Monarch in turbulence
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Under a Rock
Scallywag
This is the plight of our Monarch colleagues!
If Monarch adopt fully the LCC model then they will have to adopt the techniques employed by EZY and RYR re costs of FO crewing. They will have to compete
If Monarch does not survive they will be on the dole or heading for the Sandpit...if they are lucky.
I hope that things turn out for the better for the people at Monarch; I'm just not sure what that is?
If Monarch adopt fully the LCC model then they will have to adopt the techniques employed by EZY and RYR re costs of FO crewing. They will have to compete
If Monarch does not survive they will be on the dole or heading for the Sandpit...if they are lucky.
I hope that things turn out for the better for the people at Monarch; I'm just not sure what that is?
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 919
Likes: 6
From: uk
Semi Skilled or Skilled?
The problem is one of perception. The general public is the 1950's through to the 70's regarded anyone who flew aircraft as a bit special. The golden years of a new and romantic industry in a time when Travel was something special and largely done by only an elite few. From there on we have become regarded as arrogant and overpaid in the 80's and now, finally, as little more than an overpaid train driver. The last, IMHO, is down to the impression that we do little other than stare at the screens and read the newspapers, automation has damaged our reputation by making the mundane part of our life, flying from A to B, appear easy, which it is compared to a pilot of the 1950's. But, on a dark and stormy night, with a failure and little excess fuel we become the highly skilled professionals that the public rarely hear about.( Capt. Sullenberger being the obvious exception) And we are worth a darn sight more than we are paid and deserve a darn sight more respect than our employers regularly show us.
It doesn't matter how OFTEN you have to use this skill, it matters that you have it ready when it is needed.
The problem is one of perception. The general public is the 1950's through to the 70's regarded anyone who flew aircraft as a bit special. The golden years of a new and romantic industry in a time when Travel was something special and largely done by only an elite few. From there on we have become regarded as arrogant and overpaid in the 80's and now, finally, as little more than an overpaid train driver. The last, IMHO, is down to the impression that we do little other than stare at the screens and read the newspapers, automation has damaged our reputation by making the mundane part of our life, flying from A to B, appear easy, which it is compared to a pilot of the 1950's. But, on a dark and stormy night, with a failure and little excess fuel we become the highly skilled professionals that the public rarely hear about.( Capt. Sullenberger being the obvious exception) And we are worth a darn sight more than we are paid and deserve a darn sight more respect than our employers regularly show us.
It doesn't matter how OFTEN you have to use this skill, it matters that you have it ready when it is needed.
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Lgw
Line up ,
I agree with your post & many others on here but we need someone like Balpa to start & help us all out here.
If you look at how much Balpa are getting from pilots annually , it's an astonishing amount of money .
I have been on at my crew council but think we all need to push our own colleagues to get Balpa to talk pan company & do something to provide a framework for looking after our careers.
First Choice a couple of years ago made redundancies & went to great efforts to help the unfortunate few get replacements.
Wouldn't it be great if Balpa could actually DO something on our behalf particularly for those who , like the more senior guys at Monarch have a great deal to loose , if they were interested in helping they could perhaps negotiate with other companies who we know have a requirement for Captains & experience , to prevent these guys loosing everything when there's insufficient time to rebuild a pension fund or re-climb the ladder.
I hope Monarch don't need it but let's get on with it before its too late .
I agree with your post & many others on here but we need someone like Balpa to start & help us all out here.
If you look at how much Balpa are getting from pilots annually , it's an astonishing amount of money .
I have been on at my crew council but think we all need to push our own colleagues to get Balpa to talk pan company & do something to provide a framework for looking after our careers.
First Choice a couple of years ago made redundancies & went to great efforts to help the unfortunate few get replacements.
Wouldn't it be great if Balpa could actually DO something on our behalf particularly for those who , like the more senior guys at Monarch have a great deal to loose , if they were interested in helping they could perhaps negotiate with other companies who we know have a requirement for Captains & experience , to prevent these guys loosing everything when there's insufficient time to rebuild a pension fund or re-climb the ladder.
I hope Monarch don't need it but let's get on with it before its too late .
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
The route cause lies with EZY and RYR who have ruthlessly driven costs out of the airline model at every level to deliver "cheap" flying for the masses.
If the information is correct SWA have cheap prices and high salaries and happy crews and pax. If they can get it right why can not the copy cats?
I'm not a member of BALPA or IAPLA, but, I read your distrust and lack of expectations here, and quotes of past lackings. I'm curious. BALPA seem to do OK by BA, or am I wrong. How much of the 1% of non-BA airlines go back to helping their causes, and how much goes into the BALPA pot which is directed towards helping internal local BA causes? Surely there must be an audit of BALPA accounts and you will be able to see how much has been spent, and where, and see what return you've had on your investment/membership dues directly with your company. Equally, about 4 years ago there was a massive drive by IALPA to recruit RYR members. They must have had a massive influx of cash, easily over €1m, but what have the members seen for their contribution. Just where does all this dosh go? There seems to be a black hole, considering how the unions have allowed the industry to decline in economic standing for its members. Someone must know.
If the information is correct SWA have cheap prices and high salaries and happy crews and pax. If they can get it right why can not the copy cats?
I'm not a member of BALPA or IAPLA, but, I read your distrust and lack of expectations here, and quotes of past lackings. I'm curious. BALPA seem to do OK by BA, or am I wrong. How much of the 1% of non-BA airlines go back to helping their causes, and how much goes into the BALPA pot which is directed towards helping internal local BA causes? Surely there must be an audit of BALPA accounts and you will be able to see how much has been spent, and where, and see what return you've had on your investment/membership dues directly with your company. Equally, about 4 years ago there was a massive drive by IALPA to recruit RYR members. They must have had a massive influx of cash, easily over €1m, but what have the members seen for their contribution. Just where does all this dosh go? There seems to be a black hole, considering how the unions have allowed the industry to decline in economic standing for its members. Someone must know.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: UK
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
From: Earth
The Monarch Group - Monarch secures ?125 million of permanent capital and liquidity facilities through sale to Greybull Capital
They better not let all those years of hard work, dedication and professionalism go to waste for the sake of short term gain. Monarch staff past and present have sacrificed SO much for the sake of a continued future. My best wishes go to all concerned.
They better not let all those years of hard work, dedication and professionalism go to waste for the sake of short term gain. Monarch staff past and present have sacrificed SO much for the sake of a continued future. My best wishes go to all concerned.
Last edited by Whiskey Zulu; 25th October 2014 at 06:22.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,766
Likes: 4
From: Here and there
So Monarch are gomg lo-cost and short haul only ,but Ryanair are thinking about selling holidays and Jet 2 are going into long haul to SFB next year with an A330. Seabury consulting are US based where charter flying does not exist so they come up with a plan for Mon to be a minnow against the lo-co big boys. The family meanwhile have invested £50m which is strangely close to the deposit for the B737 max which Seabury have decided the airline needs even though it is shortly to become a purely Airbus operator.Another part of Seabury helped in the sale of the company.
I wonder if all the ties lead back to Lugano or the Lady Marina?
I wonder if all the ties lead back to Lugano or the Lady Marina?
Last edited by tubby linton; 24th October 2014 at 22:57.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 348
Likes: 3
As an ex Monarch employee I am delighted to hear the news.
I wish everyone at George VI Airlines every possible success.
However, is it realistic that this revamped operation can make money in the shadow of EZY and RYR. without their economies of scale ? whilst being saddled with a massive pensions deficit.
So sorry but if the spotty M is still operating this time next year I will eat my hat.
(PS four of the airlines I have worked for are no longer operating so I DO know how such things effect ever single employee at every level and the heart ache involved )
I wish everyone at George VI Airlines every possible success.
However, is it realistic that this revamped operation can make money in the shadow of EZY and RYR. without their economies of scale ? whilst being saddled with a massive pensions deficit.
So sorry but if the spotty M is still operating this time next year I will eat my hat.
(PS four of the airlines I have worked for are no longer operating so I DO know how such things effect ever single employee at every level and the heart ache involved )
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: uk
waco
"whilst being saddled with a massive pensions deficit"
As an ex employee, you obviously weren't in the DB scheme....otherwise you would have read the details of the pension in the email sent a few hours ago.
Suffice to say, Mon will not be saddled with any deficit.........
"whilst being saddled with a massive pensions deficit"
As an ex employee, you obviously weren't in the DB scheme....otherwise you would have read the details of the pension in the email sent a few hours ago.
Suffice to say, Mon will not be saddled with any deficit.........
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 193
Likes: 1
From: Sand free now
This is awesome good news. We do not need a whole industry dominated by two major players. Monarch will be small and time will tell whether their scale is great enough to cope and generate what will be required. But significant changes have been made and huge sacrifices taken by the staff. But it is a good brand so I am hopeful. So so pleased that 34 aircraft are retained instead of 30. This has made a difference in terms of the number of redundancies. I think that all should be really happy that this brand stays in the air. It will not hurt or threaten EZY or RYR so all should be cheered by todays news.