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Have around 300 pilots left RYR lately?

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Have around 300 pilots left RYR lately?

Old 16th Mar 2014, 09:05
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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an AVG of 2 pilots a day have left RYN over winter months. Report from a NOR CAPT that they have taken 500 from RYN.

I know RYN are stressed about the amount leaving but they will never admit it to anyone.

Over the winter in my base. 5 capts gone and 2 senior FO's. Im in a small base
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 07:58
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Heard a rumour (I suppose this is the place for it..) that they are having to wet lease aircraft and dry lease a few more, for the summer season. Any truth in this?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 12:49
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I have heard that some are going into Dublin, so for those wanting Dublin base no summer contracts are being for there, not sure about other bases though.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 14:02
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Heard 4 in DUB and 6 in STN.
No summer contracts.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 14:19
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Some aircraft coming from flydubai as far as I'm aware.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 14:40
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Also, one other company sending 2 planes from Central Europe. They are 400s!
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 15:42
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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after new exciting 6 years (?) deal in STN everyone understood the message...
greed must be punished
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 16:17
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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In 1996 and 1997, I worked for a European carrier who over the period of a few years prior to 1997 had got used to having a plentiful supply of Pilots. As a result of course the conditions got worse and worse. The morale got very low. All of a sudden at the end of 1997 the market opened up for Pilots and in the one month of November 30% of Pilots just left. They put salaries up quickly after that but it was too little too late. They were paying high leasing costs for aircraft that they had to sit on the ground. They were out of business a short time later.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 17:18
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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In 1996 and 1997, I worked for a European carrier who over the period of a few years prior to 1997 had got used to having a plentiful supply of Pilots. As a result of course the conditions got worse and worse. The morale got very low. All of a sudden at the end of 1997 the market opened up for Pilots and in the one month of November 30% of Pilots just left. They put salaries up quickly after that but it was too little too late. They were paying high leasing costs for aircraft that they had to sit on the ground. They were out of business a short time later.
If there only was a Like button..

after new exciting 6 years (?) deal in STN everyone understood the message…
.. and a Dislike.

Is it something similar to the DUB offer?
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 21:08
  #70 (permalink)  
F14
 
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actually I worked for a European Carrier in 96-97 too. GO Airlines opened and took 5 out of 6 from my batch. 100% pay rises after that, 737 FO's 19300-38000 pa.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 22:05
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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I think we are all looking very much forward to eating popcorn and watching the Irish machine grind to a halt as the exodus of crew ramps up. Lets enjoy it.
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Old 22nd Mar 2014, 22:14
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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FR

Well maybe the continuos rush of English wannabes will dry up but I
Doubt it, plus the UK flight schools will just keep reeling in young hopefuls,
FR are now so big they set the standard in Europe, albeit a very low one for
Current and future employees , I for one take no pleasure in watching
Our industry continue the race to the bottom
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 01:19
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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I think we all know that there will always be a continuous supply of wet-behind-the-ears, young 200hr pilots desperate to do any flying job at any salary and to accept any terms and conditions. That is not where the problem lies. The difficulty lies with the retention of captains who will not stay at the scum airlines like Ryanair one day longer than they have to. Norwegian have provided a genuine alternative to Ryanair for 737NG-rated captains and they are understandably flocking there. O'Leary has sown the seeds of his own airline's destruction and frankly it could not happen to a better guy. I do not particularly like Norwegian, but all they have to do is be a little bit better as an employer than Ryanair (not the hardest task some might argue), and they will have an infinite supply of captains to fuel their expansion. How they handle their expansion into the Airbus world remains to be seen - but they will sure have to try hard to get significant numbers of experienced pilots, particularly training captains, to leave easyJet like the Ryanair guys have. EasyJet has lost one guy (top ex-BA captain) to go onto the 787 as a trainer, but that is the only one I know of.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 08:51
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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The obscene percentage of raw cadet recruitment by Ryanair and Easyjet whilst there are so many pilots already trained and experienced across europe is the biggest cause for the downward spiral. All that will happen is that OAA and CTC will simply offer more raw cadets from their extensive hold pools and ramp up operations to cover the shortfalls.

For anyone with a modicum of lateral thought will see the stagnation and the effect this career path via the big FTOs through the two low class low cost operators is having on the industry as a whole.

Dont hold much hope that Ryanair will fail, they are geared up to see their way through this, as are easyjet.

These two companies in conjunction with there "PREFERRED TRAINING SUPPLIERS" are responsible for putting so many experienced guys out of work across europe through their respective expansions - yet have done precious little to ensure these experienced and well trained pilots that have already passed through high standard training departments and hold good no incident or untoward backgrounds find work. They have simply replaced them with raw heavily debted cadets with no experience.

These cadets once gaining experience at the loco locos often jump ship to the better operators like emirates and to a lesser extend Norwegian and the process continues.

I did read a rumour on here that the owner of CTC recently bought a new Aston Martin. And im quite sure there are benefits been made at specific points within certain influential points within the system. Meanwhile the degradation for the masses continues.

Dont hold your breath people, the aston martins for some and the reduced t's & c's for almost all will continue for the forseeable future.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 09:49
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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It is surprising how quickly things can change. If you have been round this industry long enough you may remember the days when the likes of Britannia were phoning round the flying schools asking if they had anyone approaching 700 hours looking for a job. Things have changed somewhat in that the training system is much more structured these days, but the movement of captains will trickle down the ladder and in turn the jobs will come to those looking for a first officer position. The lead time for the training establishments is too long for them to react to a sudden fluctuation in the numbers required and the airlines will have to look elsewhere for first officers.

Back to Ryanair, and they will be the first to feel the effects and deservedly so.

ADM, I think that Norwegian will have no problems filling the Airbus seats if the contract and basing opportunities are attractive enough. Alicante or Malaga would suit me fine thanks.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 10:31
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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10002 level

I disagree when you say that the lead times are too long and first officers will get jobs.

As soon as the UK airlines need someone they call up ctc and they pluck someone out the pool. Simples.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 12:42
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Alexander

You wear a cheap plastic anorak to work just like many of the Ryanair guys do. You are in a "scum" airline like Ryanair who employs guys/girls on zero hour flexi contracts earning close to 1200 quid a month after already paying 10k for an Airbus type rating. You are in an airline who asks experienced guys to pay 25k for a rating, and then employs the "lucky" few on a starting salary of 38k with nothing on top of that. The rest are flexi zero hour contractors.

I don't "particularly" like Easyjet. I can't stand them. Why are the only scruffy looking pilots walking through LGW you lot?
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 12:48
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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The bad news is

Air Transport Capacity in Western Europe - A Market Snapshot :: Routesonline


These two LCC are so far ahead that it's impossible for the race to the bottom
To be stopped, a shame.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 13:32
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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John Smith- If you believe that experience is a fundamentally important part of Flight Safety, In combination with good Quality training. Then it is clear that the other Airlines which you quoted are safer Airlines as they have more respect for experience.

As I have stated in previous posts it is a fact that Pilots get safer with experience. Please ask any 50 year old Pilot if he believes he is safer now than he was when he was 30.

If you have a fantastic selection procedure which selects only the top 5% of Pilots at 200 hours then maybe you can achieve acceptable multi-crew safety. Easyjet may select but it is all based on money, not on safety.

Therefore it is not subjective at all which airlines are "better".

Easy jet and Ryanair are"training" Airlines.

Last edited by polax52; 23rd Mar 2014 at 14:33.
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Old 23rd Mar 2014, 19:57
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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1. A surprising number of pilots do not pass Ryanair selection.
2. I have flown with a number of 50 plus pilots whose attitude to safety boils down to "It'll never happen to me".
So there.
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