Stop bashing "P2F"
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Crawley, UK
Stop bashing "P2F"
I'm 19-years-old. I got a job with easyJet two months after my nineteenth birthday and I now have just over 200 hours on type to go with the 160 I got at OAA. I'm lucky and I believe you make your own luck in flying. This is also based on what I'm told being a third generation pilot with both my Father and my Grandad flying forty-plus year careers with British Airways and it's predecessors.
P2F is the future because it makes no sense in growing older after having just paid all the money you do to obtain a fATPL and sitting on your backside doing
, working menial jobs or taking flying positions that don't allow you do to what you ultimately want - fly a jet. If you are happy to piston pound and fly turboprops all day, fair play, but don't bash someone who invests in their future by paying money for something that ALL the airlines today want - a type rating and hours on type.
It is a gamble but you don't get anywhere without taking a risk. I did not pay for my type rating or my line training and I was lucky that I went straight in from OAA. Others are not as lucky and are making their own luck. If you do not have the money, cannot justify it or are for whatever reason unable to pay for a type rating or hours on type, it's going to be a long wait for you to get a job in this climate on a jet and even if you are able, you'll essentially pay for it through a lesser salary or in another way.
My advice is if you have the money, pay it and take a leap of faith - everyone will eventually have to do the same, you'll just reap the rewards earlier.
P2F is the future because it makes no sense in growing older after having just paid all the money you do to obtain a fATPL and sitting on your backside doing
, working menial jobs or taking flying positions that don't allow you do to what you ultimately want - fly a jet. If you are happy to piston pound and fly turboprops all day, fair play, but don't bash someone who invests in their future by paying money for something that ALL the airlines today want - a type rating and hours on type.It is a gamble but you don't get anywhere without taking a risk. I did not pay for my type rating or my line training and I was lucky that I went straight in from OAA. Others are not as lucky and are making their own luck. If you do not have the money, cannot justify it or are for whatever reason unable to pay for a type rating or hours on type, it's going to be a long wait for you to get a job in this climate on a jet and even if you are able, you'll essentially pay for it through a lesser salary or in another way.
My advice is if you have the money, pay it and take a leap of faith - everyone will eventually have to do the same, you'll just reap the rewards earlier.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: England
Quite right OP! Its not your fault if you've got more luck in your bank account than the others. Make hay before the airlines go back to using that other currency "skill", whatever that is...
The Great Pilot Shortage of the 21st Century
The Great Pilot Shortage of the 21st Century
Joined: Jan 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 46
From: Between a rock and a hard place
19_flying_A_jet …
Narcissism is a term that originated with Narcissus in Greek mythology who fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water
Narcissism is a term that originated with Narcissus in Greek mythology who fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Europe
It is a gamble but you don't get anywhere without taking a risk
Paying for type ratings,yes I agree with whether bonded or after successful interview with job guarantee,this is the reality now as too many in the past abused the system.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: France
I agree.
There's plenty of the 'good ole days' boys on this board, so you only ever hear those who never had to deal with P2F in the first place. They're full of buzzwords but typically their opinions have very little substance.
Even in this thread it's been suggested that you should refuse such schemes. Unfortunately that only works if everyone else does the same. How do people propose we accomplish that? Hold a giant tea party for all unemployed pilots and make them pinky promise they won't do it? Perhaps send round a polite email?
Of course all of those pilots will now need to build hundreds of hours. Thank god there's an abundance of available flying positions worldwide. Hang on, no, that's not true at all, is it?
P2F started a long time ago, probably before the threadstarter even muttered his first word. As with all pilots today, they start their training in a P2F environment. It's all very well lambasting a student for playing the game, but it's a neccessary evil when the alternative is sitting on your arse at home, or managing to find a flight instructors position that doesn't actually cost you money. Of course, in that position they could make a self-congratulatory post on PPrune whilst their ratings lapse and their skills diminish, but at least they'd have the comfort of being congratulated by many who were put through their training and employment without any real financial cost.
The threadstarter didn't create the P2F culture, he just has to live with it.
There's plenty of the 'good ole days' boys on this board, so you only ever hear those who never had to deal with P2F in the first place. They're full of buzzwords but typically their opinions have very little substance.
Even in this thread it's been suggested that you should refuse such schemes. Unfortunately that only works if everyone else does the same. How do people propose we accomplish that? Hold a giant tea party for all unemployed pilots and make them pinky promise they won't do it? Perhaps send round a polite email?
Of course all of those pilots will now need to build hundreds of hours. Thank god there's an abundance of available flying positions worldwide. Hang on, no, that's not true at all, is it?
P2F started a long time ago, probably before the threadstarter even muttered his first word. As with all pilots today, they start their training in a P2F environment. It's all very well lambasting a student for playing the game, but it's a neccessary evil when the alternative is sitting on your arse at home, or managing to find a flight instructors position that doesn't actually cost you money. Of course, in that position they could make a self-congratulatory post on PPrune whilst their ratings lapse and their skills diminish, but at least they'd have the comfort of being congratulated by many who were put through their training and employment without any real financial cost.
The threadstarter didn't create the P2F culture, he just has to live with it.
Está servira para distraerle.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: In a perambulator.
There's a story doing the rounds that new candidates for entry into a certain well known Eiry/Brit regional airline are going to have to provide their own aircraft on loan to the airline.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 393
Likes: 94
From: UK
Now lwt's get something straight son !!!
I believe you make your own luck in flying.
after having just paid all the money you do to obtain a fATPL
someone who invests in their future by paying
It is a gamble but you don't get anywhere without taking a risk.
take a leap of faith
after having just paid all the money you do to obtain a fATPL
someone who invests in their future by paying
It is a gamble but you don't get anywhere without taking a risk.
take a leap of faith
You didn't pay !
You didn't do the investing !
You didn't take the risk !
and finally, you didn't take a leap of faith !
and if, in between leaving school and starting at oxford you earned the money for the course then you have my sincere and humble apologies
Está servira para distraerle.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6
Likes: 1
From: In a perambulator.
He's right though, troll that he might be. The guys that made his correctness possible are those that allowed themselves to be bonded to airlines for the type rating in the past. Pilots are the most useless of trade unionists and so the tariff to fly is high.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: LONDON
Troll or not, truth is he is right sadly. The system has changed forever.
You can't co-ordinate action among low hour pilots because it's akin to herding cats. It's dog eat dog now.
I did the self improver route... glider towing, para dropping and now on a medium TP but don't see myself moving onto jets anytime soon due to the way the system works now. It will take a lot more networking and a fair dab of luck.
At the same time, I know a guy who started more or less same time as me and did P2F with bmi then got into easy. He is now gearing up for a command. His 30k gamble paid off and he is years ahead now in terms of both career and money. He essentially made his own luck albeit with massive stakes.
Whilst I value the varied flying I have done and have had great experiences working my way up the industry, I don't have a pot to pi$$ in and have to be constantly reminded by my boss that there are people queuing round the block for my job if I don't like it.
All told though, I would not change it. My experiences have made me the person I am and the Pilot I am and for that I am thankful. These are my stories to bore people in the cruise with. What will be your stories Mr 19yr old?
You can't co-ordinate action among low hour pilots because it's akin to herding cats. It's dog eat dog now.
I did the self improver route... glider towing, para dropping and now on a medium TP but don't see myself moving onto jets anytime soon due to the way the system works now. It will take a lot more networking and a fair dab of luck.
At the same time, I know a guy who started more or less same time as me and did P2F with bmi then got into easy. He is now gearing up for a command. His 30k gamble paid off and he is years ahead now in terms of both career and money. He essentially made his own luck albeit with massive stakes.
Whilst I value the varied flying I have done and have had great experiences working my way up the industry, I don't have a pot to pi$$ in and have to be constantly reminded by my boss that there are people queuing round the block for my job if I don't like it.
All told though, I would not change it. My experiences have made me the person I am and the Pilot I am and for that I am thankful. These are my stories to bore people in the cruise with. What will be your stories Mr 19yr old?
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
From: -
Well, I guess it is enough to ban him, isn't it? This is supposed to be a forum for professionals and future professionals (hopefully).
