Qatar Airways " Think long and Hard"
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Toddler,
As mentioned before, the type of management in application in QR is called a Type "x" management ( based on reprimand..)and of course its the counter productive one!( the other one is type "y").
As mentioned before, the type of management in application in QR is called a Type "x" management ( based on reprimand..)and of course its the counter productive one!( the other one is type "y").
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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What really sadden me about QR is that they really just throw people aside as if they are nothing more than dog 
stepped into on the sidewalk. As said in an early post, fatigue is a problem and watch out if they change your roster while you are away on ops and put you on a course on your return, taking away a rest day. If you say no, because you are fatigued, you can say goodbye to your job. As happened recently to a certain 777 Capt.
It doesn't matter how much you appeal and show them the evidence that they are wrong, they just circle the wagons against you and use all the might of a big, " money isn't an issue" corporation and crush you.
stepped into on the sidewalk. As said in an early post, fatigue is a problem and watch out if they change your roster while you are away on ops and put you on a course on your return, taking away a rest day. If you say no, because you are fatigued, you can say goodbye to your job. As happened recently to a certain 777 Capt.It doesn't matter how much you appeal and show them the evidence that they are wrong, they just circle the wagons against you and use all the might of a big, " money isn't an issue" corporation and crush you.
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Still taking on experienced pilots?
I thought they were no longer after experienced aviators but now had their own CTC inspired 70 to 100h real flying then automated SIM MPL scheme - or was that just for locals?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Unfortunately ( For me ) I have first hand knowledge of how they treat people at QR. Not only from people I know personally who have be treated diabolically, but how I was treated. While on annual leave I visited my own doctor who referred me to a surgical consultant who then advised me I required a small but relatively serious operation. I wrote on two separate occasions to inform my line manager of my need to under go a surgical procedure, he elected not to respond. The procedure require a two week recovery period which was fine as I was only rostered for being contactable. Without any formal or informal notification, my pay and staff travel was stopped along with all other privileges which made it impossible for me to return to Doha. After three months of continuously writing to my line manage, senior manages and HR management to resolve any misunderstanding and asking to be able to return to Doha to continue with my career. They choose to ignore my correspondence, it was only after I wrote and got angry did I receive and acknowledgement, informing me that they did not appreciate threaten Emails and this is when I first learnt they terminated me retrospectively accusing me of absconding. The whole matter is a complete fabrication and utter nonsense without any substance to their accusation, to date they have not provided me with any evidence they have of my absconding. Whereas, I have all my correspondence and evidence to show that I did not abscond. I had a great career with QR, plus my commitments I had out there. All my documents both flying Surely these are Not the actions of someone planning to abscond. This has left me destitute and my flying career in tatters. I had recently a slim opportunity for work but was required to be type rated on a new a/c or pay up front for the training, which is £15,000.00 which I do have. The only peace of luck is my wife has managed to secure work which pays the mortgage, but that short term.
My children don't understand what is going on and why Daddy is not in Doha flying.
So, for reasons which will always remain unknown to you, you can fall foul of these people and it doesn't matter what you say or do, there is little or no chance of a just outcome.
If I hadn't had my operation at the time I did, I was likely to have been taken ill while on ops and therefore cause bigger problems to my own health as well as problems for scheduling. All I had wanted was to have my op and return to Doha and continue flying.
My children don't understand what is going on and why Daddy is not in Doha flying.
So, for reasons which will always remain unknown to you, you can fall foul of these people and it doesn't matter what you say or do, there is little or no chance of a just outcome.
If I hadn't had my operation at the time I did, I was likely to have been taken ill while on ops and therefore cause bigger problems to my own health as well as problems for scheduling. All I had wanted was to have my op and return to Doha and continue flying.
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sentosa1942,
Sounds like you will be better off no longer working for Qatar Airways. Appalling if true. Again, your health should be your first priority - there are other flying jobs out there.
Good luck.
Sounds like you will be better off no longer working for Qatar Airways. Appalling if true. Again, your health should be your first priority - there are other flying jobs out there.
Good luck.
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Having the two passports yes is ideal. What I have heard, when it is getting a little hot for some, they enter on their "other" passport as a tourist. Then if push comes to shove "see ya later".
Question is in that circumstance, goes without saying that you won't be welcomed back in Doha. What if you went to Dubai or Oman on holiday or tech stop. Would they send you on an all expenses paid one way ticket to Doha?
Question is in that circumstance, goes without saying that you won't be welcomed back in Doha. What if you went to Dubai or Oman on holiday or tech stop. Would they send you on an all expenses paid one way ticket to Doha?
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The varicity of sentosa's statements are accurate. There are numerous horror stories like this concerning the 5star Goat. Take the A320 FO (ex-raf fastjet) who was terminated because the Capt had a tail strike in a go around below 100' because of wind shear. Reason, no sink rate call.
Al Baker wanted them both fired before they even returned to Doha.
Al Baker wanted them both fired before they even returned to Doha.
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Counterpoint
Cannot dispute the difficulties some may encounter at Qatar Airways, but must say that since my arrival over one year ago I have been treated with respect and my wife and I have enjoyed living here. We have not encountered any untoward behaviour and are satisfied we made a good choice joining this airline.
The initial "bumps" have been ironed out with the only major issue the problem with accommodation. The expected villa did not materialize and we were left to fend for ourselves after a very short period of time. The allowance does not adequately cover the current modest housing so we must supplement with our salary.
"Training" is different from previously encountered. Once one understands that every device and simulator session is actually an exam rather than teaching session, it makes it much easier. Come prepared and things go smoothly.
This is a young company and issues that crop up must be approached calmly and stubbornly. Different cultures have different attitudes toward dealing with problems. This must be respected with perseverance and patience utilised to see it through to the end. One ongoing issue that is affecting many pilots from North America is outstanding still at over nine months but slow progress is being made.
Rosters do vary month to month. Some months have been trying, others very relaxing. Though I do work harder than from previous employment, it is not overwhelming by any means. The pilots I work with are, with very few exceptions, experienced, well trained, positive, and keen. The aircraft are well maintained and clean. The cabin staff, if an effort is made to bridge the ever present "divide", are great to work with and, more importantly, intelligent and well trained. Their youth limits their experience in handling some problems, but the CSDs are well equipped to handle most cabin situations.
Adapting to living in the Gulf takes some, but applying the same techniques as to the workplace works well. To those considering accepting a position with Qatar Airways, I would suggest that if you come with a positive attitude, patience, and a high degree of motivation, you will do well here. The managers here are not perfect and will make mistakes though I believe their attitude toward people management will evolve in a positive way. Cultural differences will be an ongoing challenge but as the airline matures, they should become less of an issue.
So far, happy to be employed by this growing airline.
The initial "bumps" have been ironed out with the only major issue the problem with accommodation. The expected villa did not materialize and we were left to fend for ourselves after a very short period of time. The allowance does not adequately cover the current modest housing so we must supplement with our salary.
"Training" is different from previously encountered. Once one understands that every device and simulator session is actually an exam rather than teaching session, it makes it much easier. Come prepared and things go smoothly.
This is a young company and issues that crop up must be approached calmly and stubbornly. Different cultures have different attitudes toward dealing with problems. This must be respected with perseverance and patience utilised to see it through to the end. One ongoing issue that is affecting many pilots from North America is outstanding still at over nine months but slow progress is being made.
Rosters do vary month to month. Some months have been trying, others very relaxing. Though I do work harder than from previous employment, it is not overwhelming by any means. The pilots I work with are, with very few exceptions, experienced, well trained, positive, and keen. The aircraft are well maintained and clean. The cabin staff, if an effort is made to bridge the ever present "divide", are great to work with and, more importantly, intelligent and well trained. Their youth limits their experience in handling some problems, but the CSDs are well equipped to handle most cabin situations.
Adapting to living in the Gulf takes some, but applying the same techniques as to the workplace works well. To those considering accepting a position with Qatar Airways, I would suggest that if you come with a positive attitude, patience, and a high degree of motivation, you will do well here. The managers here are not perfect and will make mistakes though I believe their attitude toward people management will evolve in a positive way. Cultural differences will be an ongoing challenge but as the airline matures, they should become less of an issue.
So far, happy to be employed by this growing airline.
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Counterpoint, I am seriously and without prejudice very glad things have worked out well for you and your wife with QR. But please remember, I too arrived in Qatar just over a year ago with an equal amount of positive attitude, patience and extremely high degree of motivation, if not more. I was Very excited to be flying new modern fleet of aircraft. I encountered the same initials problems as you did, but on the whole you are left to sort issues out yourself. Be prepared for the bureaucracy, and be prepared if you should for any reason have a deference of opinion with one of the managers. The culture is different and yes we must adapt, but it certain is a BLAME BLAME culture and that makes for possible problems, as we all know ! However, it wasn't until I went on my annual leave and underwent a surgical operation that things went terrible wrong and I was treated appallingly. I am still in shock at what they did. I still believe that I should be out there working not looking for work. We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. What happened to me is 100% factual, I just hope it doesn't happen to you.
Good luck and keep enjoying your flying with QR as I am sure you will
Good luck and keep enjoying your flying with QR as I am sure you will
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Management shortsight
Sentosa:
I have heard your story from another source and fully agree that somewhere in the system, someone has been inexcusably derelict in their duty to Qatar Airways. Your case has been discussed frequently among the pilot group and some queries have been made as to how this could have come about.
Qatar Airways is not the first airline to make such a blunder, nor the last. For those considering joining, the fact that there is virtually no protection from persecution is a consideration. Unions or associations (definition by management) are not tolerated. The only very limited protection is the desire to keep the fleet airbourne.
Your case is a definite warning flag of what CAN happen here. It is not, I hope, the norm. Hope you have been able to secure both a better position and better treatment elsewhere. Those of us left here will inquire as to how a Human Resources department could have bunged up your case so badly. Hopefully some of the response will filter through to my lowly level (line pilot).
I have heard your story from another source and fully agree that somewhere in the system, someone has been inexcusably derelict in their duty to Qatar Airways. Your case has been discussed frequently among the pilot group and some queries have been made as to how this could have come about.
Qatar Airways is not the first airline to make such a blunder, nor the last. For those considering joining, the fact that there is virtually no protection from persecution is a consideration. Unions or associations (definition by management) are not tolerated. The only very limited protection is the desire to keep the fleet airbourne.
Your case is a definite warning flag of what CAN happen here. It is not, I hope, the norm. Hope you have been able to secure both a better position and better treatment elsewhere. Those of us left here will inquire as to how a Human Resources department could have bunged up your case so badly. Hopefully some of the response will filter through to my lowly level (line pilot).
Last edited by Flytdeck; 30th Mar 2013 at 10:59.
, SO fast track
, bla bla bla, etc..
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Riders of Camels don't metamorphise into anything more cultured/decent/developed/admirable courtesy of money.
If y'all bear that in mind it should help with the initial decision whether to go there or not.
In case of disbelief, please substitute "racism" with "ability to see reality".
If y'all bear that in mind it should help with the initial decision whether to go there or not.
In case of disbelief, please substitute "racism" with "ability to see reality".
Last edited by captplaystation; 9th Apr 2013 at 19:15.
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You are not in Kansas anymore
Just to reiterate for those considering a move to Qatar Airways. Direct Entry Captains (DEC) likely have an easier time of it than those arriving as F/Os. The training is quite strict, often resembling ongoing examination rather than training. Most survive.
Just as you might encounter in any airline, there are those who are good to work with, and those who could use, shall we say, some remedial social interaction training
. We are living in a different culture and if one is patient, can adapt (except, possibly, to the driving). There are always those few who consider themselves above us "little people" and act accordingly. Unfortunately, they are the ones that stand out and tend to stick in our memories.
It has not been all that long since arriving to work here, but though there have been some challenges and frustrations, have found the working environment rewarding and enjoyable. The primary consideration to the quality of your life here will be your attitude. Come ready to exploit the good and discard the bad and it will be much better than expressed by others in this forum.
If things go sideways, however, be prepared for a hard landing. From what I have seen, second chances are rare unless one is willing to readily admit to an error (even if it may not be yours). For some, even this may not suffice to resuscitate ones job.
Might have to review this post in a year or so.
Just as you might encounter in any airline, there are those who are good to work with, and those who could use, shall we say, some remedial social interaction training
. We are living in a different culture and if one is patient, can adapt (except, possibly, to the driving). There are always those few who consider themselves above us "little people" and act accordingly. Unfortunately, they are the ones that stand out and tend to stick in our memories.It has not been all that long since arriving to work here, but though there have been some challenges and frustrations, have found the working environment rewarding and enjoyable. The primary consideration to the quality of your life here will be your attitude. Come ready to exploit the good and discard the bad and it will be much better than expressed by others in this forum.
If things go sideways, however, be prepared for a hard landing. From what I have seen, second chances are rare unless one is willing to readily admit to an error (even if it may not be yours). For some, even this may not suffice to resuscitate ones job.
Might have to review this post in a year or so.
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I realise that some poor souls simply have no choice but to join Qatar - family pressures, no other jobs etc. They have my deepest sympathy and I wish them well in their futures. However, the root cause of many pilots' problems at Qatar is a real lack of a reality check prior to going. There are innumerable warnings on the likes of PPRuNe about what you are getting into, but somehow people think it really cannot be that bad. It is the same mentality that some juries in the UK have when faced with some ghastly monster who has just raped 10 women and chopped them up - they cannot bring themselves to believe that someone can be that evil so they start believing the defence line that the chap who did it is really a good guy who had some problems at home, had a bad childhood etc. The frightening thing is that the juries buy it hook, line and sinker and find the guy mad rather than bad. It is exactly the same with Qatar - there are countless tales about Al Bakar (is that how you spell it?) and his totally deranged way of carrying on, but no one wants to believe it is true. The problem is that it is true and the man is nasty, unpleasant and crazy with it. Yet no one believes it until one day they find themselves victims of the guy and suddenly wake up and smell the coffee. Sadly it is all too late and their fate is sealed. May I therefore make a suggestion? Do not go there unless you have absolutely no other choice on this earth, rather than find out the hard way. It really is not rocket science.