
Well... The bottom line of all this discussion, is that Wizzair is the company where even the employees (pilots that is) think it is OK to bend the contracts, avoid taxes, disrespect the labour laws and just fire anybody who would like to form a trade union. Apparently everybody who joins Wizz Air knows it from the start.

It is funny that types like Soundless have proven my point exactly with their flaming posts in this thread.

Sad, that those pilots who stayed in Wizz Air long enough or never worked for another airline, truly start to believe that what's going on in the company is the norm and are somehow convinced that they are - I quote - "living as a king".

And basically yes - in Wizz Air this is the name of the game, and its up to each and every individual to decide whether you want to be a part of it.

Last edited by Skipping Classes; 4th Apr 2016 at 23:09. Reason: punctuation
Skipping Classes is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2016, 07:25
  #266 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 4
Syntax Error,

your arguments may be right, but your feelings toward Wizz Air seem to be pathological.
You have or had a working contract with this company nothing more, nothing less. Not being a slave you definitely had the chance to leave and work for a different employer.

It rather seems to me you mistook this legal binding for a relationship, at least thats what I get after reading all your post.

Let me say one more thing: I have got 18000 hours with 5 different companies. Itīs definitely not the pay and working condition that satisfy your needs in life. The overall package either suits your needs or it does not. If it does not, well then itīs time to make the next step.
st.x is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2016, 16:54
  #267 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: WW
Age: 45
Posts: 71
St.x well said! Spot on!
Unfortunately SE is unable to reflect on it, he does not respond to what has been told but what he wants to read-hear, which he by the way underlined with his last comment as well.
In my humble opinion, one should be grateful for the opportunity to straight after school (that was in his case if I am not wrong) get the job on nearly new A320 with fair (livable) condition for a first job as well as training opportunity. Here I mean both initial TR paid by the company and recurrent training. …or if it is so unacceptable walk away long before…

Last edited by sascha410; 9th Apr 2016 at 16:55. Reason: spelling
sascha410 is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2016, 20:46
  #268 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 268
Syntax Error
Why donīt you start an airline company, hiring NTR 200TT pilots, paying for everything, offering amazing conditions? It was a rhetorical question, no answer required.

Mate, letīs channel your anger into something positive? Why donīt you share your opinion on flying short vs long routes for WizzAir?Or what bases are better/worse and for what reason?

Obviously, you have a lot to contribute to this thread. Be kind and share your knowledge.
cefey is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2016, 08:20
  #269 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: DK
Posts: 12
Why would you hire a 200 TT NTR pilot? Because they are dirt cheap and desperate. Sorry guys we broke it ourselves. Where do you go as an experienced FO and get a decent job when competing with low hour guys willing 2 pay for work?

It seems there is no opportunity to take pride in working as an experienced FO so much that many post on this site from newly baked pilots seem to be "where do I get command the fastest".

As mentioned in earlier post a FO in Wizz gets paid many times more than doctors and lawyers in Eastern Europe - wow I can tell you that is not the case in Western Europe. And as for responsibility, you are the only person on board that can demote / correct the Captain or take over if he's incapacitated, carrying for crew, pax, a/c and third party - with 200 TT? I'm pretty sure a newly educated doctor doesn't do brain surgery...

I envy the US for the 1500 hrs rule which we used to have in many airlines in Europe years ago for mainly two things - higher experience level on the flight deck and less access to cheap labor and therefore better conditions for us the pilots.

But as I started out saying - it's broke and it ain't gonna be fixed - so enjoy Wizz and the likes - you've deserved it...
HippoDK is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2016, 10:49
  #270 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dark Side of The Moon
Posts: 157
Gentlemen, all said over and over, but please do not confuse peers and apples...

Yes you can be grateful that somebody gives you a chance to fly an A320 straight out of the flying school. And yes, cadets should not expect to receive the same salary as an experienced type-rated captain in his or her 40s...

We can discuss why the companies are hiring inexperienced pilots straight into the right seat of an airliner, and if its Wizz Air you should be grateful to, or the state of the industry, but this has nothing to do with this thread.

What we are talking about is the company changing contracts unilaterally after many years of employing a pilot, fires those who start a union, explicitly and implicitly blackmails their pilots, places inexperienced and otherwise unsuitable individuals to the management positions in order to be able to execute otherwise unacceptable HR policies, generally disrespects their employees in each and every way...

These are two entirely different subjects.
Skipping Classes is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2016, 15:26
  #271 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 706
Cefey, undoubtedly Wizz Air offer a great opportunity for young and inexperienced pilots to gain a foothold in the industry. But get real, are Wizz doing this because they feel these people make the best pilots? Or are they doing it because they feel that this is an opportunity to gain an indebted work force, who put up with their dodgy employment practices with minimum fuss because the same cadet with zero commercial experience knows if they make a fuss or don't turn up to work then a) they will be out on their ear and b) they won't get paid. If they don't get paid then they can't meet their massive loan overheads.

The low cost companies (and very aggressively in the case of Wizz Air) have deliberately created this scenario to undermine, divide and conquer their work force, slash salaries and undercut the opposition. End result? Salaries for airline pilots get driven further and further downwards and safety (though they pay lip service to it being a number one priority) is massively undermined. It's an own goal signing up to Wizz. Yes in the short term your career aspirations are enhanced but long term you are contributing to the ruination of this industry.

I'm not claiming that you extol or advocate the virtues of this airline but by speaking up so readily to support the Wizz Air position you contribute to the downward spiral to the industry you want to join. I was at Wizz, all I can say is go in with a firm understanding that if you have anything go wrong for you during your employment there you WILL be treated with zero compassion (by senior management anyway, my base captain was fantastic) and all the liability will be on your shoulders. Feel free to gamble, and feel free to also gamble your future career earning potential at the same time.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2016, 19:41
  #272 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: WW
Age: 45
Posts: 71
As most of the time, you are missing the point, so no need to repeat yourself.

This thread is just as much for the low hours pilot as it is for more experienced ones – can you grasp it?

Didn't you join Wizz with 250-300hrs? Wasn’t it your first job? Didn’t it suit your needs at that time? Weren’t you very happy chap when you got the opportunity to fly A320? Didn’t you accept T&C because that was best you could get at that time? How long did you stick with them? Why did you stick with them so long? Didn’t you start applying for other companies straight away? Again why did you stick with them for so long??.........

Knowing all that, apart from many relevant and valuable input you are coming with, your way of addressing other people, writing to private mails, your personal irritation, anger, bitterness, ignorance, not addressing what has been written but what is in your head......all that is indicating that you assimilated and adapted worst part of Eastern European mentality...

I repeat, nobody is questioning your experience with them and facts that you are claiming, but solo your attitude and reasoning.
sascha410 is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2016, 19:20
  #273 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dublin
Age: 33
Posts: 15
Hi all. Just wondering if anyone in the know has an idea of the current hiring situation. I see they are advertising basically non-type rated direct entry commands for high experienced FO's. I applied and was offered an interview for SFO (am well above the minimum requirements with 6000 hours and almost all of it jet time). What would be the company policy or minimum time I could expect to fly as a SFO before getting a shot to upgrade? What are the junior bases for FO's now? Can I choose a base or is it just assigned? Thanks for any info
Rikki is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2016, 05:06
  #274 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dublin
Age: 33
Posts: 15
Thank you for the reply. Are they actually hiring guys for this rapid command programme or is it just a carrot they are dangling and in fact everyone is getting offered SFO for 6 months first?
I imagine summer months are very busy? Any idea of typical hours? Is Belgrade an option for a base or is it a slim chance since it is a small and a new base? I seen it is the lowest paid basic salary of all the other bases but I have family there so would be interested. Anyone with any idea please feel free to reply or to send me a PM. It would be greatly appreciated.
Rikki is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2016, 09:49
  #275 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 1,643
It really is impossible to predict your base. A serbian guy friend of mine got Belgrade, but you cannot be sure.
Be ready to go to Kutaisi or some romanian base, and you won't be disappointed.
Basic salary changes depending on the local taxes, but the final net numbers are similar for every base. Some bases are flying more than others, and end up with more money (eg Gdansk).

They are desperate for Captains, if you do well you can expect upgrade as soon as you have the requirements (500 hours in the company if I remember well).

In the summer you can expect anything from 50 to 100 hours. At the end of the year you will have maximum hours or close.
dirk85 is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2016, 12:40
  #276 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dublin
Age: 33
Posts: 15
Thanks guys. Im just confused that they are advertising to take First Officers in directly as Captain yet I've only been been offered a SFO position. I have well above their minimum stated requirements even after factorising the hours and have A320 time as well as 3000 hours wide-body time so I would consider myself all round very experienced. I had hoped to have a shot at the direct entry command but seems it isn't to be. Not sure its worth leaving my current job for a SFO position.

Thanks in any case for the input. If anyone wants to PM me feel free, it would be greatly appreciated.
Rikki is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2016, 15:36
  #277 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 1,643
How can you expect to be direct entry Captain without Captain experience?

I would stay away from any company offering Cpt jobs to pilots that have never sit on the left seat.
It takes 6 month roughly to be eligible for command, the quickest upgrade you will find anywhere in the world.
I know guys that had the panel assessment, first step for the upgrade, no more than a few weeks after the intro course.

Syntax Error: I had 60 hours in March and I will have similar in April... no leave. Much more in May, though.
dirk85 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2016, 08:54
  #278 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 280
Normally NO serious company is offering a direct entry UPGRADE to any pilot. DEC is a different story, and there you have the interview/sim plus the linetraining to have a close look at them.

FO as Captain is difficult, which airline wants to risk to put someone on the left seat being completely new in the company and never been in command on anything serious?

Of course they want to look at you, see you on the line with different pilots/crews, see how you can deal with them and the aircraft(after all, a Captain is nowadays primarily a manager, then a pilot).
Then at least one Sim check in the company to have another look at you. If that is right you start an upgrading. That's what I(and most airlines) understand under "fast track".

Not fair to FO's that have been long in the company, but if you are the only one that fulfills the requirements for upgrade(hour wise) then it is acceptable.
tomuchwork is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2016, 09:16
  #279 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Air
Posts: 8
"tomuchwork" yours is a very rational, positive and fair post.

I was also interested in clarifying this kind of position, which I consider very interesting for a senior First Officier looking around.

If you are prepared and even lucky ideally the path could be like this I suppose:

-Type rating
-Line training
-6 months / 500 hrs
-Sim check /evaluation
-Command course

One year ?

If anyone even know about type rating deduction scheme it would be also appreciated.
Pony 10 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2016, 11:14
  #280 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 1,643
3 years pro rata bond, 415 eur a month deducted from your salary for a total of 15000 quatloos.
dirk85 is offline  

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