LH cancels 3,800 flights due to pilot strike
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: in a cigar lounge smoking a Partagas P2
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hussar 54 :
When you're in a hole ... stop digging 
If so, good luck with the strike if you've joined in - it's your company that I have a problem with, not you guys...
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you're probably right....
So here goes....
Greedy Lufthansa Skygods....Already the best paid in Europe and they still want more....
!
There you are....Feel better ?
If, on the other hand, you prefer the twin benefits for Lufthansa of ( 1 ) Air Berlin going down the tubes and around 2,000 flight crew hitting the unemployent lines and ( 2 ) Lufthansa having a 90% plus market share on routes between Germany <> Austria <> Switzerland <> Belgium with Air Berlin out of the way, then just continue to ignore Lufthansa's spoiling tactics....
Big business and politics in Germany is an old boys network, and the relationship between Lufthansa and the EC Commissioners is unhealthy...
Don't agree with me ??
Etihad buys a minority stake in Air Berlin....Lufthansa cries foul....And the EC decide this merits an investigation....
SUBSIDIARIES OF THE LUFTHANSA GROUP
Cityline wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa March 1992
Luxair owned 13% acquired December 1992
BMI acquired 20% of BMI, July 1999
Air Dolomiti wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa July 2003
Eurowings wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa December 2006
Germanwings wholly owned 100%, acquired via Eurowings December 2006
Sun Express owned 50%, acquired February 2007
BMI acquired further 10% of BMI, July 2007
Swiss International wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa July 2007
AeroLogic owned 50% since September 2007
Jet Blue Airways owned 15.8% since December 2007
Brussels Airlines owned 45% since September 2008 with an option to purchase the remaining 55%
BMI acquired remaining 50% of BMI, October 2008
Eidelweiss wholly owned 100%, acquired via Swiss International November 2008
Austrian Airlines wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa September 2009
Tyrolean Airways wholly owned 100%, acquired via Austrian September 2009
BMI sold 100% to IAG, March 2012
Amazingly, only two of these 16 acquisitions and the single disposal attracted the attention of the ECs Competition Commissioners
In June 2008, the Austrian Government were advised to sell AUA to foreign ownership, and Aeroflot, Singapore Airlines, Turkish Airlines, BA, AF-KLM, S7 and Lufthansa all approached the Austrian Government as potential buyers. In September 2008, it was announced that Lufthansa had been selected as the buyer. In July 2009, the EC finally agreed to an enquiry into the deal, after it was revealed that the Austrian Government had committed to provide the airline with a 500 million restructuring grant once the deal has been closed AF KL complained that this had not been openly communicated to the other companies interested in acquiring AUA, but the Austrian Government refused to hold a re-tendering process and completed a deal with Lufthansa. The EC stated that it had suspicions that The tendering process was a fake one, everything having already been decided in favour of Lufthansa Just three months later, the Commission waived the deal through after Lufthansa agreed to change the structure of the deal retrospectively .
And the disposal of BMI to IAG in 2012 was only allowed to proceed by the EC Competition Commission after IAG agreed to give up 14 slots at Heathrow. But as an IAG Senior Manager reportedly said to a Press Briefing at the time Its a small price to pay, because if wasnt Lufthansa selling it to us, we certainly wouldnt have been allowed to buy BMI .
You're not Lufthansa management yourself, are you ? Just asking, because I seem to have touched a nerve with yourself and Airbourne...
So here goes....
Greedy Lufthansa Skygods....Already the best paid in Europe and they still want more....
!There you are....Feel better ?
If, on the other hand, you prefer the twin benefits for Lufthansa of ( 1 ) Air Berlin going down the tubes and around 2,000 flight crew hitting the unemployent lines and ( 2 ) Lufthansa having a 90% plus market share on routes between Germany <> Austria <> Switzerland <> Belgium with Air Berlin out of the way, then just continue to ignore Lufthansa's spoiling tactics....
Big business and politics in Germany is an old boys network, and the relationship between Lufthansa and the EC Commissioners is unhealthy...
Don't agree with me ??
Etihad buys a minority stake in Air Berlin....Lufthansa cries foul....And the EC decide this merits an investigation....
SUBSIDIARIES OF THE LUFTHANSA GROUP
Cityline wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa March 1992
Luxair owned 13% acquired December 1992
BMI acquired 20% of BMI, July 1999
Air Dolomiti wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa July 2003
Eurowings wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa December 2006
Germanwings wholly owned 100%, acquired via Eurowings December 2006
Sun Express owned 50%, acquired February 2007
BMI acquired further 10% of BMI, July 2007
Swiss International wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa July 2007
AeroLogic owned 50% since September 2007
Jet Blue Airways owned 15.8% since December 2007
Brussels Airlines owned 45% since September 2008 with an option to purchase the remaining 55%
BMI acquired remaining 50% of BMI, October 2008
Eidelweiss wholly owned 100%, acquired via Swiss International November 2008
Austrian Airlines wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa September 2009
Tyrolean Airways wholly owned 100%, acquired via Austrian September 2009
BMI sold 100% to IAG, March 2012
Amazingly, only two of these 16 acquisitions and the single disposal attracted the attention of the ECs Competition Commissioners
In June 2008, the Austrian Government were advised to sell AUA to foreign ownership, and Aeroflot, Singapore Airlines, Turkish Airlines, BA, AF-KLM, S7 and Lufthansa all approached the Austrian Government as potential buyers. In September 2008, it was announced that Lufthansa had been selected as the buyer. In July 2009, the EC finally agreed to an enquiry into the deal, after it was revealed that the Austrian Government had committed to provide the airline with a 500 million restructuring grant once the deal has been closed AF KL complained that this had not been openly communicated to the other companies interested in acquiring AUA, but the Austrian Government refused to hold a re-tendering process and completed a deal with Lufthansa. The EC stated that it had suspicions that The tendering process was a fake one, everything having already been decided in favour of Lufthansa Just three months later, the Commission waived the deal through after Lufthansa agreed to change the structure of the deal retrospectively .
And the disposal of BMI to IAG in 2012 was only allowed to proceed by the EC Competition Commission after IAG agreed to give up 14 slots at Heathrow. But as an IAG Senior Manager reportedly said to a Press Briefing at the time Its a small price to pay, because if wasnt Lufthansa selling it to us, we certainly wouldnt have been allowed to buy BMI .
You're not Lufthansa management yourself, are you ? Just asking, because I seem to have touched a nerve with yourself and Airbourne...
Last edited by Hussar 54; 4th Apr 2014 at 21:19. Reason: Italics - wrong date....
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The main issue according to the VC website (union) is the right to retire at 55. Their standpoint is that this is effectively cost neutral as the older pilots cost more and replacement pilots start at the bottom of the pay scale so cost less. They go on to say that this is already paid for, so is already in the pension pot. At first sight this argument seems to have some merit.
However so far I have not seen any concrete numbers. The counter argument would be that as life expectancy increases and investment returns decrease most pension funds and indeed state pension schemes are facing huge deficits. I confess I do not know the details of the LH scheme's funding. But I would be amazed if it is does not face some of these issues.
Lufthansa shut down the network for three days and anounced a strike cost in the tens of millions. But they have said they do not intend to make a better offer. The suspicion must be that LH management have picked where they want to fight.
However so far I have not seen any concrete numbers. The counter argument would be that as life expectancy increases and investment returns decrease most pension funds and indeed state pension schemes are facing huge deficits. I confess I do not know the details of the LH scheme's funding. But I would be amazed if it is does not face some of these issues.
Lufthansa shut down the network for three days and anounced a strike cost in the tens of millions. But they have said they do not intend to make a better offer. The suspicion must be that LH management have picked where they want to fight.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: in a cigar lounge smoking a Partagas P2
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hussar 54
Nope, retired at 56 some years back and enjoying life... 
... so keep digging, it's your hole and I couldn't care less about your foggy theories, hope they keep giving you a nice heartburn ...
You're not Lufthansa management yourself, are you ? Just asking, because I seem to have touched a nerve with yourself and Airbourne...
... so keep digging, it's your hole and I couldn't care less about your foggy theories, hope they keep giving you a nice heartburn ...
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 56
Posts: 2,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Etihad buys a minority stake in Air Berlin....Lufthansa cries foul....And the EC decide this merits an investigation....
And if you honestly think Etihad & the other guys from the gulf play on an even field, then you are most likely really ...... .
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: where the money is
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Justified or not?
I disapprove some of my LH colleagues' snotty attitude, whining about their tough working conditions, covering different time zones and climates, working at night etc..
But they are right.
It only takes one high profile mishap which can be attributed to bad decision making, flawed maintenance or whatever and the jobs of an entire company are in danger. So, in principle I do support their fight against deteriorating working conditions of the industry as a whole because: everybody's watching this fight.
And why on earth should LH pilots pay for their managements flawed decisions in the past? I don't see why they should.
Maintaining airplanes is expensive, training good people is expensive. Cutting cost and cutting corners cannot be the universal solution.
The question should be: where is a viable concept? How does LH intend to deal with the LCCs in Europe and the competition on the long haul in the ME or in Turkey, for example? I cannot see one and that's why I as a passenger am asking myself: what do I get for paying extra flying with LH (or 4U)?
The question is also a strategic one and has to do with what sort of airline industry Europe wants and what it is ready to pay for that. As long as there is no clear concept nor unified efforts, LH is fighting an uphill battle that they cannot win.
Also true: if the LH pilots really cared about the future of their employer, they should join the forces with their colleagues in the cabin and on the ground. Because: they are already paying the price for a downsizing of salaries.
Good luck though!
But they are right.
It only takes one high profile mishap which can be attributed to bad decision making, flawed maintenance or whatever and the jobs of an entire company are in danger. So, in principle I do support their fight against deteriorating working conditions of the industry as a whole because: everybody's watching this fight.
And why on earth should LH pilots pay for their managements flawed decisions in the past? I don't see why they should.
Maintaining airplanes is expensive, training good people is expensive. Cutting cost and cutting corners cannot be the universal solution.
The question should be: where is a viable concept? How does LH intend to deal with the LCCs in Europe and the competition on the long haul in the ME or in Turkey, for example? I cannot see one and that's why I as a passenger am asking myself: what do I get for paying extra flying with LH (or 4U)?
The question is also a strategic one and has to do with what sort of airline industry Europe wants and what it is ready to pay for that. As long as there is no clear concept nor unified efforts, LH is fighting an uphill battle that they cannot win.
Also true: if the LH pilots really cared about the future of their employer, they should join the forces with their colleagues in the cabin and on the ground. Because: they are already paying the price for a downsizing of salaries.
Good luck though!
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surprised no mention of yet another strike....
That's what - 11 in just over a year ?
Can't imagine the comments and frog-bashing we'd have on here if this was happening at Air France....
But genuinely glad to see that there are some pilot groups who still have the balls to try to halt the race to the bottom....
Pilots' union calls two-day strike at Lufthansa's Germanwings | Reuters
That's what - 11 in just over a year ?
Can't imagine the comments and frog-bashing we'd have on here if this was happening at Air France....
But genuinely glad to see that there are some pilot groups who still have the balls to try to halt the race to the bottom....
Pilots' union calls two-day strike at Lufthansa's Germanwings | Reuters
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: EU
Age: 45
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vereinigung Cockpit
Absolute support to Vereinigung Cockpit! We must understand that we are all in same business and must suppott each other in this hard moments for pilots worldwide.. We must not be vane, jealous..
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LH managed to operate about 60% of the longhaul flights scheduled on the 19th. Some flights being covered by management pilots, while others who would otherwise be striking have no problem operating the flight as scheduled as it is their ride home...
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sky
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In view of the current onslaught by the ME3 and as they are facing the consequences I think that the groundcrew have a good point...
Whether it was a good way to pass the message is to be debated...
Whether it was a good way to pass the message is to be debated...
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from Old Cathusian
I think this is well put. I'm a long in the tooth unapologetic person when it comes to this subject. You fight for your terms because you want your terms. You don't use tenuous, barely believable ideas or threats (such as "smoking holes" when talking about experience levels). Call a spade a spade. Companies themselves fight for work because they want money. They don't throw a tantrum if they don't win that ACMI contract, citing ideals. It's dog eat and they treat us the same. So we as workers have to treat them the same. The toothless get ruthless.
A comment further back alluded to public blaming LH and getting annoyed with the company for this. In my opinion striking never garners public support. Well it does, unless they're a customer! In the minors strikes the lights go out or in this case you miss your holiday. Then you can bet your ass it won't be the company they're annoyed with. It'll be those " £&)@ pilots"!!!! That's the downside to striking, but you're not doing it to win public support. It's last resort time.
There are no high minded principles involved in this dispute just a desire to maintain a rather privileged situation by the pilots and a desire to eliminate it by the company. That being said this post does not represent any judgement on who is correct in this dispute.
A comment further back alluded to public blaming LH and getting annoyed with the company for this. In my opinion striking never garners public support. Well it does, unless they're a customer! In the minors strikes the lights go out or in this case you miss your holiday. Then you can bet your ass it won't be the company they're annoyed with. It'll be those " £&)@ pilots"!!!! That's the downside to striking, but you're not doing it to win public support. It's last resort time.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wouldn't like to be dispatching LH flights out of YVR in the very near future, better be a flawless turn 
It's good to see a workforce not accept the constant onslaught of reductions to contracts/agreements. If legacy carriers loose the fight in this area we are all screwed.
It's good to see a workforce not accept the constant onslaught of reductions to contracts/agreements. If legacy carriers loose the fight in this area we are all screwed.
The person(s) who sent that acars to an operational crew should be sacked immediately. The implications from the CRM perspective are significant. The lack of understanding from ground personnel on the technical complexities of operating a modern jet transport are mind blowing yet we all work in the same industry. It is probably inconvenient to rebook a wide body load of passengers but the industrial relations between LH and the pilot group has nothing to do with check in agents. The lack of respect for the pilots demonstrated here is a result of the 'dumbing - down' of the industry which resonates conveniently with the bean counter view of pilots as overpaid bus drivers. I am actually shocked by the vindictive nature of this acars; I very much hope that the LH crew reported this and disciplinary action followed by immediate termination of the jobs of those responsible has taken place.
Last edited by olster; 22nd Mar 2015 at 07:07. Reason: grammar!
